I'm looking at a new campaign and I want to do something I haven't done before; A high-speed Fighter with a good AC. At the moment, I'm thinking of a V-Human with the Defensive Duelist Feat and having him fight with leather armor, a shield, and a sword or spear. With 16 Dex I'd be at 16 AC at level 1, 18 with my Reaction. Without piling on heavy armor or magic items, what else can I add to this? Here's what I have so far:
1) Studded Leather (likely available after our first adventure if not sooner) would be AC 17.
2) A 2-level dip into Monk would give me 2 Ki Points to spend on Patient Defense. Sure, it's only for 2 rounds, but it's Disadvantage for an enemy to hit me and I get them back on a Short Rest.
Or...
3) If I can chunk down 750 gp and get half-plate, I can get Medium Armor Master at lvl 4 and now I have AC 20 and no Stealth issues (because I don't want to be That Guy).
This is where my ideas end. AC 20 at lvl 4 with no Stealth problems seems good to me. I'm thinking that I would take Shield Master for lvl 6.
I would appreciate input as to anything else I can do by lvl 8 (after that it seems kinda late in the character's career). The only caveats are no magic items, no Heavy Armor, and it can't be something someone else in the party helps with like a spell or ability.
You could try Kensei Monk. You could get AC 16 at 1st, and go VHum for Defensive Duelist as you did with your fighter. Once you get to third you'll have more movement, Ki, Agile Parry for more AC, Deflect Missiles, Ki Fueled Attack and proficiency in Longbow and Rapier. At fourth, you can get 2 more DEX for better to hit, damage and AC. From there you will just get more and more mobile and you can pump AC with DEX, WIS and potentially protective magical items. Just with 20 DEX, 16 WIS, Defensive Duelist and Agile Parry, you will have AC 22.
You could try Kensei Monk. You could get AC 16 at 1st, and go VHum for Defensive Duelist as you did with your fighter. Once you get to third you'll have more movement, Ki, Agile Parry for more AC, Deflect Missiles, Ki Fueled Attack and proficiency in Longbow and Rapier. At fourth, you can get 2 more DEX for better to hit, damage and AC. From there you will just get more and more mobile and you can pump AC with DEX, WIS and potentially protective magical items. Just with 20 DEX, 16 WIS, Defensive Duelist and Agile Parry, you will have AC 22.
Perhaps not optimal, but flavourful.
I had forgotten that the Monk has a distinct advantage over my Fighter idea in that after a Fighter hits Dex 20, has a shield, is wearing armor etc unless they get a magic item or take Feats they're capped out. Since the AC for Monks and Barbs is based on TWO different stats, after you top out in one, you can begin work on the other.
Monks, especially Kensei, definitely fulfill the fantasy of a low armored fast fighter better I'd say, but that doesn't mean Fighters can't do it well too. Monks have the distinct problem of having a lower hit dice than Fighters and being absolutely dependent of short rests to replenish their Ki points or they're stuck at only two attacks (plus one unarmed bonus attack) and no Patient Defense or Ki-Fueled Attack. I think in these kinds of situations it's best to directly compare what each build would look like.
As Kensei Monk at level 8 (since you mentioned that as kinda cap for this topic) you'd get:
1d8 hit dice
two weapon attacks, one unarmed bonus attack without Ki (or a 1/2 split for +2AC) or
three weapon attacks (Deft Strike + Ki Fueled Attack) for 2 Ki (or a 2/1 split for +2AC)
Unarmored Defense that relies on WIS to come anywhere close to medium armor with shield (maybe not always a stat you want depending on the character in mind). At 16 DEX and let's say 16 WIS you'd only barely be at 16AC
Bonus Action Dodge/Disengage as long as you have Ki, though it'd significantly drop your damage output
more movementspeed! (+15ft at level 8)
No heavy or special weapons
catching arrows (and throwing them back if you spend Ki)
less fall damage
action self-healing as long as you have at least 2 Ki points
Stunning Strike
magical attacks without needing a magical weapon (rarely if ever a problem in my experience)
Evasion
can cleanse yourself of charmed and frightened condition with just an action at no further cost
Meanwhile a level 8 Fighter would have:
1d10 hit dice
two weapon attacks (without bonus action)
medium armor and shield (as you said an AC of 19 with just half-plate and 14 DEX already)
access to heavy and special weapons if you desire (though likely not since this is a DEX based character)
a Fighting Style for even more AC or more damage
a short rest bonus action healing
Action Surge for a one-time burst of super speed (in terms of attacking)
an additional ASI to boost your AC further or take another fancy feat
(I have no idea what subclass you have in mind so I'll just go with the good 'ol Battle Master here)
5 maneuvers and 5 superiority dice with a DC that only relies on your DEX (or STR)
(I won't go through all the maneuvers here so I'll just pick some that I think would fit the character concept)
Evasive Footwork: while moving you get +1d8 AC (so mostly against opportunity attacks)
Feinting Attack: uses your BA and you get advantage against a target within 5ft for your next attack this turn. If it hits you deal +1d8 damage
Lunging Attack: Increase the reach of your weapon by 5ft and deal +1d8 damage for one attack
Parry: Use your reaction to reduce the damage by 1d8+DEX modifier
Precision Attack: +1d8 to your hit roll (you can make the decision after making the roll)
Quick toss: throw a weapon with throw property with a bonus action. +1d8 damage
Riposte: use reaction to attack a creature that missed you with a melee attack. +1d8 damage
(there are other good picks but those fit a speedy fighter best I think)
As for how high you can push your AC for both at level 8, assuming we start at 16 for DEX and 14 for WIS (for the Monk):
For the Monk it'd be AC17, +2 for Agile Parry, and BA Dodge which equals roughly +5 on average = 24 but at cost of your damage output (only one weapon attack and one unarmed attack) and relying on a resource. We put both ASIs we get into DEX to push it to 20 and that's it. Note that it's probably smarter to use one ASI to get the mobile feat to be less dependent on your Ki consuming BA Disengage which would also allow you to use your BA for more damage again. Monks aren't meant to stay in melee with their small hit dice and rather low AC, they're more like Rogues in that regard. However it'd drop your potential AC by 1 point down to 16/23.
For the Fighter it'd be AC 21, +3 for Defensive Duelist = 24. We put one ASI we get into DEX to push it to 18 and use the other two to get Medium Armor Master and Defensive Duelist. Half-Plate and Shield. The final point of AC comes from the Defense fighting style.
So overall, the Fighter is a LOT more durable than the Monk. On the other hand the Monk is going to have more attacks, is faster and more slippery as long as you have Ki points left. How good it feels to play a Monk in combat largely depends on how many combat encounters there are over the course of a day and if there are several then also on how many short rests your party takes. Very similar to playing a Warlock in that regard. As long as you have Ki you are somewhere between a Rogue (very mobile and slippery but not super durable) and Fighter (lots of attacks) but once you run out of Ki points and didn't take the Mobile feat you're going to have a rough time.
Also before I forget, keep in mind that spears are unfortunately NOT finesse weapons. You need STR to use them properly and they don't apply for Defensive Duelist. I really wish they were finesse weapons but WotC apparently thought otherwise. On the bright side though, you can still use them with DEX as Monk if you make them your monk weapon (still no Defensive Duelist though).
Last but not least I've been going through a similar process recently as I was looking at the Psi Warrior and thought about making a lightly armored DEX based character with it (coincidentally also as a polearm user until I noticed once again that not even spears nor quarterstaffs are finesse). Since I'm currently already playing a Monk I came to the conclusion to put that idea on ice for now since it would feel too similar and I already have more than enough other characters in my backlog anyway (didn't stop me from creating the character though lol).
Thank you for the excellent breakdown as well as the reminder regarding the spear and the quarterstaff not being finesse weapons. This is a very good assessment of my idea and a clear example that I need to both talk to the DM and go back to the drawing board.
So overall, the Fighter is a LOT more durable than the Monk. On the other hand the Monk is going to have more attacks, is faster and more slippery as long as you have Ki points left. How good it feels to play a Monk in combat largely depends on how many combat encounters there are over the course of a day and if there are several then also on how many short rests your party takes. Very similar to playing a Warlock in that regard. As long as you have Ki you are somewhere between a Rogue (very mobile and slippery but not super durable) and Fighter (lots of attacks) but once you run out of Ki points and didn't take the Mobile feat you're going to have a rough time.
I don't disagree with your analysis, but I want to point out that fighter is only a lot more durable than monk with regard to attacks. The two are a lot closer in terms of dealing with save based effects but I would have to put monk ahead of fighter for those, especially once you get to higher level stuff where the saves start to matter more.
For a fast fighter, I’d also suggest the mobile feat, maybe even instead of defensive duelist. Run if with your extra speed, stab them, then run back out without provoking OA.
Fighters have 7 ASIs rather than 5, which allows you to fit in stat improvements and feats, while the Monk has only 5, and their MADs means that likely 4 of those will be for boosting dexterity and wisdom.
And since Fighters only care about one stat, in your case dexterity, you can boost that to 20, and then spend the remaining five on feats to increase their damage output.
Mobility, and Medium Armor Master are good options. Half Plate and MAM will give you 20AC with shield, and of course there're far more magical armors in the game than there are ways to increase Monk AC.
Monk has significant damage potential, with the free bonus unarmed attack, and option for Flurry of Blows, but that won't necessarily compensate for the increased durability the Fighter gets.
And as a dexterity Fighter you could take the Archery fighting style and be an archer as well as fighting in melee.
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I'm looking at a new campaign and I want to do something I haven't done before; A high-speed Fighter with a good AC. At the moment, I'm thinking of a V-Human with the Defensive Duelist Feat and having him fight with leather armor, a shield, and a sword or spear. With 16 Dex I'd be at 16 AC at level 1, 18 with my Reaction. Without piling on heavy armor or magic items, what else can I add to this? Here's what I have so far:
1) Studded Leather (likely available after our first adventure if not sooner) would be AC 17.
2) A 2-level dip into Monk would give me 2 Ki Points to spend on Patient Defense. Sure, it's only for 2 rounds, but it's Disadvantage for an enemy to hit me and I get them back on a Short Rest.
Or...
3) If I can chunk down 750 gp and get half-plate, I can get Medium Armor Master at lvl 4 and now I have AC 20 and no Stealth issues (because I don't want to be That Guy).
This is where my ideas end. AC 20 at lvl 4 with no Stealth problems seems good to me. I'm thinking that I would take Shield Master for lvl 6.
I would appreciate input as to anything else I can do by lvl 8 (after that it seems kinda late in the character's career). The only caveats are no magic items, no Heavy Armor, and it can't be something someone else in the party helps with like a spell or ability.
You could try Kensei Monk. You could get AC 16 at 1st, and go VHum for Defensive Duelist as you did with your fighter. Once you get to third you'll have more movement, Ki, Agile Parry for more AC, Deflect Missiles, Ki Fueled Attack and proficiency in Longbow and Rapier. At fourth, you can get 2 more DEX for better to hit, damage and AC. From there you will just get more and more mobile and you can pump AC with DEX, WIS and potentially protective magical items. Just with 20 DEX, 16 WIS, Defensive Duelist and Agile Parry, you will have AC 22.
Perhaps not optimal, but flavourful.
I had forgotten that the Monk has a distinct advantage over my Fighter idea in that after a Fighter hits Dex 20, has a shield, is wearing armor etc unless they get a magic item or take Feats they're capped out. Since the AC for Monks and Barbs is based on TWO different stats, after you top out in one, you can begin work on the other.
Thank you for the excellent breakdown as well as the reminder regarding the spear and the quarterstaff not being finesse weapons. This is a very good assessment of my idea and a clear example that I need to both talk to the DM and go back to the drawing board.
I don't disagree with your analysis, but I want to point out that fighter is only a lot more durable than monk with regard to attacks. The two are a lot closer in terms of dealing with save based effects but I would have to put monk ahead of fighter for those, especially once you get to higher level stuff where the saves start to matter more.
For a fast fighter, I’d also suggest the mobile feat, maybe even instead of defensive duelist. Run if with your extra speed, stab them, then run back out without provoking OA.
Fighters have 7 ASIs rather than 5, which allows you to fit in stat improvements and feats, while the Monk has only 5, and their MADs means that likely 4 of those will be for boosting dexterity and wisdom.
And since Fighters only care about one stat, in your case dexterity, you can boost that to 20, and then spend the remaining five on feats to increase their damage output.
Mobility, and Medium Armor Master are good options. Half Plate and MAM will give you 20AC with shield, and of course there're far more magical armors in the game than there are ways to increase Monk AC.
Monk has significant damage potential, with the free bonus unarmed attack, and option for Flurry of Blows, but that won't necessarily compensate for the increased durability the Fighter gets.
And as a dexterity Fighter you could take the Archery fighting style and be an archer as well as fighting in melee.