I'm making a Dart Throwing build for a lv1-10 Strixhaven campaign and I'm curious for a non-Nova round if it would be better to throw a Net or just another dart?
How are you taking Elven Accuracy at level 1? Some house rule you haven't told us about?
Darts are better with Archery than with Thrown Weapon Fighting - and so are nets. Thrown Weapon Fighting is ideal for javelins.
Hunter's Mark directly contradicts Quick Toss.
If you want to optimize around a net, you need to be a Beast Master, not a Gloom Stalker, so when you throw your net during your Action you can also have your Beast attack.
Goading Attack is generally Menacing Attack but worse.
Okay, I’m not quite sure we are both picking up the same stick here, my bad!
1. Yes my DM is generously allowing me to take Elven Accuracy (pseudo house rule, as racial requirements have always been DM subject). Gunner was my alternative in order to attack from 5ft, but I’d rather suffer the opportunity attack/throw a Net and hope.
2. I’m getting the Archery Fighting Style from Ranger 2, yes it is delayed… but it is efficient. Other iterations of this build had me pick it up via Feat (but I think this is the best version, I did much Maths). Thrown Weapon Fighting is necessary, even if Quick Toss allows you to draw another weapon (too many attacks, not to mention subsequent turns)
3. Both Bless or Hunter’s Mark are for if I get chance before combat to prepare (Which may not be too optimistic, as I will be a Gloomstalker with Expertise in Stealth).
4. I have Quick Toss for the Bonus Action, so it would be better to go Ranger 2 or just the Feat for Archery if Gloomstalker didn’t synergise so well for a burst/nova damage build… With then a decent sustain pattern after - hence my question :-)
5. Good point with Goading Attack, yeah I may replace that with Menacing.
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
If you attack with a Net you don't get any more attacks that turn
"When you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to attack with a net, you can make only one attack regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make."
If you attack with a Net you don't get any more attacks that turn
"When you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to attack with a net, you can make only one attack regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make."
Untrue. It only affects the Action, Bonus Action or Reaction that was used to attack with the Net. For example if you use a Bonus Action to attack with a Net you can use your Action to make however many attacks (not with a Net) your character can normally make. The same is true if you use your Action to attack with the Net you can still use your Bonus Action or Reaction to make attacks provided you have abilities that allow it, you can also use Action Surge to make attacks as it is considered a separate Action.
Nets are pretty powerful and while it is not always a good idea to throw it, when the enemy has a relatively low AC and no way to deal deal slasing damage it is usually a good idea.
An even better way to use it though is with the catapult spell. Line up 2 enemies and catapult your net, if the first one saves it goes by him and the second one needs to save or get hit by it, both taking damage and getting restrained. This is by far the best 1st level spell when used this way.
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I'm making a Dart Throwing build for a lv1-10 Strixhaven campaign and I'm curious for a non-Nova round if it would be better to throw a Net or just another dart?
Ekki, the Thorn Bush
When to Always use a Net: When using Action Surge or against Resistance to Non-Magic Weapons.
Lv1-10 Build:
Nova Damage vs CR
Fighter 1 - Thrown Weapon Fighting
Fighter 2 - Action Surge
Fighter 3 - Battlemaster: Quick Toss, Precision Attack & Distracting Attack
Fighter 4 - Feat: Sharpshooter
Fighter 5 - Extra Attack
Ranger 1 - Expertise (Stealth)
Ranger 2 - Archery & Spells: Hunter’s Mark, Silvery Barbs
Ranger 3 - Gloomstalker (Huge) + Absorb Elements
Fighter 6 - ASI: 20 Dexterity (& 1AC)
Fighter 7 - +1 Superiority Die (5 rounds/SR) + Pushing Attack & Goading Attack
Technical/Math Details:
Chance to Hit = ( ( 21 – ( Target’s AC – Player’s Attack Bonus ) / 20 ) * 100
Elven Accuracy = Miss Percentage Cubed
Enemy average AC per CR
Normal/Sustain Turn - Need help
To hits for average CR AC from lv4-10 (Taking Sharpshooter at Level 4, before that Net is situational and should be used with an Action)
Principles
So should I use a Net to gain Advantage for non-Nova rounds?
Edit: Actually, I figured out the Maths (using Fighter 5 as an example:)
BA Net: 65% success or (Bless 77.5%)
Hit +2 v.s 15AC = 40% (Adv 78%) (Bless 90.25%)
Damage: 1d4+16 (x4) = 74
DPR = 57.72 (Bless 66.79)
If throwing a Net has a 65% success rate, then what does the damage look like the other 35% of the time?
74 x 0.4 = 29.6 (still better to use sharpshooter, as without it is 22.1)
What would the expected damage of all first turns be then, if taking a normative approach?
(57.72 x 65) + (29.6 x 35)
———————————— = 47.88
100
What can I conclude from that? That yes using a Net is for sure worth it on my nova turn… But on a normal turn at lv5?
BA Net: 65% success
Hit +2 v.s 15AC = 40% (Adv 78%)
Damage: 1d4+16 (x2) = 37
DPR = 28.86
Baseline (three non Sharpshooter attacks): 19.5 DPR
Comparison (Sharpshooter, no Net): 24 DPR
(28.86 x 65) + (14.8 x 35)
———————————— = 23.94 (Wow!)
100
Result: at Level 5, statistically it would be better to chance it without a Net by 0.06 damage
Okay, I’m not quite sure we are both picking up the same stick here, my bad!
1. Yes my DM is generously allowing me to take Elven Accuracy (pseudo house rule, as racial requirements have always been DM subject). Gunner was my alternative in order to attack from 5ft, but I’d rather suffer the opportunity attack/throw a Net and hope.
2. I’m getting the Archery Fighting Style from Ranger 2, yes it is delayed… but it is efficient. Other iterations of this build had me pick it up via Feat (but I think this is the best version, I did much Maths). Thrown Weapon Fighting is necessary, even if Quick Toss allows you to draw another weapon (too many attacks, not to mention subsequent turns)
3. Both Bless or Hunter’s Mark are for if I get chance before combat to prepare (Which may not be too optimistic, as I will be a Gloomstalker with Expertise in Stealth).
4. I have Quick Toss for the Bonus Action, so it would be better to go Ranger 2 or just the Feat for Archery if Gloomstalker didn’t synergise so well for a burst/nova damage build… With then a decent sustain pattern after - hence my question :-)
5. Good point with Goading Attack, yeah I may replace that with Menacing.
If you attack with a Net you don't get any more attacks that turn
"When you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to attack with a net, you can make only one attack regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make."
Untrue. It only affects the Action, Bonus Action or Reaction that was used to attack with the Net. For example if you use a Bonus Action to attack with a Net you can use your Action to make however many attacks (not with a Net) your character can normally make. The same is true if you use your Action to attack with the Net you can still use your Bonus Action or Reaction to make attacks provided you have abilities that allow it, you can also use Action Surge to make attacks as it is considered a separate Action.
Nets are pretty powerful and while it is not always a good idea to throw it, when the enemy has a relatively low AC and no way to deal deal slasing damage it is usually a good idea.
An even better way to use it though is with the catapult spell. Line up 2 enemies and catapult your net, if the first one saves it goes by him and the second one needs to save or get hit by it, both taking damage and getting restrained. This is by far the best 1st level spell when used this way.