I was looking at the way the Echo Knight was worded and had a thought. "When you take the Attack action on your turn, any attack you make with that action can originate from your space or the echo’s space. You make this choice for each attack." And then I thought back to how two-weapon fighting is worded. "When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand." It uses a different action that isn't labeled as the Attack action. Manifest Echo has additional wording for Opportunity Attacks, but not bonus actions. So RAW, you couldn't make your off-hand attack from your echo's space, only from with your real body, which feels a little weird. And it applies to other things too: if you're a Longtooth Shifter your echo apparently can't bite people, or if you multiclass as Monk your extra punch HAS to come from your real body.
Strangely, you COULD probably make an extra attack from Haste with the echo, since it uses a modified Attack action.
How would y'all rule this at a table? Flavor-wise it KIND OF makes sense. Most of these come from having another weapon on hand that can move quickly, in the same motion in even, so you might not be able to split them up in the moment. Not sure I feel great about it though.
Note: I am NOT asking about Unleash Incarnation, or whether a Bonus Action attack could trigger it. I'm only wondering about Manifest Echo and it's reach.
Correct, Two-Weapon Fighting is not possible through the Echo's position because it is a bonus action and is NOT the Attack action.
Bonus action attacks cannot go through the echo.
and frankly, most of the time, that's how I rule it. stick to the RAW.
THAT SAID, if a character, for some reason, is lacking despite being a Fighter, I might allow them to do it anyway.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Yes, Echo Knight is strong as a Fighter solo build using two-handed weapons. It does not play well with two-weapon fighting builds or most Ranger multi-classes precisely because the Attack action is not a bonus action (and the echo does not benefit much when mixing with a ranged weapon as primary).
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I was looking at the way the Echo Knight was worded and had a thought. "When you take the Attack action on your turn, any attack you make with that action can originate from your space or the echo’s space. You make this choice for each attack." And then I thought back to how two-weapon fighting is worded. "When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand." It uses a different action that isn't labeled as the Attack action. Manifest Echo has additional wording for Opportunity Attacks, but not bonus actions. So RAW, you couldn't make your off-hand attack from your echo's space, only from with your real body, which feels a little weird. And it applies to other things too: if you're a Longtooth Shifter your echo apparently can't bite people, or if you multiclass as Monk your extra punch HAS to come from your real body.
Strangely, you COULD probably make an extra attack from Haste with the echo, since it uses a modified Attack action.
How would y'all rule this at a table? Flavor-wise it KIND OF makes sense. Most of these come from having another weapon on hand that can move quickly, in the same motion in even, so you might not be able to split them up in the moment. Not sure I feel great about it though.
Note: I am NOT asking about Unleash Incarnation, or whether a Bonus Action attack could trigger it. I'm only wondering about Manifest Echo and it's reach.
Correct, Two-Weapon Fighting is not possible through the Echo's position because it is a bonus action and is NOT the Attack action.
Bonus action attacks cannot go through the echo.
and frankly, most of the time, that's how I rule it. stick to the RAW.
THAT SAID, if a character, for some reason, is lacking despite being a Fighter, I might allow them to do it anyway.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Yes, Echo Knight is strong as a Fighter solo build using two-handed weapons. It does not play well with two-weapon fighting builds or most Ranger multi-classes precisely because the Attack action is not a bonus action (and the echo does not benefit much when mixing with a ranged weapon as primary).