So, there is a thread on the Arcane Gish, and when I think on it, I realized we have 7 official class/subclass that do this, and one semi-official subclass.
So I was thinking, what we really need are other options, ie Divine melee & Primal Melee options. ie the the Berserker Priest who gives party buffs by singing, while raging, and can heal the party after battle, the Druid who darts in and out of melee with a rapier while casting healing and buffs, a Monk who can actually cast spells (the 4 elements is not really a caster, it's an almost caster)
BTW Vindicators were a Dwarf kit (Fighter/Priest) from AD&D in the complete Dwarf handbook, and was intended to be the Dwarf answer to the Human only Paladin. It was more like a Barbarian (In Full Armor) Bard than a paladin, as they would sing to boost the party as they raged across the battlefield, and then would do healing and priestly things out of combat. I use to play one back 20+ years ago, and I loved the concept of how they worked. And it's not really a thing in 5th edition. You can sort of pull it off with a Priest/Barbarian as long ass you don't use any concentration spells. But it's an idea that would be nice for a Subclass.
But also where is the Harrier Ranger subclass. ie the Extra Mobile dual wielding spell casting ranger who is in and out of combat (think swashbuckler rogue with spells)
so discus, more Divine and Primal melee caster options.
I love Dwarfs. I love Clerics. I loved the old Dwarf Handbook and this Kit is fantastic in its imagery. You probably couldn't make a subclass that appeals to me more than this one. So I would definitely love to see it!
One of the issues with "more divine/primal spellswords" is that the Paladin is already the best class in D&D. It does everything. It Smites, it can Spell Strike with "[Word] Smite"-type spells, it heals, it has excellent durability, it has fantastic saves, it's a half-caster with a bevy of unique-to-it spells...the Paladin is so phenomenal a package that it's very difficult to figure out what other design space there is for a Divine Spellsword. The Vindicator dwarf is sorta-semi-theoretically covered by the Zealot barbarian, which is not a spellcaster so I know it doesn't count, but barbarians can't be spellcasters soo...... And turning a cleric into a melee-centric character generally just makes it a worse-than paladin. Not to say it can't be done, because of course it can be done, but you won't be able to make "melee cleric" into anything remotely as effective as a Paladin.
Ranger is less omnicompetent and oppressively good, but the Tasha-compliant model is actually one of the better classes in D&D, and the One D&D version currently available for preview is far and away the strongest Expert class and could easily stand amongst the top of the pile when compared to R5e classes. The 1DD ranger is almost as good as the R5e paladin, which makes it a near-ideal blend of Blade and Branch (Magic).
That's why you see so many "Arcane Gish" threads and not many Divine/Primal Spellsword threads - the paladin and ranger do divine/primal spellblade correctly, and thus they speak to the class fantasy people want from spellblades. None of the existing "Arcane Gish" subclasses come within a country mile of the performance of the Paladin, and most of them aren't really up to the ranger's par either. It's honestly infuriating - the paladin is so outrageously powerful, so perfectly tuned to being the Ultimate Spellblade, that it seems unreal Wizards manages to **** up so badly with all the other 'Arcane Gish' options they keep trying to do. They clearly know how to do this, so why do they keep feeding us cheap Dollar General knockoff garbage when we've all told them a billion times that what we want is an Arcane equivalent to the Paladin?
The problem with the arcane characters is the arcane spell lists.
How many healing spells do they have at first level? Second?
It would basically be a dual class character with new spells and two feats in order to equal a paladin.
There are some plenty good spells in the arcane list. Sure you don't get healing spells but you get fireball, shield etc.
I think the big thing would be trying to find a 'spell strike' mechanic that isn't just copied from paladin smite spells.
Honestly though I think I'd more prefer something like an arcane archer or battlemaster type class where the magic part of the gish comes not from a standard spell list, but form unique abilities they can choose form to trigger on their weapon attacks.
Just to note, Laserllama’s alternate bard is a half-caster, and if you choose the skald tradition, you get extra attack, so I’d say that if your DM allows it, it seems to be pretty much what you’re looking for. Sorry to necro by exactly a year.
So, there is a thread on the Arcane Gish, and when I think on it, I realized we have 7 official class/subclass that do this, and one semi-official subclass.
Eldritch Knight (Int), Bladesinger (Int), Hexblade (Chr), Bard (Chr), Arcane Trickster (Int), War Magic (Int), Artificer (Int), Profane Soul* (Int or Wis)
So I was thinking, what we really need are other options, ie Divine melee & Primal Melee options. ie the the Berserker Priest who gives party buffs by singing, while raging, and can heal the party after battle, the Druid who darts in and out of melee with a rapier while casting healing and buffs, a Monk who can actually cast spells (the 4 elements is not really a caster, it's an almost caster)
BTW Vindicators were a Dwarf kit (Fighter/Priest) from AD&D in the complete Dwarf handbook, and was intended to be the Dwarf answer to the Human only Paladin. It was more like a Barbarian (In Full Armor) Bard than a paladin, as they would sing to boost the party as they raged across the battlefield, and then would do healing and priestly things out of combat. I use to play one back 20+ years ago, and I loved the concept of how they worked. And it's not really a thing in 5th edition. You can sort of pull it off with a Priest/Barbarian as long ass you don't use any concentration spells. But it's an idea that would be nice for a Subclass.
But also where is the Harrier Ranger subclass. ie the Extra Mobile dual wielding spell casting ranger who is in and out of combat (think swashbuckler rogue with spells)
so discus, more Divine and Primal melee caster options.
I love Dwarfs. I love Clerics. I loved the old Dwarf Handbook and this Kit is fantastic in its imagery. You probably couldn't make a subclass that appeals to me more than this one. So I would definitely love to see it!
One of the issues with "more divine/primal spellswords" is that the Paladin is already the best class in D&D. It does everything. It Smites, it can Spell Strike with "[Word] Smite"-type spells, it heals, it has excellent durability, it has fantastic saves, it's a half-caster with a bevy of unique-to-it spells...the Paladin is so phenomenal a package that it's very difficult to figure out what other design space there is for a Divine Spellsword. The Vindicator dwarf is sorta-semi-theoretically covered by the Zealot barbarian, which is not a spellcaster so I know it doesn't count, but barbarians can't be spellcasters soo...... And turning a cleric into a melee-centric character generally just makes it a worse-than paladin. Not to say it can't be done, because of course it can be done, but you won't be able to make "melee cleric" into anything remotely as effective as a Paladin.
Ranger is less omnicompetent and oppressively good, but the Tasha-compliant model is actually one of the better classes in D&D, and the One D&D version currently available for preview is far and away the strongest Expert class and could easily stand amongst the top of the pile when compared to R5e classes. The 1DD ranger is almost as good as the R5e paladin, which makes it a near-ideal blend of Blade and Branch (Magic).
That's why you see so many "Arcane Gish" threads and not many Divine/Primal Spellsword threads - the paladin and ranger do divine/primal spellblade correctly, and thus they speak to the class fantasy people want from spellblades. None of the existing "Arcane Gish" subclasses come within a country mile of the performance of the Paladin, and most of them aren't really up to the ranger's par either. It's honestly infuriating - the paladin is so outrageously powerful, so perfectly tuned to being the Ultimate Spellblade, that it seems unreal Wizards manages to **** up so badly with all the other 'Arcane Gish' options they keep trying to do. They clearly know how to do this, so why do they keep feeding us cheap Dollar General knockoff garbage when we've all told them a billion times that what we want is an Arcane equivalent to the Paladin?
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The problem with the arcane characters is the arcane spell lists.
How many healing spells do they have at first level? Second?
It would basically be a dual class character with new spells and two feats in order to equal a paladin.
There are some plenty good spells in the arcane list. Sure you don't get healing spells but you get fireball, shield etc.
I think the big thing would be trying to find a 'spell strike' mechanic that isn't just copied from paladin smite spells.
Honestly though I think I'd more prefer something like an arcane archer or battlemaster type class where the magic part of the gish comes not from a standard spell list, but form unique abilities they can choose form to trigger on their weapon attacks.
Just to note, Laserllama’s alternate bard is a half-caster, and if you choose the skald tradition, you get extra attack, so I’d say that if your DM allows it, it seems to be pretty much what you’re looking for. Sorry to necro by exactly a year.