"... At such a time, the beholder's dream-birthing creates a beholder hive -- a group "newborns" that are identical to its own shape but smaller."
I have a fascination with many creatures of D&D: Drow, Mind Flayers, Rust Monsters, Ankhegs, Beholders, Shambling Mounds, etc. All such creatures have a stat block of sorts to allow me to run it in a campaign, including stat blocks for subclasses. Within beholders, we have the Eye Tyrant and Solitary Beholder, both using the same stat block, Death Tyrant, and the Beholder Kin (Gazers and Spectators) get a stat block of their own. But Volo's Guide to Monsters describes yet another form of Beholders: a Beholder Hive.
Essentially a Beholder can dream into existence a "hive" of smaller (nearly) identical "newborn" beholders (with 3 to 10 individuals). The new smaller beholders co-exist with the original. Despite this I actually want to include a Beholder Hive without an original, just the hive on its own.
The problem is, a Beholder Hive has no stat block (of which I can find). Such attempts end with Hive Mother Beholders. So does anyone have any ideas for a Beholder Hive stat block? Would it be grouped like Swarms of [Creature]? Or would individuals get their own stat block and they function separately? (I prefer second option) Would they all have 10 eye stalks like a normal beholder or less like a Gazer? Would their size and number of them (and thus overall power) be inversely correlated? (Ok maybe that was a bit confusing)
Oh and if circumstances are important, I am hoping to have a Beholder (or Beholder Hive) possibly take over as the next Xanathar in Waterdeep Dragon Heist (depending on how the campaign goes), or have the Beholder Hive a competitor for control of Waterdeep Dungeon of the Mad Mage Level 15 Obstacle Course if the characters kill Netherskull and Halastar decides to bring in a bunch of new Beholders to fight to be the guardian and have control of the level.
Later in the description, it states that the group does not have a hive mind, so I’d treat them as individuals, not a swarm. As for a stat block, they’re all basically clones of the original, (smaller, but that doesn’t necessarily mean smaller enough to make a mechanical difference) so I’d say you just use the same stat block and treat it like most any group of monsters, with allowances for beholders being very smart and therefore using really good tactics. Practically, it would be a really hard encounter to fight multiple beholders at once, though, so you could have the PCs fight them one at a time. It would get really weird to have to fight an identical monster several times.
I know that they do have individual minds, I just had in my head that they would be encountered together and also bees don't share a mind but they are still encountered as a swarm. But ya I did want to do individual anyway (hmm... ya swarm seems to be when there are an extreme number like 20+).
Considering your advice, I think that I'd actually make them Medium with appropriately altered Hit Points and Damage. This is because I don't want to players to have to fight them one by one. The thing that makes a swarm unique is that it is a swarm, and I would like to be able to emphasis this in the Beholder Hive.
Thinking about it further, I think I would like to implement this into Waterdeep Dragon Heist. In the game, only Xanathar's most closely trusted minions know he is a Beholder. But since Xanathar's Guide to Everything, Xanathar has become extremely well known amongst the play base, including his weakness regarding his "lifeline to sanity" Sylgar (if you don't know who Sylgar is then you are not a true fan of D&D (jk)). This creates a problem where the players know far far more than their characters would. By replacing the Beholder Crime Lord with a new Xanathar (or swarm of Xanathars), I can make sure the players don't get caught trying to avoid metagame thinking (as far as they think they have to). The issue with replacing Xanathar is it removes the excitement they may have of grabbing Sylgar and using him as leverage against Xanathar (someone in my D&D group certainly would and probably might get himself killed for it). But the unique twist with a Beholder Hive might be able to make up for this (ofc I will put TONS of effort into fleshing out their character because, again, I have a fascination of Beholders (among other things).
I know that they do have individual minds, I just had in my head that they would be encountered together and also bees don't share a mind but they are still encountered as a swarm.
That's a good point. Things like rats or bats that have D&D swarms don't have a hive mind, either, but they are swarms. But beholders also have much, much higher int scores, so it think individual actions are more appropriate.
If you are going to make them Beholder-light type monsters fought as a group, you might also want to lower the save DCs. And probably remove legendary/lair actions; they'll get a lot more attacks if you have them as individuals, so they won't need the action economy boost of a solo beholder. It can also get really dangerous for PCs. With one beholder, there's 3, 1-in-10 chances that the death ray will come up (for example), and it can only happen once per round. But with more and more of them, there's a greater chance, and it could come up multiple times per round. Two of them in a round targeting the same PC, and its going to take out most characters. Beholders are smart, and would likely focus fire on a single target (maybe start with the cleric to take out the healer, or the wizard, because they'll know he's physically weaker and easier to take down). I guess what I'm getting at is you should really drop the damage by quite a bit and/or makes the saves easier.
And with as smart as they are, and as well known for having long-term schemes, I would have one or two flee the fight if it looks like its going to go against them. Maybe one of them chafes at being in the hive, and had engineered the PCs coming to fight its siblings. So it has already planned an escape route, and once it decides that is plan is working and the PCs will win the day, it runs.
Understood, I plan to have their challenge rating individually considerably decreased appropriate to their size. I like the idea of the betrayal and paranoia amongst themselves, but I think I'll save that for the drow. My plan is the hive have only 1 of them known to the Guild, while the others work behind the shadows. Much like the 2 black dragons in the Mere of Dead Men (spelt maybe Vorhaghamanthar and Wavendor? idk thats just how i pronounce them, the second one is obviously very wrong). In terms of replacing Xanathar's insane love for Sylgar, I am considering making the hive extremely loyal to one another for a variety of reasons. 1. Being in a hive of identical individuals provides safety and security. As they can easily predict (not read) each other's thoughts, it would be very hard to scheme against each other as well. 2. Given their reduced challenge rating: safety in numbers. 3. A Beholder loves nothing as much as itself, and given that the Beholder Hive individuals are essentially identical, they could easily love each other as much as themselves. 4. With the removal of the former Xanathar, the characters no longer get the shot at blackmailing Xanathar with Sylgar. But if the characters manage to get leverage over one of the Hive individuals, they could blackmail with that, given they have a weakened challenge rating (although Waterdeep Dragon Heist isn't designed for much combat).
Btw I had the idea of having a Beholder have a darkness spell on the roof of a ceiling thick enough that the Beholder can fit in the darkness, and attack with a single eye stalk that peers through the darkness and blasts the characters. Ofc a Beholder can also do this with a 120 ft tall Ceiling as most Darkvision is only 60 ft (ya Drow get 120 ft) so that idea is probably kinda pointless.
Oh and one final idea: the Beholder Hive have 1 person who know it is a Hive, a loyal mage that can bring a dead one of them back to life (something like a revivify spell i dont really read revival spells (yet) :/). With the characters thinking there is only 1 Beholder (unless important combat in which the others reveal themselves occurs), this would emphasis the power of the new Xanathar.
Apologies for my frequent tangents and have a nice day Thank you for your time
Looking at Gauth stat block, I don't want to do this because Gauth have several features that make them different to true beholders. They have a stunning gaze instead of antimagic field, devour magic ray, and only 6 rays total. But I did largely use the Gauth as a template for the stat block I am creating. I can make it public when finished, it will be called Beholder Hive.
Antimagic field could make this a highly entertaining fight - the beholders fly magically and use magic attacks, so there could be a lot of beholders falling down and bickering amongst one another to "stop looking at me so I can fry him" and such.
"... At such a time, the beholder's dream-birthing creates a beholder hive -- a group "newborns" that are identical to its own shape but smaller."
I have a fascination with many creatures of D&D: Drow, Mind Flayers, Rust Monsters, Ankhegs, Beholders, Shambling Mounds, etc. All such creatures have a stat block of sorts to allow me to run it in a campaign, including stat blocks for subclasses. Within beholders, we have the Eye Tyrant and Solitary Beholder, both using the same stat block, Death Tyrant, and the Beholder Kin (Gazers and Spectators) get a stat block of their own. But Volo's Guide to Monsters describes yet another form of Beholders: a Beholder Hive.
Essentially a Beholder can dream into existence a "hive" of smaller (nearly) identical "newborn" beholders (with 3 to 10 individuals). The new smaller beholders co-exist with the original. Despite this I actually want to include a Beholder Hive without an original, just the hive on its own.
The problem is, a Beholder Hive has no stat block (of which I can find). Such attempts end with Hive Mother Beholders. So does anyone have any ideas for a Beholder Hive stat block?
Would it be grouped like Swarms of [Creature]? Or would individuals get their own stat block and they function separately? (I prefer second option)
Would they all have 10 eye stalks like a normal beholder or less like a Gazer?
Would their size and number of them (and thus overall power) be inversely correlated? (Ok maybe that was a bit confusing)
Oh and if circumstances are important, I am hoping to have a Beholder (or Beholder Hive) possibly take over as the next Xanathar in Waterdeep Dragon Heist (depending on how the campaign goes), or have the Beholder Hive a competitor for control of Waterdeep Dungeon of the Mad Mage Level 15 Obstacle Course if the characters kill Netherskull and Halastar decides to bring in a bunch of new Beholders to fight to be the guardian and have control of the level.
Thank you for your time.
Later in the description, it states that the group does not have a hive mind, so I’d treat them as individuals, not a swarm. As for a stat block, they’re all basically clones of the original, (smaller, but that doesn’t necessarily mean smaller enough to make a mechanical difference) so I’d say you just use the same stat block and treat it like most any group of monsters, with allowances for beholders being very smart and therefore using really good tactics.
Practically, it would be a really hard encounter to fight multiple beholders at once, though, so you could have the PCs fight them one at a time. It would get really weird to have to fight an identical monster several times.
Thank you.
I know that they do have individual minds, I just had in my head that they would be encountered together and also bees don't share a mind but they are still encountered as a swarm.
But ya I did want to do individual anyway (hmm... ya swarm seems to be when there are an extreme number like 20+).
Considering your advice, I think that I'd actually make them Medium with appropriately altered Hit Points and Damage. This is because I don't want to players to have to fight them one by one. The thing that makes a swarm unique is that it is a swarm, and I would like to be able to emphasis this in the Beholder Hive.
Thinking about it further, I think I would like to implement this into Waterdeep Dragon Heist.
In the game, only Xanathar's most closely trusted minions know he is a Beholder. But since Xanathar's Guide to Everything, Xanathar has become extremely well known amongst the play base, including his weakness regarding his "lifeline to sanity" Sylgar (if you don't know who Sylgar is then you are not a true fan of D&D (jk)). This creates a problem where the players know far far more than their characters would.
By replacing the Beholder Crime Lord with a new Xanathar (or swarm of Xanathars), I can make sure the players don't get caught trying to avoid metagame thinking (as far as they think they have to).
The issue with replacing Xanathar is it removes the excitement they may have of grabbing Sylgar and using him as leverage against Xanathar (someone in my D&D group certainly would and probably might get himself killed for it). But the unique twist with a Beholder Hive might be able to make up for this (ofc I will put TONS of effort into fleshing out their character because, again, I have a fascination of Beholders (among other things).
Thank you again for your assistance
I’ve been wondering about this for so long!
That's a good point. Things like rats or bats that have D&D swarms don't have a hive mind, either, but they are swarms. But beholders also have much, much higher int scores, so it think individual actions are more appropriate.
If you are going to make them Beholder-light type monsters fought as a group, you might also want to lower the save DCs. And probably remove legendary/lair actions; they'll get a lot more attacks if you have them as individuals, so they won't need the action economy boost of a solo beholder. It can also get really dangerous for PCs. With one beholder, there's 3, 1-in-10 chances that the death ray will come up (for example), and it can only happen once per round. But with more and more of them, there's a greater chance, and it could come up multiple times per round. Two of them in a round targeting the same PC, and its going to take out most characters. Beholders are smart, and would likely focus fire on a single target (maybe start with the cleric to take out the healer, or the wizard, because they'll know he's physically weaker and easier to take down). I guess what I'm getting at is you should really drop the damage by quite a bit and/or makes the saves easier.
And with as smart as they are, and as well known for having long-term schemes, I would have one or two flee the fight if it looks like its going to go against them. Maybe one of them chafes at being in the hive, and had engineered the PCs coming to fight its siblings. So it has already planned an escape route, and once it decides that is plan is working and the PCs will win the day, it runs.
Possibly make them Gauth....
Understood, I plan to have their challenge rating individually considerably decreased appropriate to their size.
I like the idea of the betrayal and paranoia amongst themselves, but I think I'll save that for the drow.
My plan is the hive have only 1 of them known to the Guild, while the others work behind the shadows. Much like the 2 black dragons in the Mere of Dead Men (spelt maybe Vorhaghamanthar and Wavendor? idk thats just how i pronounce them, the second one is obviously very wrong).
In terms of replacing Xanathar's insane love for Sylgar, I am considering making the hive extremely loyal to one another for a variety of reasons.
1. Being in a hive of identical individuals provides safety and security. As they can easily predict (not read) each other's thoughts, it would be very hard to scheme against each other as well.
2. Given their reduced challenge rating: safety in numbers.
3. A Beholder loves nothing as much as itself, and given that the Beholder Hive individuals are essentially identical, they could easily love each other as much as themselves.
4. With the removal of the former Xanathar, the characters no longer get the shot at blackmailing Xanathar with Sylgar. But if the characters manage to get leverage over one of the Hive individuals, they could blackmail with that, given they have a weakened challenge rating (although Waterdeep Dragon Heist isn't designed for much combat).
Btw I had the idea of having a Beholder have a darkness spell on the roof of a ceiling thick enough that the Beholder can fit in the darkness, and attack with a single eye stalk that peers through the darkness and blasts the characters. Ofc a Beholder can also do this with a 120 ft tall Ceiling as most Darkvision is only 60 ft (ya Drow get 120 ft) so that idea is probably kinda pointless.
Oh and one final idea: the Beholder Hive have 1 person who know it is a Hive, a loyal mage that can bring a dead one of them back to life (something like a revivify spell i dont really read revival spells (yet) :/). With the characters thinking there is only 1 Beholder (unless important combat in which the others reveal themselves occurs), this would emphasis the power of the new Xanathar.
Apologies for my frequent tangents and have a nice day
Thank you for your time
Looking at Gauth stat block, I don't want to do this because Gauth have several features that make them different to true beholders.
They have a stunning gaze instead of antimagic field, devour magic ray, and only 6 rays total. But I did largely use the Gauth as a template for the stat block I am creating.
I can make it public when finished, it will be called Beholder Hive.
Thank you for your time.
Antimagic field could make this a highly entertaining fight - the beholders fly magically and use magic attacks, so there could be a lot of beholders falling down and bickering amongst one another to "stop looking at me so I can fry him" and such.
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https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hive_Mother_(5e_Creature)