Hey folks,

I am a new DM who was just printing out the paper map for my players to use on the table for Dnd.  I took a hands-off approach to metagaming but, recently I had an issue with a new player where he saw the entire map and wanted to know every room and what the room is used for. This normally wouldn't be an issue in any DnD session but the problem was he never even explored the room and was demanding answers from all the room. This was kind of ruining the experience for the whole table because once he started questioning the whole party kind of hopped in and was doing the same. I have decided to try a new way by replacing the table mat and paper printout with a 32" TV laying it on its back and trying to use a program like Foundry vtt or roll20 to create those dead zones where the player would need to move forward in order to see what's in the room. I wouldn't need foundry vtt or Roll20 to display all the player icons because the idea is for their miniatures to sit on the screen. This TV is cheap and meant to be a throwaway. I guess my main question is how do I have the player view up on the TV and the GM view on my laptop work in sync I would still need my mouse to move a single piece around the board with the view cone. I don't think I would need to buy a Foundry server since it would be local. I guess I'm just really confused about how to approach this. The next DnD session is on March 25th if anyone has any tips or tricks I would greatly appreciate the feedback or guidance.

I apologize I have no answers for you.

I do the same using an ipad and my appleTV -- I just dupe the screen and zoom so that I only show the parts being seen for in person stuff and my virtual games (which are through zoom or teams).

If you're printing the maps out, I recommend only putting down pages as PCs move into positions where they can actually see it, or else covering parts of the map the PCs haven't been to yet.

And if a player wants to ask questions about a given room, "[character name] can't see that room from their current location" is a perfectly valid response.

Quote from GraysonDele >>

[...]a new player where he saw the entire map and wanted to know every room and what the room is used for[...]

 So, was this during the game to use for his character? Or after the session ended and was just curious about what they missed? The latter isn't a problem.

The former? Roll a perception check, DC: 30, no autosuccess on a nat20, a failure by 10 or more results in you waving your hands around while you moan like lunatic, resulting in a -1 to Charisma rolls for the next three sessions. A nat1 results in you doing an especially bad performance, -5. Go.

Ok, I might not be quite that harsh with a new player. Still, I'd just tell them that they can't perceive anything through the surprisingly opaque stone walls that are inconveniently in the way of the character's view of the room. If they persist, then the comedy starts, including them straining so hard to see through the stone wall that they don't notice various monsters wandering up to them. If it becomes a recurrent problem, then it's important to have a mini-session-0. Explain that it's silly asking for information that the characters haven't done anything to qualify for. In future, you'd like it if they roleplayed their characters and limited themselves to what the characters would know and do. Say that attempts to blatantly metagame makes the game unfun for you and you really don't enjoy that, so can we play how its intended?

Honestly, if they don't agree or if they do but ignore it...then there's not a lot to be said. People who don't respect what you feel or enjoy are going to continuously cause you grief. I'd walk. What I wouldn't do is spend tens or hundreds on trying to force them to behave the way I want them to. They'll just cause problems elsewhere and you'll be wasting time, energy and money trying to stamp out the fires. Find another group.

If they're willing to meet you halfway, that's different. If they say "Ok, I see that, and I want to do it that way, but seeing those extra rooms just puts my curiousity into overdrive and makes it really difficult for me to stick to in game knowledge", then you might do things like this...while asking that they pitch in for the hardware and stuff. 

Just remember that D&D is a collaborative game. While you should be willing to help them, they need to be willing to work with you to achieve goals. Just as you should help them to not metagame, they should be taking steps to prevent metagaming themselves. Whenever a DM has to put the dictator-hat on, something is seriously wrong, something substantially worse than a player asking questions about a room they've never seen.

We did this exact thing recently. We just placed miniatures directly on the tv sceen. It worked wonderfully. Mind to put some cardboard under the miniatures though (if you go that way) or they'll scratch the screen.

Um, also our GM had some trouble with fog of war - a couple of maps we could actually see everything. Didn't matter much, though. Although it was slightly meta to 'look for secret doors' when they were actually right there in full view =)

For specifics, we used Map Tools, and our GM had bought all the files for the adventure right here on DNDB. Hm, the adventure was/is Tomb of Annihilation.

You don't need software, just a few pieces of paper. Cover the parts of the map they haven't explored yet, and gradually move the pieces of paper to reveal more rooms as they move around.

This is the method used by a lot of groups who are all sitting in the same room.

Quote from Farling >>

You don't need software, just a few pieces of paper. Cover the parts of the map they haven't explored yet, and gradually move the pieces of paper to reveal more rooms as they move around.

This is the method used by a lot of groups who are all sitting in the same room.

 The age-old method from the first days of DnD.  Some things never go out of style.

What you've described is essentially what I do. I have a 32" tv that I got for $50 on FB Marketplace, put some ottoman legs on the back of it, and hooked it up to my laptop to use a digital map device. 

I use MapTool, which is free, and just open two instances of it. One as the DM and one as a player on a LAN connection. It takes some learning to make it actually useful. To set up the fog of war and light sources (if you wanted them), but it's open source, there are a ton of YouTube tutorials, and the Discord server is SUPER helpful. 

I think a simple discussion might solve this problem and keep you from having to put in extra work or money.  Find a friendly way to let them know that behavior can put a damper on things.  Part of being a good player is being on the DM's side and helping them facilitate a fun game for everyone all at once.

for the TV, i use aboveVTT and set a player view on the TV. then i control the player view from my DM view by double clicking to bring the player to that ping.
you can also, just a create a picture the size of the TV screen. just use the measuring tape and check the actual inches size of your TV actual screen. as an exemple... my 46 inches screen is actually... 44x25 i think, something along those lines... so if i create an image exactly 44 inches by 25 inches... i will literally get the real aspect ratio and size for a battlemap that fits entirely on my 46 inches TV. I also created my own software to send videos and musics to my TV. so thati ccan do it all from 1 software.

as for the problem... metagaming is metagaming.... the only way to counter it would be to act as if the players were always in game.
so if it was me, the player asking about the other rooms, i would of laughed... then said to the other players that he started waving his hands in the air looking as if he was seeing the rooms beyond his sight and he's asking the gods (pointing myself, the DM) whats beyond. and then i would let the other player laugh at him for the crazy moment that just hapenned. believe me that player will understand quite fast what metagaming is.

from what you just told us, its not your method thats wrong...its how you managed it.
you basically let it slip by and the other players took the wagon as in "oh we can just ask you ?!!" and they jumped in on the idea... just explain to your players that they dont have that information and that its not your job as the DM to give you that information before the time comes. they'll get it that were out of bounds. i often have players asking me whats gonna happen if they do such action instead of this action, and i always answer the same thing... try it and see for yourself ! and they often laugh as they know i've not fallen to their trap of foretelling the best course.

metagaming is easily counteracted by just being "in the game" and player question about metagaming is easily countered by just not answering their questions.

Quote from Allurian219 >>

Quote from Farling >>

You don't need software, just a few pieces of paper. Cover the parts of the map they haven't explored yet, and gradually move the pieces of paper to reveal more rooms as they move around.

This is the method used by a lot of groups who are all sitting in the same room.

 The age-old method from the first days of DnD.  Some things never go out of style.

 theater of the mind is even older.... i dont even draw the dungeon until there is combat !

I feel like there's a market opportunity here. Someone should make these. Raised from the table, so you can still have your dice and sheets and what-not. Maybe some cup holders. 

Quote from Kotath >>

Quote from DnDPaladin >>

Quote from Allurian219 >>

Quote from Farling >>

You don't need software, just a few pieces of paper. Cover the parts of the map they haven't explored yet, and gradually move the pieces of paper to reveal more rooms as they move around.

This is the method used by a lot of groups who are all sitting in the same room.

 The age-old method from the first days of DnD.  Some things never go out of style.

 theater of the mind is even older.... i dont even draw the dungeon until there is combat !

 

In terms of 'gaming' perhaps, but mapping has been there from the very start of the game. Players making their own maps based on DM descriptions was actually far more common in the beginning than it is today, IMO. We did a lot more camping IRL and thus had much better ideas of what actual adventuring might be like than most players do today, simply because it was a LOT easier to find a campground, plus computers were not a thing yet.

 players doing their map out of their head based on what you are explaining as the DM, "IS" theater of the mind. whats not theater of the mind, is the DM doing the map and then giving it to the player.

also... i was born in 1980 and started playing 1985... the red box one of my friend had. his mother was the DM and it was plenty of fun.
i also remember the time in 2e where we had to redo initiative and count the new initative based on what charcaters were doing... thank god for computers now doing that job for us !

how often did the map of your players were off ? my players were always off back int he 90ies. even if i described them the place in detail, the maps were always off.
theater of the mind is them imagining the map. as far as i know, they are not in your head, even if you describe the map there is always chances that they imagine something else. sorry but even if you think making a map is making a map... there is a difference between the DM showing his own work as it is intended to a player and the players imagining what you are saying and trying to draw it from their own imagination of what you described.

as for miniatures... sure there was... but the only reason gygax ever used them to begin with, was just to show players the differences between wargames he was playing and the hero type game he wanted... in the end gygax himself stopped using minis. tomb of horrors was entirely played by him as theater of the mind. but sure, everyone played the way they wanted... but in my region... i played at school, with friends. none of us ever played with minis... minis were way too expansive for kids like us. i mean... a dollar from my parents could get me far candy wise... but it wouldn't buy me figurines...

I didn't see a whole lot of answers to the intended question, so I thought I would hop in here, albeit late, to say, if you were looking for some software to implement on your TV, my best recommendation as of writing this, is Arkenforge. It's a one time fee for the software, and it has strong tools to turn your TV into a virtual table top. You import your own maps, animations if you would like, even tokens if you would like to use those for your enemies etc. And I got a cheap TV cover to go over top of it so the players can put their minis on top without damaging the screen and even roll dice.

it has been a great solution for us, and I have run two campaigns on it and some substitute DM's have greatly enjoyed the experience as well. The learning curve does exist, but my recommendation is, join the discord server for it. There's usually a lot of help to be found there on the few things you do get stuck with.

Necro post, I know. To solve the problem of needing simultaneous player and DM views, I just launch two browser sessions (e.g. one incognito window, or two separate Chrome profiles) then log both into my VTT website as two different accounts. I put the “player” account on the big screen and keep the “GM” account on my laptop screen. The player account might need access to control the other player tokens.

I’ve also had another “lead” player bring their laptop to the session and put their view on the big screen. Then their mouse can even be passed around among the players.