Apologies for asking questions that have likely already been debated, but I can only find scattered bits of information, so I thought I’d centralize my inquiries here and address my questions to you.
As a DM currently running a campaign (and one that’s far from over) started with the 2014 edition, I’m wondering how compatible the content really is between the 2014 and 2024 editions, now that some of us have had a bit of time to test out the new version. I understand that the 2024 edition is still incomplete, and a bit of homebrew doesn’t scare me to fill in the gaps, but I’d like to hear your opinions after concrete testing regarding the following points:
Compatibility within the same group of 2014 and 2024 characters: Is it possible without too many issues?
Character power progression: It’s said that the progression system differs between the 2014 and 2024 editions (with 2024 characters reportedly being stronger at equivalent levels compared to their 2014 counterparts). Is this manageable, or does it create overly disparate groups in terms of level progression balance?
Challenge Rating for monsters and opponents: In mixed 2014-2024 groups, can the CR system handle such differences without having characters who are either “too weak” or “too strong,” potentially breaking the group’s dynamic?
I’d like to “take the leap” and switch to the 2024 rules, but I don’t want to leave behind the veterans in my group who are reluctant to part with their characters. So, I’m still exploring the feasibility of the transition, which is why I’m asking these questions to help me find a balance that will satisfy everyone.
I've yet to see any major issues from my group upgrading to 2024. I'm not sure who hasn't, but that I can't tell you who hasn't tells you something.
The CR system and how published adventures do things are both broken just by existing. I don't think the step up to 2024 power levels really makes a dent on that.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Without talking about CR then, I know the system is far from perfect (especially at higher levels, though thankfully I’m pretty stingy with experience — my players are only level 5 for now, so let’s say it gives me a general indication, even though I always check and adapt things a bit, yes).
Is there really, as I’ve heard, a noticeable difference in ‘practical effectiveness’ between two characters of the same class of 1 or 2 levels of difference between the 2014 and 2024 ( in 2024 favor ) versions? If that’s the case, I’ll have to manage and balance everyone... otherwise, it’ll create unfairness around the table.
Without talking about CR then, I know the system is far from perfect (especially at higher levels, though thankfully I’m pretty stingy with experience — my players are only level 5 for now, so let’s say it gives me a general indication, even though I always check and adapt things a bit, yes).
Is there really, as I’ve heard, a noticeable difference in ‘practical effectiveness’ between two characters of the same class of 1 or 2 levels of difference between the 2014 and 2024 ( in 2024 favor ) versions? If that’s the case, I’ll have to manage and balance everyone... otherwise, it’ll create unfairness around the table.
Thanks for you answer anyway.
The groups I'm in are slowly wobbling to 2024, with people updating their characters as they have time and ability. (Not everyone is that comfortable with DDB, and I just had to homebrew to fix the problem with old paladin subclasses not getting their extra spells, so some people are going to have a harder time of it than others.) We have one player who's not going to be able to update. (Talisman warlock.)
I'm not seeing a problem with the power level differences, but that may be partly a thing with the players involved. If they care greatly about effectiveness, it's going to be a bigger deal than it is for us.
Also, power level changes are very class-dependent. Wizard isn't much different. Monk is a big difference. Martials are going to see a more obvious boost, because they get weapon masteries.
Well, since the campaign has a fairly prominent military aspect, their effectiveness on the battlefield is indeed quite important. I don't think they're the type to complain, but I prefer to anticipate and avoid creating any (unintentional) injustices.
If the differences between 2014 and 2024 characters aren't too significant and they can coexist around the same table without too much trouble, then I'm reassured.
I don't have any monks at the table, but there are 2 warriors, so I'll take a closer look at the new weapon masteries. Thank you.
Yes the two can coexist in a campaign without too many problems. However, the weaponmasteries do add to martials capability in noticeable ways. If you’re going with 2024 rules ( and monsters when the MM comes out) I would recommend that martials especially update to 2024 as much as possible. This will impact monks and rangers the most. So while you don’t have a monk you may have a ranger.
Our DM found that having players transition to 2024 but not the monsters meant he had to up the difficulty. Took us a couple games for him to figure out the right balance. Couple encounters were done as waves of attackers so he could push us but cut it short if needed. As players we found our 2024 characters are more powerful
2024 characters are absolutely more powerful than their 2014 equivalents, and until the 2024 Monster Manual comes out, balancing encounters for 2024 characters can be challenging.
If you are going to mix 2014 and 2024 characters in the same group, the 2014 characters may need a boost - or they'll feel left behind. Encounters strong enough to challenge the 2024 characters may overwhelm the 2014 characters. It also greatly depends on what classes/subclasses/species are being played. Some changed greatly, others less so.
Weapon Mastery adds a huge amount of power to the martial classes, and if you have a martial 2014 character mixed in with your 2024 characters, i'd absolutely give that 2014 character access to Weapon Mastery. The ability to gain an extra (basically free) attack every round, advantage as long as your last attack hit, kocking enemies prone, slowing their movement, or knocking them back - is HUGE.
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Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Okay, thanks for your feedback and advice, guys. I was talking with my local tabletop RPG dealer on Saturday, and he mentioned, when I brought up my concerns, that it might be worth waiting for the Monster Manual to see how it turns out (since it should be balanced for 2024 player characters). That way, we can check how things play out. Indeed, if a given monster is stronger in its 2024 version, then player characters created with the 2014 rules might struggle too much.
So, I think for now, I’ll stick with the 2014 rules and characters until the full release of the three core books. Then… well, we’ll assess on a case-by-case basis. If necessary, I’ll ‘recreate’ the characters using the 2024 version from the ground up and level them artificially to a believable ‘equivalent’ in terms of narrative coherence with what they were using the 2014 rules.
Thanks again for your responses.
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French DM
Actually in a homebrew campaign creation process.
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Hello everyone,
Apologies for asking questions that have likely already been debated, but I can only find scattered bits of information, so I thought I’d centralize my inquiries here and address my questions to you.
As a DM currently running a campaign (and one that’s far from over) started with the 2014 edition, I’m wondering how compatible the content really is between the 2014 and 2024 editions, now that some of us have had a bit of time to test out the new version. I understand that the 2024 edition is still incomplete, and a bit of homebrew doesn’t scare me to fill in the gaps, but I’d like to hear your opinions after concrete testing regarding the following points:
I’d like to “take the leap” and switch to the 2024 rules, but I don’t want to leave behind the veterans in my group who are reluctant to part with their characters. So, I’m still exploring the feasibility of the transition, which is why I’m asking these questions to help me find a balance that will satisfy everyone.
Thank you in advance, and happy gaming!
French DM
Actually in a homebrew campaign creation process.
Some characters can be updated anyway.
I've yet to see any major issues from my group upgrading to 2024. I'm not sure who hasn't, but that I can't tell you who hasn't tells you something.
The CR system and how published adventures do things are both broken just by existing. I don't think the step up to 2024 power levels really makes a dent on that.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Ok, I see.
Without talking about CR then, I know the system is far from perfect (especially at higher levels, though thankfully I’m pretty stingy with experience — my players are only level 5 for now, so let’s say it gives me a general indication, even though I always check and adapt things a bit, yes).
Is there really, as I’ve heard, a noticeable difference in ‘practical effectiveness’ between two characters of the same class of 1 or 2 levels of difference between the 2014 and 2024 ( in 2024 favor ) versions?
If that’s the case, I’ll have to manage and balance everyone... otherwise, it’ll create unfairness around the table.
Thanks for you answer anyway.
French DM
Actually in a homebrew campaign creation process.
The groups I'm in are slowly wobbling to 2024, with people updating their characters as they have time and ability. (Not everyone is that comfortable with DDB, and I just had to homebrew to fix the problem with old paladin subclasses not getting their extra spells, so some people are going to have a harder time of it than others.) We have one player who's not going to be able to update. (Talisman warlock.)
I'm not seeing a problem with the power level differences, but that may be partly a thing with the players involved. If they care greatly about effectiveness, it's going to be a bigger deal than it is for us.
Also, power level changes are very class-dependent. Wizard isn't much different. Monk is a big difference. Martials are going to see a more obvious boost, because they get weapon masteries.
I see, thank you.
Well, since the campaign has a fairly prominent military aspect, their effectiveness on the battlefield is indeed quite important.
I don't think they're the type to complain, but I prefer to anticipate and avoid creating any (unintentional) injustices.
If the differences between 2014 and 2024 characters aren't too significant and they can coexist around the same table without too much trouble, then I'm reassured.
I don't have any monks at the table, but there are 2 warriors, so I'll take a closer look at the new weapon masteries. Thank you.
French DM
Actually in a homebrew campaign creation process.
Yes the two can coexist in a campaign without too many problems. However, the weaponmasteries do add to martials capability in noticeable ways. If you’re going with 2024 rules ( and monsters when the MM comes out) I would recommend that martials especially update to 2024 as much as possible. This will impact monks and rangers the most. So while you don’t have a monk you may have a ranger.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Our DM found that having players transition to 2024 but not the monsters meant he had to up the difficulty. Took us a couple games for him to figure out the right balance. Couple encounters were done as waves of attackers so he could push us but cut it short if needed. As players we found our 2024 characters are more powerful
2024 characters are absolutely more powerful than their 2014 equivalents, and until the 2024 Monster Manual comes out, balancing encounters for 2024 characters can be challenging.
If you are going to mix 2014 and 2024 characters in the same group, the 2014 characters may need a boost - or they'll feel left behind. Encounters strong enough to challenge the 2024 characters may overwhelm the 2014 characters. It also greatly depends on what classes/subclasses/species are being played. Some changed greatly, others less so.
Weapon Mastery adds a huge amount of power to the martial classes, and if you have a martial 2014 character mixed in with your 2024 characters, i'd absolutely give that 2014 character access to Weapon Mastery. The ability to gain an extra (basically free) attack every round, advantage as long as your last attack hit, kocking enemies prone, slowing their movement, or knocking them back - is HUGE.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Okay, thanks for your feedback and advice, guys. I was talking with my local tabletop RPG dealer on Saturday, and he mentioned, when I brought up my concerns, that it might be worth waiting for the Monster Manual to see how it turns out (since it should be balanced for 2024 player characters). That way, we can check how things play out. Indeed, if a given monster is stronger in its 2024 version, then player characters created with the 2014 rules might struggle too much.
So, I think for now, I’ll stick with the 2014 rules and characters until the full release of the three core books. Then… well, we’ll assess on a case-by-case basis. If necessary, I’ll ‘recreate’ the characters using the 2024 version from the ground up and level them artificially to a believable ‘equivalent’ in terms of narrative coherence with what they were using the 2014 rules.
Thanks again for your responses.
French DM
Actually in a homebrew campaign creation process.