First off, thank you for looking at this post and giving my thoughts a chance. I have not played D&D for quite some time as I have had scheduling issues in life that conflicted with all my friends and when I had a group get together, we only met for character creations. I finally have a group of people who want to play and seem to be able to make the time to get it rolling. Most of them are new to D&D, I have one vet who has played for about 13 years straight with few breaks. I decided to take on the role of DM as it seemed to fit best for most the group and the vet has DM'd a lot and needed a break from it.
Now my real issue is, I have been creating my own campaign and am unsure how deep I want to go into this rabbit hole. I love to be detailed and create the world, its NPCs, and the element which creates this needed adventure. My worry is, can I get too detailed and set into a story, even at the beginning, that the PCs feel its more a book being read than something they will partake in? I have just under a page created to get the story rolling at this time. It will open to have their characters being made to do a simple walk through as they learn of what is happening in their start town. Once they receive the mission, its open world pretty much. They will pretty much choose the path laid before them and as they arrive at the destination the story kicks back in. I get descriptive in the location, but only a short paragraph. I allow them to choose what they want to do and repeat. As they choose to wander or finish a battle, the next paragraph is delivered.
Now once the first short mission is done, I will have a setup for them to receive praise and find that what they did was merely a start to a long journey in an open world environment, still confined to a small continent. As they learn of this mysterious power beyond the gates and whatnot, I have left very little details to be set in stone, as I will let them guide the story from there. So is a heavy detail start okay to lead into a more PC controlled story later? I feel that is more what my question is leading to. My other issue will become creating good battles with proper CR challenge, but I figure that will be more a learning process as we go.
Any help, ideas, or creative twists are more than welcome. I really look forward to your replies and perhaps I will have better threads to come. And as you read this, you find yourself at the end of a somewhat lengthy question, the lights dim around you as your keyboard begins to stand out ever more prominently, aching for your touch, laying in anticipation... what do you do?
Hm, I would advise against any dependencies on player characters doing something specific in order to get the story moving. They may never talk to the person you envision, they may never reach the destination that you imagined they would.
Tell the story through circumstance. Let the PCs roam, and throw in the potential plot hooks via whomever or what they interact with. Throw the script away and keep it 95% improv. I think that you can have cities, NPCs planned out, but have them be flexible in where they popup in the world depending on where the players go, but re-theme depending on location such that it makes sense and doesn't feel artificial.
I'd think the players can write the story by their actions, you can then tailor on the fly to suit what generates the most fun/tension.
Hm, I would advise against any dependencies on player characters doing something specific in order to get the story moving.
Yeah, even when it's absurdly obvious, players will find a way to either purposefully or ignorantly ignore your plot hooks and plot progression points.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
Don't set out to write a story. Write a world, NPC's and bad guys with an agenda. Then the interaction of your prep work with the player characters will create the story. Maybe regard your notes as the first draft of the story but the actual finished story will be a collaborative effort with your players.
And yeah, as mentioned don't be afraid to use railschröding to insert plot hooks and encounters wherever the PC's decide to go, as long as it makes sense. For a video game example, in KotOR you always got captured after the 3rd world you visited, regardless of the order you did them.
Way I see it, as a new DM myself trying to figure this out, is that there's a difference between a plot and a metaplot. The plot, the story, is what the characters are doing. The metaplot, the setting, is what is happening all around them. The two should relate to the each other, but neither require the other. The plot most be loose and reactionary so that the players can feel like they have control over what they do and their decisions matter. The metaplot is entirely under the DM's control, though it's good for the DM to let it shift and change according to where the plot goes. Because once the two touch, that aspect of the metaplot is now the plot. Treating the plot like it was the metaplot is where you get the problem of railroading.
An article I read, where and who wrote it I can't quite remember, made an interesting point I'm trying to take to heart. And that is to leave the metaplot ephemeral where it's closest to the plot, only settling in and becoming real when they finally touch. Don't anchor it with absolutes, leave it vague. This allows you to better incorporate the metaplot into the plot's narrative without risk of railroading or shoehorning. Like, is there a dungeon in your world that a cult is performing a ritual, linked to half a dozen others in the broader region? A dungeon you want your players to encounter so that they become aware of the cult and deal with it? Don't anchor that dungeon in an exact spot on the map, don't set it within an absolute that the players could easily and likely ignore or avoid. The players just decided to go into this other dungeon, because of some sidequest an NPC gave them? Maybe that's the same dungeon, a major metaplot element that was left unanchored until the players encounter it. Just remember that now that this piece of the metaplot is now the plot, it's now fully reactionary to the players.
As far as how deep do you go into worldbuilding, that really depends on your interests and that of the group. If you're building and you need to share it, consider your players. Are they role-players that get deep into their character's backstories and what anchors them to the setting? Go nuts, they'll probably enjoy it. Do they tend to get distracted or bored when the DM is the only one talking for more than a couple minutes? Keep it shallow, make it a bare minimum. If you're building the setting just because it's fun, for yourself, and you don't have as much of a need to share it, then go as deep as you want to go. Just keep your players in mind when you do share it. The setting can be both as deep as you want it, and as shallow as the players will care.
Since my OP, I have been working on the maps main points of interest. I have named cities, locations and other areas. I have typed up basic descriptions and even setup some encounter tables for the types of locations which can be determined by a d20.
I still have the first city for the start of the game with deep detail, the first quest to warm up my new players, encounters set for said quest and what happens as they complete it. Past that there will be the one spark to the whole story which then grants them the freedom at that point to do anything.
I am trying to brace myself for all the crazy actions they may take and keep an open mind for what they may try and do. I mean if someone wants to find a thieves guild in a place without one but rolls a nat 20, I'll be making it happen lol. So it feels I truly will be DMing on the fly. Glad I didnt go full detail on anything past the first city.
I really appreciate the responses and help, please feel free to drop any other tips you find can always aid a beginner DM. Reading a few posts has been very helpful and inspiring.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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First off, thank you for looking at this post and giving my thoughts a chance. I have not played D&D for quite some time as I have had scheduling issues in life that conflicted with all my friends and when I had a group get together, we only met for character creations. I finally have a group of people who want to play and seem to be able to make the time to get it rolling. Most of them are new to D&D, I have one vet who has played for about 13 years straight with few breaks. I decided to take on the role of DM as it seemed to fit best for most the group and the vet has DM'd a lot and needed a break from it.
Now my real issue is, I have been creating my own campaign and am unsure how deep I want to go into this rabbit hole. I love to be detailed and create the world, its NPCs, and the element which creates this needed adventure. My worry is, can I get too detailed and set into a story, even at the beginning, that the PCs feel its more a book being read than something they will partake in? I have just under a page created to get the story rolling at this time. It will open to have their characters being made to do a simple walk through as they learn of what is happening in their start town. Once they receive the mission, its open world pretty much. They will pretty much choose the path laid before them and as they arrive at the destination the story kicks back in. I get descriptive in the location, but only a short paragraph. I allow them to choose what they want to do and repeat. As they choose to wander or finish a battle, the next paragraph is delivered.
Now once the first short mission is done, I will have a setup for them to receive praise and find that what they did was merely a start to a long journey in an open world environment, still confined to a small continent. As they learn of this mysterious power beyond the gates and whatnot, I have left very little details to be set in stone, as I will let them guide the story from there. So is a heavy detail start okay to lead into a more PC controlled story later? I feel that is more what my question is leading to. My other issue will become creating good battles with proper CR challenge, but I figure that will be more a learning process as we go.
Any help, ideas, or creative twists are more than welcome. I really look forward to your replies and perhaps I will have better threads to come. And as you read this, you find yourself at the end of a somewhat lengthy question, the lights dim around you as your keyboard begins to stand out ever more prominently, aching for your touch, laying in anticipation... what do you do?
Hm, I would advise against any dependencies on player characters doing something specific in order to get the story moving. They may never talk to the person you envision, they may never reach the destination that you imagined they would.
Tell the story through circumstance. Let the PCs roam, and throw in the potential plot hooks via whomever or what they interact with. Throw the script away and keep it 95% improv. I think that you can have cities, NPCs planned out, but have them be flexible in where they popup in the world depending on where the players go, but re-theme depending on location such that it makes sense and doesn't feel artificial.
I'd think the players can write the story by their actions, you can then tailor on the fly to suit what generates the most fun/tension.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Yeah, even when it's absurdly obvious, players will find a way to either purposefully or ignorantly ignore your plot hooks and plot progression points.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
Don't set out to write a story. Write a world, NPC's and bad guys with an agenda. Then the interaction of your prep work with the player characters will create the story. Maybe regard your notes as the first draft of the story but the actual finished story will be a collaborative effort with your players.
And yeah, as mentioned don't be afraid to use railschröding to insert plot hooks and encounters wherever the PC's decide to go, as long as it makes sense. For a video game example, in KotOR you always got captured after the 3rd world you visited, regardless of the order you did them.
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ModeratorWay I see it, as a new DM myself trying to figure this out, is that there's a difference between a plot and a metaplot. The plot, the story, is what the characters are doing. The metaplot, the setting, is what is happening all around them. The two should relate to the each other, but neither require the other. The plot most be loose and reactionary so that the players can feel like they have control over what they do and their decisions matter. The metaplot is entirely under the DM's control, though it's good for the DM to let it shift and change according to where the plot goes. Because once the two touch, that aspect of the metaplot is now the plot. Treating the plot like it was the metaplot is where you get the problem of railroading.
An article I read, where and who wrote it I can't quite remember, made an interesting point I'm trying to take to heart. And that is to leave the metaplot ephemeral where it's closest to the plot, only settling in and becoming real when they finally touch. Don't anchor it with absolutes, leave it vague. This allows you to better incorporate the metaplot into the plot's narrative without risk of railroading or shoehorning. Like, is there a dungeon in your world that a cult is performing a ritual, linked to half a dozen others in the broader region? A dungeon you want your players to encounter so that they become aware of the cult and deal with it? Don't anchor that dungeon in an exact spot on the map, don't set it within an absolute that the players could easily and likely ignore or avoid. The players just decided to go into this other dungeon, because of some sidequest an NPC gave them? Maybe that's the same dungeon, a major metaplot element that was left unanchored until the players encounter it. Just remember that now that this piece of the metaplot is now the plot, it's now fully reactionary to the players.
As far as how deep do you go into worldbuilding, that really depends on your interests and that of the group. If you're building and you need to share it, consider your players. Are they role-players that get deep into their character's backstories and what anchors them to the setting? Go nuts, they'll probably enjoy it. Do they tend to get distracted or bored when the DM is the only one talking for more than a couple minutes? Keep it shallow, make it a bare minimum. If you're building the setting just because it's fun, for yourself, and you don't have as much of a need to share it, then go as deep as you want to go. Just keep your players in mind when you do share it. The setting can be both as deep as you want it, and as shallow as the players will care.
Since my OP, I have been working on the maps main points of interest. I have named cities, locations and other areas. I have typed up basic descriptions and even setup some encounter tables for the types of locations which can be determined by a d20.
I still have the first city for the start of the game with deep detail, the first quest to warm up my new players, encounters set for said quest and what happens as they complete it. Past that there will be the one spark to the whole story which then grants them the freedom at that point to do anything.
I am trying to brace myself for all the crazy actions they may take and keep an open mind for what they may try and do. I mean if someone wants to find a thieves guild in a place without one but rolls a nat 20, I'll be making it happen lol. So it feels I truly will be DMing on the fly. Glad I didnt go full detail on anything past the first city.
I really appreciate the responses and help, please feel free to drop any other tips you find can always aid a beginner DM. Reading a few posts has been very helpful and inspiring.