I hate the money System in 5e, it makes no sense whatsoever. is a gold worth 1 dollar of 10 dollars? is a silver worth 1 dollar or 10cents? it is stupid... plate armor costs 1500gp and a potion of healing costs 50 gp but if you want to buy a small vessel it is 3000 gp and if you want to buy a chariot it is 250 gp? but a candle costs 1 cp or a ride across a city cost 1 cp or to hire an underling costs 2 silver. you can buy a chicken for 3copper pieces but a room at an inn can cost 5 silver pieces up to 5 gold pieces. a goat costs 1 gold piece but a piece of meat costs 1 silver piece? this is the most senseless and useless crap system for money i have ever seen. it all changes depending on where you are and there are gems worth 1 gp or 5000 up to 25000gp?
seriously here is the fix to it you need to make the choice... is a silver worth 1 dollar or is a gold worth 1 dollar? if a gold is worth 1 dollar then a silver is worth 10cents and a copper is worth a penny. if a silver is worth a dollar then a gold is worth 10 dollars and a copper is worth 10cents. Do you really want to charge your players 1500 dollars for some plate armor or 15000? sounds pretty expensive to me people would have to work their entire lives and not be able to afford plate armor or a sword in this world, yet there are people that own ships. armor should not cost more than 500 dollars this means 500 silver or 50 gold if you are playing 1sp=$1. if you are playing 1 gp=1Dollar then it would be 500gp or 50 platinum.
another way to fix this issue is to use the 100 100 100 method. 100 cp=1 sp, 100sp=1 gp 100 gp=1pp. where 1 silver piece= $1. a diamond worth 5000gp in the players handbook would now be worth 5000silver or 50 gold. which is way closer to what you would pay today for a diamond. this makes things more accessible. a night at an inn would be 50 silver per pc.
anyway, i just feel like the system is too broken to use and i dont like it. someone should go through and fix it and put in new amounts for items and services that actually make some sort of sense.
Neither a gold nor a silver are worth 1 dollar. I have no idea what gave you the idea that there's a conversion rate between dnd currency and the currency of whatever country you live in that uses a currency named "dollar". Certainly, it is explicitly true that dnd 5E prices have no relation at all to 21st century Earth prices of anything, regardless of country - DnD 5E has golems and hasn't got airplanes or, in most settings, refrigeration. The closest you can come to a sound basis for arguing DnD prices from Earth prices would be something akin to middle ages Europe, and you'd still have problems because of how deeply magic impacts the economy.
You understand a 10th level Genielock can make 1,000 cubic feet of granite an hour, right? And we have no idea how common those are in a given setting? In a setting where they're common, granite should cost a pittance compared to what it would cost, say, me right now.
DnD 5E's economy is badly and deeply broken, no mistake, but you're on far more solid ground arguing from internal consistency, comparing the prices of two things within the game world (chickens are an often cited example, well-spotted).
You can't convert D&D price and value to real world price and value because not all things scale at the same rate as technology progresses.
A loaf of bread in Faerun would cost a lot more to make than it would in our world because we have massive infrastructure for mass producing bread and stocking supermarkets by the hundreds of loaves. Conversely, plate armor would likely cost similar amounts because we don't mass produce plate armor, so the same techniques and processes would be used.
There is no mapping gold or silver pieces onto real world currency because there's no parity between the value of various things.
ok so 1 goat is worth 100 chickens and 1 night at an inn is worth 50 chickens and a diamond is worth 500000 chickens but it is only worth 5000gp or 10000nights in a hotel? and plate armor is worth 150000 chickens? For what a ship? I would certainly not hope for a humanoid. a healing potion is worth 500 chickens? why don't we just play DND in terms of chickens and eggs? 12 eggs= 1 chicken. 100chickens= 1 goat, 3 goats=1 sheep 500 sheep= 1 set of plate armor. 1000 sheep=1sloop, 5000 goats=1 diamond?
this is the most senseless and useless crap system for money i have ever seen. it all changes depending on where you are
Okay, so let's first point out that this is how money works in the real world. here's a website where you can compare the cost of things, in american dollars, across the world. Here's a link to a comparison of 1kg of chicken fillets:
In Switzerland, 1kg of chicken fillets costs $27.65. In the US it's $9.10. In Brazil it's $2.40. Changing the cost of things depending on supply, demand, scarcity, abundance and the economy of the area is the way the world works. You would not expect to pay a lot for an apple in a forest of apple trees - you might expect to pay a lot for one in a desert. You don't buy ice if you live in the arctic circle; you might have to pay through the nose to get Ice in a rainforest.
Similarly; if you arrive at a large town full of inns, the cost of a room will be low because of competition between the inns. If you arrive in a hamlet with a single inn, the price is higher because there is no competition driving the price down. Same room, different place; different price.
You suggest using chickens as currency - but what about the people in the desert, where chickens can't survive? Is a chicken not worth more to them than it is to the hobbits of the shire, where the rolling hills and forests allow chickens to breed in prolific numbers? Are eggs not less valuable when you have them in abundance, vs someone living somewhere where the eggs they have are stolen by lizards?
It's also worth remembering this is a game and not a simulation. Plate armour is expensive so it is restrictive, so people don't buy plate armour after one adventure. Have you ever played a game where you got everything you wanted at the start? They end up boring. You have to save up for plate armour, then find someone who can make it for you. Plate armour is custom made to fit, and so would be expensive to commission. Buying one off-the-shelf would be extremely unlikely to fit.
As has already been stated, there is no conversion between pretend fantasy game money and real world actual money. That would be like trying to use monopoly money in real shops.
E-rage aside: the "default" prices for a lot of items as given in official D&D material are NONSENSE. Case and point:
- 1 Longsword - That's your standard, un-enchanted arming sword, a forged, manufactured item, produced from refined metals etc... - 15gp
- 1 Vial of poison - Just a vial of basic poison, which, if you hit, AND your target fails the save, 1d4 poison damage, once... so less than a dagger more often than not. And you could make by boiling the right leaves or finding the right mushroom or frog... - 100gp
This is lunacy; gp is apparently both incredibly valuable, and worthless simaltainously.
- 1 Longsword - That's your standard, un-enchanted arming sword, a forged, manufactured item, produced from refined metals etc... - 15gp
- 1 Vial of poison - Just a vial of basic poison, which, if you hit, AND your target fails the save, 1d4 poison damage, once... so less than a dagger more often than not. And you could make by boiling the right leaves or finding the right mushroom or frog... - 100gp
Literally every hamlet has a blacksmith. Not a weaponsmith, for sure, but someone who could at least credibly try to forge a sword. Smiths have their trade secrets, but the essentials of forging a blade are known by many. Swords are also items you can buy and own openly without trouble.
Poisoncraft on the other hand is pretty much secret. Which ingredients are available to make them varies wildly from one region to the next - jungle will have many plants and animals, forest may only have a few plants, mountains might only have mineral sources readily available - and you have to know both how to harvest and prepare those ingredients to create a poinson that's both effective and stable. On top of that, poisonmongers typically don't advertise their wares and skills because no honest and god-fearing person should have use for them.
That's why swords are cheap and poison isn't.
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This post comes off very ranty. I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. I came in expecting a post regarding the value of work compared to what you can sell products for, because there we have a problem with 5E. But the monetary system is fine, although having to carry 1000+ coins for some purchases is probably quite heavy.
Why are you comparing this to dollars? 1500 dollars for a fullplate isn't expensive. It's like a mid-end gaming computer. I would actually expect it to be more expensive. Full riot gear today is probably more than 1500 dollars if you want to look at it that way.
15000 is not a life time wage, it's not even a yearly wage either.
- 1 Longsword - That's your standard, un-enchanted arming sword, a forged, manufactured item, produced from refined metals etc... - 15gp
- 1 Vial of poison - Just a vial of basic poison, which, if you hit, AND your target fails the save, 1d4 poison damage, once... so less than a dagger more often than not. And you could make by boiling the right leaves or finding the right mushroom or frog... - 100gp
Literally every hamlet has a blacksmith. Not a weaponsmith, for sure, but someone who could at least credibly try to forge a sword. Smiths have their trade secrets, but the essentials of forging a blade are known by many. Swords are also items you can buy and own openly without trouble.
Poisoncraft on the other hand is pretty much secret. Which ingredients are available to make them varies wildly from one region to the next - jungle will have many plants and animals, forest may only have a few plants, mountains might only have mineral sources readily available - and you have to know both how to harvest and prepare those ingredients to create a poinson that's both effective and stable. On top of that, poisonmongers typically don't advertise their wares and skills because no honest and god-fearing person should have use for them.
That's why swords are cheap and poison isn't.
That's some bloody impressive post hoc rationalization for something that makes no sense in universe, and no sense out of universe either.
- In-universe: making a sword would take ANY smith a good chunk of resources and time to make; steel, leather, etc.
- Out of universe: the sword is functionally infinitely useful provided you don't roll a 1 and your DM makes it fall down a chasm.
- In-universe: poisons are just refined from plants, fungi or animals, any alchemist ought to be able to put that together.
- Out of universe: the poison is functionally worthless; the amount of cost and effort to add so minimal a bonus could not possibly be worth it.
No matter how you slice it: from a universe logic standpoint, or a gameplay standpoint, this is ludicrus.
To add another data point to this: from the PHB, for the same cost as 2 of those vials of poison, you can buy an elephant... a TRAINED elephant...
I hate the money System in 5e, it makes no sense whatsoever. is a gold worth 1 dollar of 10 dollars? is a silver worth 1 dollar or 10cents? it is stupid... plate armor costs 1500gp and a potion of healing costs 50 gp but if you want to buy a small vessel it is 3000 gp and if you want to buy a chariot it is 250 gp? but a candle costs 1 cp or a ride across a city cost 1 cp or to hire an underling costs 2 silver. you can buy a chicken for 3copper pieces but a room at an inn can cost 5 silver pieces up to 5 gold pieces. a goat costs 1 gold piece but a piece of meat costs 1 silver piece? this is the most senseless and useless crap system for money i have ever seen. it all changes depending on where you are and there are gems worth 1 gp or 5000 up to 25000gp?
seriously here is the fix to it you need to make the choice... is a silver worth 1 dollar or is a gold worth 1 dollar? if a gold is worth 1 dollar then a silver is worth 10cents and a copper is worth a penny. if a silver is worth a dollar then a gold is worth 10 dollars and a copper is worth 10cents. Do you really want to charge your players 1500 dollars for some plate armor or 15000? sounds pretty expensive to me people would have to work their entire lives and not be able to afford plate armor or a sword in this world, yet there are people that own ships. armor should not cost more than 500 dollars this means 500 silver or 50 gold if you are playing 1sp=$1. if you are playing 1 gp=1Dollar then it would be 500gp or 50 platinum.
another way to fix this issue is to use the 100 100 100 method. 100 cp=1 sp, 100sp=1 gp 100 gp=1pp. where 1 silver piece= $1. a diamond worth 5000gp in the players handbook would now be worth 5000silver or 50 gold. which is way closer to what you would pay today for a diamond. this makes things more accessible. a night at an inn would be 50 silver per pc.
As others have said, it does not make sense to compare real world prices to D&D prices. The level of technology and the differences in economy are totally different. Equating D&D prices to the real world would be a horrible fix, as the prices were set to be more for game balance, not to mention it would be totally setting inappropriate and immersion breaking to use real life prices.
Full plate armor is worth a fortune back in the day, as that represented the cutting edge of human technology. Chariots have been around for at least two thousand years, so I am not surprised that it is cheaper than full plate, and chariots for war have fallen out of favor due to its effectiveness being limited to flat terrain.
anyway, i just feel like the system is too broken to use and i dont like it. someone should go through and fix it and put in new amounts for items and services that actually make some sort of sense.
The prices are more for game balance than historic or economic accuracy, and I am fine with that. If you do not like it, then you will have to homebrew it in D&D just like everyone else, or you can copy someone else's homebrew.
- 1 Longsword - That's your standard, un-enchanted arming sword, a forged, manufactured item, produced from refined metals etc... - 15gp
- 1 Vial of poison - Just a vial of basic poison, which, if you hit, AND your target fails the save, 1d4 poison damage, once... so less than a dagger more often than not. And you could make by boiling the right leaves or finding the right mushroom or frog... - 100gp
Literally every hamlet has a blacksmith. Not a weaponsmith, for sure, but someone who could at least credibly try to forge a sword. Smiths have their trade secrets, but the essentials of forging a blade are known by many. Swords are also items you can buy and own openly without trouble.
Poisoncraft on the other hand is pretty much secret. Which ingredients are available to make them varies wildly from one region to the next - jungle will have many plants and animals, forest may only have a few plants, mountains might only have mineral sources readily available - and you have to know both how to harvest and prepare those ingredients to create a poinson that's both effective and stable. On top of that, poisonmongers typically don't advertise their wares and skills because no honest and god-fearing person should have use for them.
That's why swords are cheap and poison isn't.
That's some bloody impressive post hoc rationalization for something that makes no sense in universe, and no sense out of universe either.
- In-universe: making a sword would take ANY smith a good chunk of resources and time to make; steel, leather, etc.
- Out of universe: the sword is functionally infinitely useful provided you don't roll a 1 and your DM makes it fall down a chasm.
- In-universe: poisons are just refined from plants, fungi or animals, any alchemist ought to be able to put that together.
- Out of universe: the poison is functionally worthless; the amount of cost and effort to add so minimal a bonus could not possibly be worth it.
No matter how you slice it: from a universe logic standpoint, or a gameplay standpoint, this is ludicrus.
To add another data point to this: from the PHB, for the same cost as 2 of those vials of poison, you can buy an elephant... a TRAINED elephant...
The elephant's ludicrous. The rest, not so much.
"making a sword would take ANY smith a good chunk of resources and time to make; steel, leather, etc": yup, and there are many smiths doing so, often in sizeable quantities, with your average sword not even a commission item but something you can buy off the rack, making swords easy to find and affordable "poisons are just refined from plants, fungi or animals, any alchemist ought to be able to put that together": what is "just refined"? Is it not fairly esoteric knowledge to know whether something needs to be boiled or dried, how to ensure a poison doesn't lose potency, how to disguise the taste, etc? How common are alchemists, and how competitive do their rates have to be? How big is the demand for poisons, so how likely is it to find one ready made?
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E-rage aside: the "default" prices for a lot of items as given in official D&D material are NONSENSE. Case and point:
- 1 Longsword - That's your standard, un-enchanted arming sword, a forged, manufactured item, produced from refined metals etc... - 15gp
- 1 Vial of poison - Just a vial of basic poison, which, if you hit, AND your target fails the save, 1d4 poison damage, once... so less than a dagger more often than not. And you could make by boiling the right leaves or finding the right mushroom or frog... - 100gp
This is lunacy; gp is apparently both incredibly valuable, and worthless simaltainously.
It's because you are meant to be hero's, A hero doesn't use poisoned weapons, bad guys do. That's why they are both prohibitively expensive and useless
E-rage aside: the "default" prices for a lot of items as given in official D&D material are NONSENSE. Case and point:
- 1 Longsword - That's your standard, un-enchanted arming sword, a forged, manufactured item, produced from refined metals etc... - 15gp
- 1 Vial of poison - Just a vial of basic poison, which, if you hit, AND your target fails the save, 1d4 poison damage, once... so less than a dagger more often than not. And you could make by boiling the right leaves or finding the right mushroom or frog... - 100gp
This is lunacy; gp is apparently both incredibly valuable, and worthless simaltainously.
It's because you are meant to be hero's, A hero doesn't use poisoned weapons, bad guys do. That's why they are both prohibitively expensive and useless
Also, well, swords don't do damage. People use swords to do damage, often while other people are using swords to do damage to them. Using poison is comparatively easy and safe. You pay for the convenience.
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There is also a balance issue that diverges from reality many times. Some things are intended to be difficult to acquire for the purposes of gameplay.
There is also the issue of (yes, I'm doing it again) chapters 8 and 9 of the DMG. Don't like it? Change it for your game. It's allowed in the official rules. What I recommend is asking for help on how to come up with a new monetary system for your campaigns and asking for recommendations based on your intentions - realism, gameplay, modern equivalency, whatever.
I played a game where the monetary system was both coinage and resources. If you wanted something, you could offset the price with a resource the seller wanted or, sometimes, the seller wouldn't sell unless you also compensated with a resource as well as coin or just resources regardless of coin. Most of the actual vendors were obstinate in prices while traders and various commoners would negotiate. It's not written in the rules, but it's allowed all the same if the DM decides on it.
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E-rage aside: the "default" prices for a lot of items as given in official D&D material are NONSENSE. Case and point:
- 1 Longsword - That's your standard, un-enchanted arming sword, a forged, manufactured item, produced from refined metals etc... - 15gp
- 1 Vial of poison - Just a vial of basic poison, which, if you hit, AND your target fails the save, 1d4 poison damage, once... so less than a dagger more often than not. And you could make by boiling the right leaves or finding the right mushroom or frog... - 100gp
This is lunacy; gp is apparently both incredibly valuable, and worthless simaltainously.
It's because you are meant to be hero's, A hero doesn't use poisoned weapons, bad guys do. That's why they are both prohibitively expensive and useless
Yeah... except... you know: that entire archetypal class called a ROGUE...
E-rage aside: the "default" prices for a lot of items as given in official D&D material are NONSENSE. Case and point:
- 1 Longsword - That's your standard, un-enchanted arming sword, a forged, manufactured item, produced from refined metals etc... - 15gp
- 1 Vial of poison - Just a vial of basic poison, which, if you hit, AND your target fails the save, 1d4 poison damage, once... so less than a dagger more often than not. And you could make by boiling the right leaves or finding the right mushroom or frog... - 100gp
This is lunacy; gp is apparently both incredibly valuable, and worthless simaltainously.
It's because you are meant to be hero's, A hero doesn't use poisoned weapons, bad guys do. That's why they are both prohibitively expensive and useless
Yeah... except... you know: that entire archetypal class called a ROGUE...
Oh? because all rogue characters are murderers, thieves, assassins, etc? If that is how you see the character class then the issue is not with the cost of items in game.
E-rage aside: the "default" prices for a lot of items as given in official D&D material are NONSENSE. Case and point:
- 1 Longsword - That's your standard, un-enchanted arming sword, a forged, manufactured item, produced from refined metals etc... - 15gp
- 1 Vial of poison - Just a vial of basic poison, which, if you hit, AND your target fails the save, 1d4 poison damage, once... so less than a dagger more often than not. And you could make by boiling the right leaves or finding the right mushroom or frog... - 100gp
This is lunacy; gp is apparently both incredibly valuable, and worthless simaltainously.
It's because you are meant to be hero's, A hero doesn't use poisoned weapons, bad guys do. That's why they are both prohibitively expensive and useless
Yeah... except... you know: that entire archetypal class called a ROGUE...
Oh? because all rogue characters are murderers, thieves, assassins, etc? If that is how you see the character class then the issue is not with the cost of items in game.
You can't lump all of any class into a single definition - such is the diversity of life.
However, I did find it somewhat disappointing how little there was involving poisons when I decided to make a rogue character. I wanted to be a poisoner, and the poisons available are all either far beyond a starting characters price range, or they are just rubbish. And I think it's fair to say that you wouldn't expect most classes to use poison, except a rogue. You could make one, for sure (an assassin bard, a barbarian who anoints their weapons with poisonous frog venom, a ranger who uses every trick of the land against their enemies) but for stereotypical classes, if someone says "I want to use poison", people say "play a rogue". and then poison sucks, so they try something else.
This is why I am slowly working on a project to make a more in-depth poisoners cookbook. Poisons should be subtle weapons - the idea that poison is generally applied to a blade and then stabbed into the target is insane. You should be poisoning people without their realising, then they drop dead hours later. That's what poisons should do!
ok so 1 goat is worth 100 chickens and 1 night at an inn is worth 50 chickens and a diamond is worth 500000 chickens but it is only worth 5000gp or 10000nights in a hotel? and plate armor is worth 150000 chickens? For what a ship? I would certainly not hope for a humanoid. a healing potion is worth 500 chickens? why don't we just play DND in terms of chickens and eggs? 12 eggs= 1 chicken. 100chickens= 1 goat, 3 goats=1 sheep 500 sheep= 1 set of plate armor. 1000 sheep=1sloop, 5000 goats=1 diamond?
Years ago when I was DMing AD&D I simply made my own price tables ... I was fine with the equipment, but for inns, animals, potions, spells from the temple, etc.
Furthermore, as the DM, you are the one also controlling the cash flow from encounters, so if you need to ratchet things up or down, do so.
The big wrap up is... your the dm and you can do your game how you want! Don’t like the money system? Don’t demand that someone change every single dnd book, just give out your treasure differently, change the shop prices to compensate. If something about dnd is bothering you the answer that almost always works is: if your the dm, do it yourself. If you had enough energy to write that whole thing, you can probably manage making different treasure for your players. Just don’t demand that it be changed for EVERYONE because it’s how YOU like it.
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I hate the money System in 5e, it makes no sense whatsoever. is a gold worth 1 dollar of 10 dollars? is a silver worth 1 dollar or 10cents? it is stupid... plate armor costs 1500gp and a potion of healing costs 50 gp but if you want to buy a small vessel it is 3000 gp and if you want to buy a chariot it is 250 gp? but a candle costs 1 cp or a ride across a city cost 1 cp or to hire an underling costs 2 silver. you can buy a chicken for 3copper pieces but a room at an inn can cost 5 silver pieces up to 5 gold pieces. a goat costs 1 gold piece but a piece of meat costs 1 silver piece? this is the most senseless and useless crap system for money i have ever seen. it all changes depending on where you are and there are gems worth 1 gp or 5000 up to 25000gp?
seriously here is the fix to it you need to make the choice... is a silver worth 1 dollar or is a gold worth 1 dollar? if a gold is worth 1 dollar then a silver is worth 10cents and a copper is worth a penny. if a silver is worth a dollar then a gold is worth 10 dollars and a copper is worth 10cents. Do you really want to charge your players 1500 dollars for some plate armor or 15000? sounds pretty expensive to me people would have to work their entire lives and not be able to afford plate armor or a sword in this world, yet there are people that own ships. armor should not cost more than 500 dollars this means 500 silver or 50 gold if you are playing 1sp=$1. if you are playing 1 gp=1Dollar then it would be 500gp or 50 platinum.
another way to fix this issue is to use the 100 100 100 method. 100 cp=1 sp, 100sp=1 gp 100 gp=1pp. where 1 silver piece= $1. a diamond worth 5000gp in the players handbook would now be worth 5000silver or 50 gold. which is way closer to what you would pay today for a diamond. this makes things more accessible. a night at an inn would be 50 silver per pc.
anyway, i just feel like the system is too broken to use and i dont like it. someone should go through and fix it and put in new amounts for items and services that actually make some sort of sense.
Neither a gold nor a silver are worth 1 dollar. I have no idea what gave you the idea that there's a conversion rate between dnd currency and the currency of whatever country you live in that uses a currency named "dollar". Certainly, it is explicitly true that dnd 5E prices have no relation at all to 21st century Earth prices of anything, regardless of country - DnD 5E has golems and hasn't got airplanes or, in most settings, refrigeration. The closest you can come to a sound basis for arguing DnD prices from Earth prices would be something akin to middle ages Europe, and you'd still have problems because of how deeply magic impacts the economy.
You understand a 10th level Genielock can make 1,000 cubic feet of granite an hour, right? And we have no idea how common those are in a given setting? In a setting where they're common, granite should cost a pittance compared to what it would cost, say, me right now.
DnD 5E's economy is badly and deeply broken, no mistake, but you're on far more solid ground arguing from internal consistency, comparing the prices of two things within the game world (chickens are an often cited example, well-spotted).
You can't convert D&D price and value to real world price and value because not all things scale at the same rate as technology progresses.
A loaf of bread in Faerun would cost a lot more to make than it would in our world because we have massive infrastructure for mass producing bread and stocking supermarkets by the hundreds of loaves. Conversely, plate armor would likely cost similar amounts because we don't mass produce plate armor, so the same techniques and processes would be used.
There is no mapping gold or silver pieces onto real world currency because there's no parity between the value of various things.
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ok so 1 goat is worth 100 chickens and 1 night at an inn is worth 50 chickens and a diamond is worth 500000 chickens but it is only worth 5000gp or 10000nights in a hotel? and plate armor is worth 150000 chickens? For what a ship? I would certainly not hope for a humanoid. a healing potion is worth 500 chickens? why don't we just play DND in terms of chickens and eggs? 12 eggs= 1 chicken. 100chickens= 1 goat, 3 goats=1 sheep 500 sheep= 1 set of plate armor. 1000 sheep=1sloop, 5000 goats=1 diamond?
Okay, so let's first point out that this is how money works in the real world. here's a website where you can compare the cost of things, in american dollars, across the world. Here's a link to a comparison of 1kg of chicken fillets:
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=19
In Switzerland, 1kg of chicken fillets costs $27.65. In the US it's $9.10. In Brazil it's $2.40. Changing the cost of things depending on supply, demand, scarcity, abundance and the economy of the area is the way the world works. You would not expect to pay a lot for an apple in a forest of apple trees - you might expect to pay a lot for one in a desert. You don't buy ice if you live in the arctic circle; you might have to pay through the nose to get Ice in a rainforest.
Similarly; if you arrive at a large town full of inns, the cost of a room will be low because of competition between the inns. If you arrive in a hamlet with a single inn, the price is higher because there is no competition driving the price down. Same room, different place; different price.
You suggest using chickens as currency - but what about the people in the desert, where chickens can't survive? Is a chicken not worth more to them than it is to the hobbits of the shire, where the rolling hills and forests allow chickens to breed in prolific numbers? Are eggs not less valuable when you have them in abundance, vs someone living somewhere where the eggs they have are stolen by lizards?
It's also worth remembering this is a game and not a simulation. Plate armour is expensive so it is restrictive, so people don't buy plate armour after one adventure. Have you ever played a game where you got everything you wanted at the start? They end up boring. You have to save up for plate armour, then find someone who can make it for you. Plate armour is custom made to fit, and so would be expensive to commission. Buying one off-the-shelf would be extremely unlikely to fit.
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As has already been stated, there is no conversion between pretend fantasy game money and real world actual money. That would be like trying to use monopoly money in real shops.
E-rage aside: the "default" prices for a lot of items as given in official D&D material are NONSENSE. Case and point:
- 1 Longsword - That's your standard, un-enchanted arming sword, a forged, manufactured item, produced from refined metals etc... - 15gp
- 1 Vial of poison - Just a vial of basic poison, which, if you hit, AND your target fails the save, 1d4 poison damage, once... so less than a dagger more often than not. And you could make by boiling the right leaves or finding the right mushroom or frog... - 100gp
This is lunacy; gp is apparently both incredibly valuable, and worthless simaltainously.
Literally every hamlet has a blacksmith. Not a weaponsmith, for sure, but someone who could at least credibly try to forge a sword. Smiths have their trade secrets, but the essentials of forging a blade are known by many. Swords are also items you can buy and own openly without trouble.
Poisoncraft on the other hand is pretty much secret. Which ingredients are available to make them varies wildly from one region to the next - jungle will have many plants and animals, forest may only have a few plants, mountains might only have mineral sources readily available - and you have to know both how to harvest and prepare those ingredients to create a poinson that's both effective and stable. On top of that, poisonmongers typically don't advertise their wares and skills because no honest and god-fearing person should have use for them.
That's why swords are cheap and poison isn't.
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This post comes off very ranty. I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. I came in expecting a post regarding the value of work compared to what you can sell products for, because there we have a problem with 5E. But the monetary system is fine, although having to carry 1000+ coins for some purchases is probably quite heavy.
Why are you comparing this to dollars? 1500 dollars for a fullplate isn't expensive. It's like a mid-end gaming computer. I would actually expect it to be more expensive. Full riot gear today is probably more than 1500 dollars if you want to look at it that way.
15000 is not a life time wage, it's not even a yearly wage either.
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That's some bloody impressive post hoc rationalization for something that makes no sense in universe, and no sense out of universe either.
- In-universe: making a sword would take ANY smith a good chunk of resources and time to make; steel, leather, etc.
- Out of universe: the sword is functionally infinitely useful provided you don't roll a 1 and your DM makes it fall down a chasm.
- In-universe: poisons are just refined from plants, fungi or animals, any alchemist ought to be able to put that together.
- Out of universe: the poison is functionally worthless; the amount of cost and effort to add so minimal a bonus could not possibly be worth it.
No matter how you slice it: from a universe logic standpoint, or a gameplay standpoint, this is ludicrus.
To add another data point to this: from the PHB, for the same cost as 2 of those vials of poison, you can buy an elephant... a TRAINED elephant...
As others have said, it does not make sense to compare real world prices to D&D prices. The level of technology and the differences in economy are totally different. Equating D&D prices to the real world would be a horrible fix, as the prices were set to be more for game balance, not to mention it would be totally setting inappropriate and immersion breaking to use real life prices.
Full plate armor is worth a fortune back in the day, as that represented the cutting edge of human technology. Chariots have been around for at least two thousand years, so I am not surprised that it is cheaper than full plate, and chariots for war have fallen out of favor due to its effectiveness being limited to flat terrain.
The prices are more for game balance than historic or economic accuracy, and I am fine with that. If you do not like it, then you will have to homebrew it in D&D just like everyone else, or you can copy someone else's homebrew.
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The elephant's ludicrous. The rest, not so much.
"making a sword would take ANY smith a good chunk of resources and time to make; steel, leather, etc": yup, and there are many smiths doing so, often in sizeable quantities, with your average sword not even a commission item but something you can buy off the rack, making swords easy to find and affordable
"poisons are just refined from plants, fungi or animals, any alchemist ought to be able to put that together": what is "just refined"? Is it not fairly esoteric knowledge to know whether something needs to be boiled or dried, how to ensure a poison doesn't lose potency, how to disguise the taste, etc? How common are alchemists, and how competitive do their rates have to be? How big is the demand for poisons, so how likely is it to find one ready made?
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It's because you are meant to be hero's, A hero doesn't use poisoned weapons, bad guys do. That's why they are both prohibitively expensive and useless
Also, well, swords don't do damage. People use swords to do damage, often while other people are using swords to do damage to them. Using poison is comparatively easy and safe. You pay for the convenience.
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There is also a balance issue that diverges from reality many times. Some things are intended to be difficult to acquire for the purposes of gameplay.
There is also the issue of (yes, I'm doing it again) chapters 8 and 9 of the DMG. Don't like it? Change it for your game. It's allowed in the official rules. What I recommend is asking for help on how to come up with a new monetary system for your campaigns and asking for recommendations based on your intentions - realism, gameplay, modern equivalency, whatever.
I played a game where the monetary system was both coinage and resources. If you wanted something, you could offset the price with a resource the seller wanted or, sometimes, the seller wouldn't sell unless you also compensated with a resource as well as coin or just resources regardless of coin. Most of the actual vendors were obstinate in prices while traders and various commoners would negotiate. It's not written in the rules, but it's allowed all the same if the DM decides on it.
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Yeah... except... you know: that entire archetypal class called a ROGUE...
Oh? because all rogue characters are murderers, thieves, assassins, etc? If that is how you see the character class then the issue is not with the cost of items in game.
You can't lump all of any class into a single definition - such is the diversity of life.
However, I did find it somewhat disappointing how little there was involving poisons when I decided to make a rogue character. I wanted to be a poisoner, and the poisons available are all either far beyond a starting characters price range, or they are just rubbish. And I think it's fair to say that you wouldn't expect most classes to use poison, except a rogue. You could make one, for sure (an assassin bard, a barbarian who anoints their weapons with poisonous frog venom, a ranger who uses every trick of the land against their enemies) but for stereotypical classes, if someone says "I want to use poison", people say "play a rogue". and then poison sucks, so they try something else.
This is why I am slowly working on a project to make a more in-depth poisoners cookbook. Poisons should be subtle weapons - the idea that poison is generally applied to a blade and then stabbed into the target is insane. You should be poisoning people without their realising, then they drop dead hours later. That's what poisons should do!
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Years ago when I was DMing AD&D I simply made my own price tables ... I was fine with the equipment, but for inns, animals, potions, spells from the temple, etc.
Furthermore, as the DM, you are the one also controlling the cash flow from encounters, so if you need to ratchet things up or down, do so.
The big wrap up is... your the dm and you can do your game how you want! Don’t like the money system? Don’t demand that someone change every single dnd book, just give out your treasure differently, change the shop prices to compensate. If something about dnd is bothering you the answer that almost always works is: if your the dm, do it yourself. If you had enough energy to write that whole thing, you can probably manage making different treasure for your players. Just don’t demand that it be changed for EVERYONE because it’s how YOU like it.