I assume it's because they'd like to use the variant "Proficiency Die" rule in the PHB(?) rather than the fixed proficiency number. It's a seldom-discussed option, but it is technically an official optional rule in the books.
Sorry, Eightyocho. Proficiency Die is currently not supported on DDB's character sheet and likely will not be for quite some time. Things like Proficiency Die require them to do finicky coding to sections of the website they normally consider fixed and unchanging, which means they're extremely low priority requests given how seldom players use such rules.
I've always wanted to try playing with Proficiency Dice instead of a flat Proficiency Bonus. I don't know if I'd end up liking it better, but it's an interesting alternative.
I just like to find any official optional rules which would add more layers of realism to the game... although I still have yet to play. 😞
By the way, it’s in the DMG page 263
So speaking as a group who has used them? It's.....not fun?
I like the concept of proficiency, where it's just "Hey, my character is just this good at things they know how to do reliably." For a level 9 character with expertise on perception and capped Wisdom, the roll looks like this: 1d20 + 2d8 + 5. If you add guidance, add a d4. I don't feel its "right" for a level 9 character to potentially get an 8(9 lowest with guidance) on a perception roll when they're experts in it. Their passive perception is still an 18, and prof dice doesn't change passives. I love RNG, but at the same time I love the ability to simplify it and go "Just roll one die, tell me the number" as a DM. From a player perspective, its just "Hey, roll one die" as well.
It also just adds more math to the game at ALL points. Attack rolls are no longer just d20s, they d20 plus prof die. Imagine being the fighter, rolling a 12, having a +5 STR, and then getting a 1 on your prof die, so now the roll is a 18 and it misses the monster. 18 is normally really good, and now its....a miss that could have been a 21 if it were normal prof bonuses.
Summary, not a fan. I think its a cool concept, but I won't be using it again.
I hear you on this but the funny thing is you almost had me until your last example which I think is cool because I feel like it'll be closer to "real life". If this example makes sense, it's like expecting Michael Jordan to hit every single shot he takes verses him making most of his shots but he's going to have a few misses.
I may not be looking forward to doing the math but I think once I start playing & really get into it that I may look at doing more math as a plus... to my life personally (just sharpening that which should be a basic skillset).
In the old WEG Star Wars RPG, I think 2nd edition maybe revised expanded edition, it's skill dice system had a wild die (think the nat 20 and nat 1 rule some house rule in d20 games, but with greater flexibility). Like the Michael Jordan analogy, they use the wild die mechanic as a way to see how a super rogue scoundrel smooth operator type like Han Solo can blow a stealth roll and snap a twig alerting the Scout Trooper before the bike chase in Return of the Jedi.
If your mind's open to it, when rolling pools of d6s or whatever, you eventually get past doing math and actually develop an ability to just read what you got when they roll. I think there's some number wiring in the brain that makes things like dice pools as well as the ability to count change from a register for example reflexive if you allow yourself to get comfortable with it. Most folks though bring up blockers when numbers show up.
Nothing is every really wrong if you got an open minded table when you say, "Hey, folks lets try this one differently, and if we like it we can stick with it, but let's just see how this flows for the session." And if in the after game folks are like, "that was cool" or "heck no, we're not doing that again" then you know.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I think this is more a function of bad roll requests. Overwhelmingly, I find most times players say "do I see..." We should just give them a straight answer, especially when there's no planned drama.
I am starting a Epic Heroism campaign up using prof die, and it makes for some really interesting and dynamic moments from my early testing. I agree, fwiw, that rolling a 1 in your prof die feels real bad, so I'm also using Hero points and awarding them whenever someone rolls a 1 on their prof die. This helps alleviate the sickness and creates a fail forward dynamic that works well for a game more oriented around superheroics than heroic fantasy.
It's also fair to say that I don't especially care for the default Monster Math. If you roll an 18 on the die, you hit 99% of the monsters in my games. But sometimes, you know, you roll a 16 with no stat bonus and roll a 1 on your prof die, hey sorry. That's the way the cookie crumbles. Here's a "change the game forever" chip in exchange for your little slice of bad luck.
One of the common customs of the internet is that when something is in all capital letters, it's considered "shouting".
As ever, attempts to add "realism" to a fantasy game really never work out. All they do is add complexity. They slow the game down if nothing else, and it's usually less fun for the players if for no other reason that that. It is also true that the purpose of rules in games is so that once you know them, you can play the same game from table to table. The more options that are piled on the harder it is to play the same or a similar character in someone else's game.
Eventually, you end up with something that doesn't really resemble D&D, and once you get there, why not use a game more suited to what you had in mind?
eightyocho - Since I've seen a bunch of your posts and I know you're gearing up for your first game, my advice would be don't do this now. Don't add more complexity especially if your players are new as well. Get your feet wet, then decide if you want to change things up. You may also want to ask your players about it first. There's a reason most people don't play this way so make sure you know what your getting into before you do it.
There's a bunch of optional rules that can be added, and homebrew stuff that people think up to make D&D more real. That doesn't necessarily mean more fun for everyone. A lot of 5e rules were designed to keep the game moving at the expense of some realism because they thought it was more fun. I played a game (different system) recently that was designed to be gritty and more realistic. Wounds, encumbrance, resource management, etc. and it just felt hard to do anything, let alone anything well.
I'll put it this way: The salad bar looks great, but that doesn't mean you want everything on your plate at the same time. Try a little bit, and then go back for more :)
Hello all
Is there a way to toggle/activate the variant rule on Proficiency Bonus on the DND Beyond player app?
probably not. I'm sure that's on their list, though, but their list is miles high.
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Is there a reason you want to do this? It's a curious request.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I assume it's because they'd like to use the variant "Proficiency Die" rule in the PHB(?) rather than the fixed proficiency number. It's a seldom-discussed option, but it is technically an official optional rule in the books.
Sorry, Eightyocho. Proficiency Die is currently not supported on DDB's character sheet and likely will not be for quite some time. Things like Proficiency Die require them to do finicky coding to sections of the website they normally consider fixed and unchanging, which means they're extremely low priority requests given how seldom players use such rules.
Please do not contact or message me.
Or they might be wanting to do an optional feature from Tasha's or the Dungeon Master's Workshop in the DMG.
Yeah. I came across this variant rule in the DMG & liked it a lot.
I've always wanted to try playing with Proficiency Dice instead of a flat Proficiency Bonus. I don't know if I'd end up liking it better, but it's an interesting alternative.
Now I'm curious.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I just like to find any official optional rules which would add more layers of realism to the game... although I still have yet to play. 😞
By the way, it’s in the DMG page 263
Chapter also please =) DDB doesn't have page numbers.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
How about a link?
First page of chapter 9
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/dungeon-masters-workshop#AbilityOptions
So speaking as a group who has used them? It's.....not fun?
I like the concept of proficiency, where it's just "Hey, my character is just this good at things they know how to do reliably." For a level 9 character with expertise on perception and capped Wisdom, the roll looks like this: 1d20 + 2d8 + 5. If you add guidance, add a d4. I don't feel its "right" for a level 9 character to potentially get an 8(9 lowest with guidance) on a perception roll when they're experts in it. Their passive perception is still an 18, and prof dice doesn't change passives. I love RNG, but at the same time I love the ability to simplify it and go "Just roll one die, tell me the number" as a DM. From a player perspective, its just "Hey, roll one die" as well.
It also just adds more math to the game at ALL points. Attack rolls are no longer just d20s, they d20 plus prof die. Imagine being the fighter, rolling a 12, having a +5 STR, and then getting a 1 on your prof die, so now the roll is a 18 and it misses the monster. 18 is normally really good, and now its....a miss that could have been a 21 if it were normal prof bonuses.
Summary, not a fan. I think its a cool concept, but I won't be using it again.
I hear you on this but the funny thing is you almost had me until your last example which I think is cool because I feel like it'll be closer to "real life". If this example makes sense, it's like expecting Michael Jordan to hit every single shot he takes verses him making most of his shots but he's going to have a few misses.
I may not be looking forward to doing the math but I think once I start playing & really get into it that I may look at doing more math as a plus... to my life personally (just sharpening that which should be a basic skillset).
Thanks for your input regardless.
In the old WEG Star Wars RPG, I think 2nd edition maybe revised expanded edition, it's skill dice system had a wild die (think the nat 20 and nat 1 rule some house rule in d20 games, but with greater flexibility). Like the Michael Jordan analogy, they use the wild die mechanic as a way to see how a super rogue scoundrel smooth operator type like Han Solo can blow a stealth roll and snap a twig alerting the Scout Trooper before the bike chase in Return of the Jedi.
If your mind's open to it, when rolling pools of d6s or whatever, you eventually get past doing math and actually develop an ability to just read what you got when they roll. I think there's some number wiring in the brain that makes things like dice pools as well as the ability to count change from a register for example reflexive if you allow yourself to get comfortable with it. Most folks though bring up blockers when numbers show up.
Nothing is every really wrong if you got an open minded table when you say, "Hey, folks lets try this one differently, and if we like it we can stick with it, but let's just see how this flows for the session." And if in the after game folks are like, "that was cool" or "heck no, we're not doing that again" then you know.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I think this is more a function of bad roll requests. Overwhelmingly, I find most times players say "do I see..." We should just give them a straight answer, especially when there's no planned drama.
I am starting a Epic Heroism campaign up using prof die, and it makes for some really interesting and dynamic moments from my early testing. I agree, fwiw, that rolling a 1 in your prof die feels real bad, so I'm also using Hero points and awarding them whenever someone rolls a 1 on their prof die. This helps alleviate the sickness and creates a fail forward dynamic that works well for a game more oriented around superheroics than heroic fantasy.
It's also fair to say that I don't especially care for the default Monster Math. If you roll an 18 on the die, you hit 99% of the monsters in my games. But sometimes, you know, you roll a 16 with no stat bonus and roll a 1 on your prof die, hey sorry. That's the way the cookie crumbles. Here's a "change the game forever" chip in exchange for your little slice of bad luck.
One of the common customs of the internet is that when something is in all capital letters, it's considered "shouting".
As ever, attempts to add "realism" to a fantasy game really never work out. All they do is add complexity. They slow the game down if nothing else, and it's usually less fun for the players if for no other reason that that. It is also true that the purpose of rules in games is so that once you know them, you can play the same game from table to table. The more options that are piled on the harder it is to play the same or a similar character in someone else's game.
Eventually, you end up with something that doesn't really resemble D&D, and once you get there, why not use a game more suited to what you had in mind?
<Insert clever signature here>
eightyocho - Since I've seen a bunch of your posts and I know you're gearing up for your first game, my advice would be don't do this now. Don't add more complexity especially if your players are new as well. Get your feet wet, then decide if you want to change things up. You may also want to ask your players about it first. There's a reason most people don't play this way so make sure you know what your getting into before you do it.
There's a bunch of optional rules that can be added, and homebrew stuff that people think up to make D&D more real. That doesn't necessarily mean more fun for everyone. A lot of 5e rules were designed to keep the game moving at the expense of some realism because they thought it was more fun. I played a game (different system) recently that was designed to be gritty and more realistic. Wounds, encumbrance, resource management, etc. and it just felt hard to do anything, let alone anything well.
I'll put it this way: The salad bar looks great, but that doesn't mean you want everything on your plate at the same time. Try a little bit, and then go back for more :)
Just now reading your advice
Thank you 🙏🏾