I know that the first thing that comes to mind when one reads the title is, 'Yes.', and I would agree. But this is a circumstance where I don't know if it's the right thing to do.
First off, I'd like to mention that I apologize because it's the right thing to do, not to ask for forgiveness, though there are a lot instances where I don't because I just can't face them anymore, but I do try to as often as I can.
Anyways, the story goes like this. After being bored for several months, I decided to try joining a dnd game online. It took a few days, but I was eventually able to find one. This situation happened in the that game in the 5th session, which was last week. It was a beginner module, so I decided that might be fun to try it out. The scheduling was iffy and with someone quitting even before we started because the DM wasn't going to have a session 0 as it was a pre-written beginner module and he basically forced the DM to use standard array for our group when we're making our characters even though he wanted us to roll for them. According to the DM, he wanted to keep adding stuff in even though it was a pre-written and the DM wasn't planning to change anything as of yet. I'm mentioning this series of events for a reason.
The actual situation that I wanted to talk about is about this player who left last session because of me. Now for some context. This guy, whose name I'm not gonna mention for obvious reasons and also because I don't know his real name, was really hard to play with, at least to me, and I think the feeling may have been mutual after the 2nd session. He was obviously a new player as this game was meant for, so he didn't have much of a grasp of how to play as well, as well as some of the combat mechanics, which I'm not gonna blame him for. The thing is, there are many times where he can't take a hint, he'd always try to get as much information that he wanted as possible even though we've kept establishing that no one knows the exact information. He kept wanting to ask where the castle is even though we kept saying that no one knows where it is, just that it's up north. He kept wanting to ask how many bandits there were even though the blacksmith kept telling him that he doesn't know as there are many different bandits and not all of them came to rob him. He wanted to ask the same question to the bandit that we knocked out, which is smart, but at the same time he kept doing that over and over again that I just got frustrated. That was on me though. The first instance of our 'conflict' was when we were interogating said bandits, and he wanted to rest as he was the only one to take damage and he wanted to get his second wind back. He even specified that he was snoring loudly on the couch for some reason. While I was asking my questions, he then told me to ask the bandit how many of them are there, which I got frustrated and told him to shut up because he was sleeping. Now, that was totally on me, but it was just grating just hearing him say that over and over again and it just slipped out. It wasn't like a really loud one, more monotone than anything, but I still shouldn't have done that. Then, he proceeded to text in the chat and told me to not get angry because I'm not the only player, and I agree, it's just that got me really frustrated. I apologized in that moment. I know it sounds like I don't have a lot of patience, and I don't, but I try to tolerate those who are clearly new players, so I was trying my best here, but that annoyance wasn't even because he was a new player, at least in my eyes, it was something else, moreso about his personality than anything.
Anyways, it's a long read, I know, but I'm getting there so bear with me. In the last session, his character died after jumping into a battle with 3 orcs, when in reality it was 5 orcs, where 2 of them hit normally and 2 of them crit. He died in the first turn the orcs attack. It was hilarious and also mortifying to all of us. He wasn't salty, though, as he knew he could just roll up a new character to the same level. After the fight, we all put a funeral for them. I decided to dump my complaints about him in funeral speech form. I didn't do it out of malice or anything, it was more for fun and I did a slightly sarcastic voice with that, and it was barely 2 minutes, it probably would've been 1 minute if I don't stutter like I do. Like I said, the guy annoyed me, but I didn't say these things for mean-spirited reasons. I was being mean, but in more in a fun way. I know, that's not much of a justification, but it's there. We ended the session shortly after being introduced to his next character because it was getting late and we did enough stuff. After the session, and when I was sleeping because time zone differences, he posted a message in the general lobby saying that he's leaving because of me. In said message, he called me a 'hate guy' and that I was 'stupid'. He said that my life mess isn't the game's motto to handle, whatever that means. Saying that I used other people as pawns instead of actually playing with them. Saying that the speech I gave to his character was 'a blatant hate speech'. As if that wasn't enough, he also called out the DM for not moderating the situation. He ended it by calling me a hate guy again and that I'm stupid and everyone deserves to know it.
Ok, first off, everyone already knows I'm stupid. Why do you think I try to shape cookies into letters without shapers? Jokes aside, I found out later when messaging the DM that he told the DM that DM'ing isn't about just controlling monsters, even though he has done a decent job in setting the story for us all things considered, (he's new at DM'ing), and that he wanted the DM to throw thunder at my character to kill me or something.
Now, I don't want to promote a smear campaign against him or anything, but that last message was just such a childish and plain awful way to go, and the reason for it was because I was making a hate speech at his funeral? My speech was mean and disrespectful, sure, I'll admit to my sins, but calling it a hate speech is far from the truth. It didn't even last long. And worse off, he was disrespectful to the DM from the context that I was given. And probably the worst thing is, that I'm pretty sure he's not a minor, I've heard him say that he has an office job, meaning that at least he's a middle schooler with an internship, but I doubt that. Overall, I don't know what to do. Part of me wants to apologize, but part of me says that he doesn't deserve it. Obviously, context is everything, so answering from a very outside perspective is almost unreliable, but I just need help with this. Next game is tomorrow and I just need closure. Thank you to those who've read till the end. Appreciate it.
Yes, you need to apologize. Making a two minute speech basically about how a new guy is bad at the game and trashing talking is OOC behaviour, in game? Yeah, that's not a nice thing to do. Not sure what you wouldn't want to ask for forgiveness though, since that *is* actually the *right* thing to do. Otehrwise it's not really an apology.
Depending on what the person said in the lobby, he might also have some apologizing to do, though.
I think that you clearly both did some things wrong, and maybe your play styles just conflict. Sometimes play styles conflict enough that people just shouldn't play together, because they won't be happy.
I think it was a bad idea to put your gripes against the person into your "eulogy." There is a general opinion that many people hold in real life, that you shouldn't speak ill of the dead as a matter of courtesy -- they can't speak up to defend themselves, so it's considered unsporting. Similarly here, the guy's character had just died, and whether he seemed OK with "just rolling up another one," it can't have been super fun for him, and then for you, with him listening, to talk smack about the now-dead character, even if it was done somewhat humorously, that's pretty bad form. Especially true if you and the other player have been experiencing some out-of-character friction. Additionally, it's never a good idea to bring out of character issues into the RP -- you have to keep OOC, and IC separate. You blended them here... that is not a good idea.
This player seems like he also has issues, based on what he said to the DM, and I am not saying he didn't do anything wrong. He shouldn't have called you names either. It seems like you both had some sour grapes you decided to air -- again, not a good idea.
My view on this is that yes, you should apologize to the group, for making a funeral speech that was unsporting. And if you find that you just can't play with this person (assuming he even comes back), then maybe you should just leave the group.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Hmmm, first kudos for explaining all that and being humble about it. There are many reasons in general to ask for forgiveness, and I might not agree with your introductory paragraph on a personal basis, but let's work under that principle nonetheless.
The first thing is that although you should be able to play with anyone, it's not actually the case, some personalities don't mix together and that's a fact of life. So you mutually annoyed each other, hard to avoid with conflicting personalities.
On the other hand, it's the problem with playing online with unknown people, you don't know where their sensibilities are, and you need to be extra careful with these, especially with new players who might not know what to expect and how to react to these situations.
That being said, when something does not work in a game, it should be discussed out of the game, not in character because it messes up things. And second, even though you did it in a humoristic way, it actually probably made things worse. It's the same thing, you can laugh about anything, but not with every one.
There are things that cannot be avoided, and others which can be, and these last two are, IMHO, the two things that you could apologise for, something like "I'm more experienced in this than you and the DM and I should really have spoken to you out of the game to sort things out, I'll do that next time" and "I should not have made fun of these" are simple enough apologies, and things that might make the whole group and the individual think about how to behave in a gaming group.
Just my two cents, but how does this sound ?
In any case, quite brave of you to come out like this, so good luck in any case.
Thank you, but I think you're giving me way too much credit. Writing and voicing out your frustrations isn't hard, working it out is, and I'm actively avoiding the latter for a week now. Thank you for being modest about it, and you're right. These kind of conflicts happen and there's nothing one can do about it. But forgive me if I don't use your example.
Yes, you need to apologize. Making a two minute speech basically about how a new guy is bad at the game and trashing talking is OOC behaviour, in game? Yeah, that's not a nice thing to do. Not sure what you wouldn't want to ask for forgiveness though, since that *is* actually the *right* thing to do. Otehrwise it's not really an apology.
Depending on what the person said in the lobby, he might also have some apologizing to do, though.
Thank you for being brutally honest about it. I needed that. Though apologizing and asking for forgiveness aren't always the same. Asking for forgiveness is a subset of apologizing, if you know what I mean. It means that you're apologizing if you ask for forgiveness, but you're not necessarily asking for forgiveness every time you apologize, if that makes sense. But yeah, you're right, that wasn't cool, though I wasn't trash talking per se. But thank you for the honesty.
I think that you clearly both did some things wrong, and maybe your play styles just conflict. Sometimes play styles conflict enough that people just shouldn't play together, because they won't be happy.
I think it was a bad idea to put your gripes against the person into your "eulogy." There is a general opinion that many people hold in real life, that you shouldn't speak ill of the dead as a matter of courtesy -- they can't speak up to defend themselves, so it's considered unsporting. Similarly here, the guy's character had just died, and whether he seemed OK with "just rolling up another one," it can't have been super fun for him, and then for you, with him listening, to talk smack about the now-dead character, even if it was done somewhat humorously, that's pretty bad form. Especially true if you and the other player have been experiencing some out-of-character friction. Additionally, it's never a good idea to bring out of character issues into the RP -- you have to keep OOC, and IC separate. You blended them here... that is not a good idea.
This player seems like he also has issues, based on what he said to the DM, and I am not saying he didn't do anything wrong. He shouldn't have called you names either. It seems like you both had some sour grapes you decided to air -- again, not a good idea.
My view on this is that yes, you should apologize to the group, for making a funeral speech that was unsporting. And if you find that you just can't play with this person (assuming he even comes back), then maybe you should just leave the group.
You make good points, and you've taught me the word 'eulogy'. Anyways, not much that I can say here because the other have already said it, but thanks for the input. Appreciate it.
Overall, you guys have given your inputs to apologize, and I'll apologize. It's been a while coming anyway. It'll be a load off of my conciousness. While I do disagree with some of your points, I agree with the fact that I should definitely apologize. Thank you everyone for your input and I'll try and apologize later, cause I'm a coward. I'll be posting a reply here detailing how it went, so I hope to see you all reply too. If I could, I'd send you all cookies. Wish me luck!
Good rule of thumb: it's only "good-natured ribbing" when the person you're teasing is someone you have an especially good relationship with. If your relationship is already on tenterhooks, then your attempted roast is just going to come off as overly antagonistic.
It's hard to do a remote diagnosis of interpersonal events without hearing all sides (including bystanders).
That being said, from what I read from you, you may have been better off to be more diplomatic about issues.
But what I really wanted to address (and consider this a rant) is, I take an apology to be an acknowledgement of having made a mistake. That heavily implies the ask for forgiveness, and the promise to learn from that mistake and to at least try not to repeat it.
If you apologize without the ask for forgiveness, it is just a token without meaning. If that is how you feel about it, it would be more honest to not apologize. If you don't feel like you did anything wrong, then there is no point to apologizing.
So the question if you should apologize to me is, do you feel you did something wrong and would like the group's forgiveness about you acting wrongly?
I think you should apologize. The eulogy was uncalled for.
As far as the apologize without asking for forgiveness, I disagree. You apologize because your behavior was wrong and an apology is the right thing to do. Forgiveness is up to the other person to either give or not give. I'll not ask for it even though I am sorry for my actions. In most cases I don't care about forgiveness, I care about doing what I feel is the right thing to do.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
It's hard to do a remote diagnosis of interpersonal events without hearing all sides (including bystanders).
That being said, from what I read from you, you may have been better off to be more diplomatic about issues.
But what I really wanted to address (and consider this a rant) is, I take an apology to be an acknowledgement of having made a mistake. That heavily implies the ask for forgiveness, and the promise to learn from that mistake and to at least try not to repeat it.
If you apologize without the ask for forgiveness, it is just a token without meaning. If that is how you feel about it, it would be more honest to not apologize. If you don't feel like you did anything wrong, then there is no point to apologizing.
So the question if you should apologize to me is, do you feel you did something wrong and would like the group's forgiveness about you acting wrongly?
Well, of course I do. But to me asking for forgiveness should only be when you feel like you deserve it. Obviously there's a lot of holes in that logic and you're free to disagree, but I simply don't ask for forgiveness because I don't feel like I deserve it. I'm gonna be as modest and earnest about it as possible, of course. I don't think that's a token without meaning, it just means that I don't feel like I deserve forgiveness. If he does forgive me, however, I would be very grateful, and if he gives a condition, I'll do it. That's it. Thank you for your input, though.
I think you should apologize. The eulogy was uncalled for.
As far as the apologize without asking for forgiveness, I disagree. You apologize because your behavior was wrong and an apology is the right thing to do. Forgiveness is up to the other person to either give or not give. I'll not ask for it even though I am sorry for my actions. In most cases I don't care about forgiveness, I care about doing what I feel is the right thing to do.
Well, I share the sentiment, so I'm not sure about what you mean by disagree. In any case, I'm grateful for the input. Thank you.
It's hard to do a remote diagnosis of interpersonal events without hearing all sides (including bystanders).
That being said, from what I read from you, you may have been better off to be more diplomatic about issues.
But what I really wanted to address (and consider this a rant) is, I take an apology to be an acknowledgement of having made a mistake. That heavily implies the ask for forgiveness, and the promise to learn from that mistake and to at least try not to repeat it.
If you apologize without the ask for forgiveness, it is just a token without meaning. If that is how you feel about it, it would be more honest to not apologize. If you don't feel like you did anything wrong, then there is no point to apologizing.
So the question if you should apologize to me is, do you feel you did something wrong and would like the group's forgiveness about you acting wrongly?
Well, of course I do. But to me asking for forgiveness should only be when you feel like you deserve it. Obviously there's a lot of holes in that logic and you're free to disagree, but I simply don't ask for forgiveness because I don't feel like I deserve it. I'm gonna be as modest and earnest about it as possible, of course. I don't think that's a token without meaning, it just means that I don't feel like I deserve forgiveness. If he does forgive me, however, I would be very grateful, and if he gives a condition, I'll do it. That's it. Thank you for your input, though.
I think you should apologize. The eulogy was uncalled for.
As far as the apologize without asking for forgiveness, I disagree. You apologize because your behavior was wrong and an apology is the right thing to do. Forgiveness is up to the other person to either give or not give. I'll not ask for it even though I am sorry for my actions. In most cases I don't care about forgiveness, I care about doing what I feel is the right thing to do.
Well, I share the sentiment, so I'm not sure about what you mean by disagree. In any case, I'm grateful for the input. Thank you.
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I know that the first thing that comes to mind when one reads the title is, 'Yes.', and I would agree. But this is a circumstance where I don't know if it's the right thing to do.
First off, I'd like to mention that I apologize because it's the right thing to do, not to ask for forgiveness, though there are a lot instances where I don't because I just can't face them anymore, but I do try to as often as I can.
Anyways, the story goes like this. After being bored for several months, I decided to try joining a dnd game online. It took a few days, but I was eventually able to find one. This situation happened in the that game in the 5th session, which was last week. It was a beginner module, so I decided that might be fun to try it out. The scheduling was iffy and with someone quitting even before we started because the DM wasn't going to have a session 0 as it was a pre-written beginner module and he basically forced the DM to use standard array for our group when we're making our characters even though he wanted us to roll for them. According to the DM, he wanted to keep adding stuff in even though it was a pre-written and the DM wasn't planning to change anything as of yet. I'm mentioning this series of events for a reason.
The actual situation that I wanted to talk about is about this player who left last session because of me. Now for some context. This guy, whose name I'm not gonna mention for obvious reasons and also because I don't know his real name, was really hard to play with, at least to me, and I think the feeling may have been mutual after the 2nd session. He was obviously a new player as this game was meant for, so he didn't have much of a grasp of how to play as well, as well as some of the combat mechanics, which I'm not gonna blame him for. The thing is, there are many times where he can't take a hint, he'd always try to get as much information that he wanted as possible even though we've kept establishing that no one knows the exact information. He kept wanting to ask where the castle is even though we kept saying that no one knows where it is, just that it's up north. He kept wanting to ask how many bandits there were even though the blacksmith kept telling him that he doesn't know as there are many different bandits and not all of them came to rob him. He wanted to ask the same question to the bandit that we knocked out, which is smart, but at the same time he kept doing that over and over again that I just got frustrated. That was on me though. The first instance of our 'conflict' was when we were interogating said bandits, and he wanted to rest as he was the only one to take damage and he wanted to get his second wind back. He even specified that he was snoring loudly on the couch for some reason. While I was asking my questions, he then told me to ask the bandit how many of them are there, which I got frustrated and told him to shut up because he was sleeping. Now, that was totally on me, but it was just grating just hearing him say that over and over again and it just slipped out. It wasn't like a really loud one, more monotone than anything, but I still shouldn't have done that. Then, he proceeded to text in the chat and told me to not get angry because I'm not the only player, and I agree, it's just that got me really frustrated. I apologized in that moment. I know it sounds like I don't have a lot of patience, and I don't, but I try to tolerate those who are clearly new players, so I was trying my best here, but that annoyance wasn't even because he was a new player, at least in my eyes, it was something else, moreso about his personality than anything.
Anyways, it's a long read, I know, but I'm getting there so bear with me. In the last session, his character died after jumping into a battle with 3 orcs, when in reality it was 5 orcs, where 2 of them hit normally and 2 of them crit. He died in the first turn the orcs attack. It was hilarious and also mortifying to all of us. He wasn't salty, though, as he knew he could just roll up a new character to the same level. After the fight, we all put a funeral for them. I decided to dump my complaints about him in funeral speech form. I didn't do it out of malice or anything, it was more for fun and I did a slightly sarcastic voice with that, and it was barely 2 minutes, it probably would've been 1 minute if I don't stutter like I do. Like I said, the guy annoyed me, but I didn't say these things for mean-spirited reasons. I was being mean, but in more in a fun way. I know, that's not much of a justification, but it's there. We ended the session shortly after being introduced to his next character because it was getting late and we did enough stuff. After the session, and when I was sleeping because time zone differences, he posted a message in the general lobby saying that he's leaving because of me. In said message, he called me a 'hate guy' and that I was 'stupid'. He said that my life mess isn't the game's motto to handle, whatever that means. Saying that I used other people as pawns instead of actually playing with them. Saying that the speech I gave to his character was 'a blatant hate speech'. As if that wasn't enough, he also called out the DM for not moderating the situation. He ended it by calling me a hate guy again and that I'm stupid and everyone deserves to know it.
Ok, first off, everyone already knows I'm stupid. Why do you think I try to shape cookies into letters without shapers? Jokes aside, I found out later when messaging the DM that he told the DM that DM'ing isn't about just controlling monsters, even though he has done a decent job in setting the story for us all things considered, (he's new at DM'ing), and that he wanted the DM to throw thunder at my character to kill me or something.
Now, I don't want to promote a smear campaign against him or anything, but that last message was just such a childish and plain awful way to go, and the reason for it was because I was making a hate speech at his funeral? My speech was mean and disrespectful, sure, I'll admit to my sins, but calling it a hate speech is far from the truth. It didn't even last long. And worse off, he was disrespectful to the DM from the context that I was given. And probably the worst thing is, that I'm pretty sure he's not a minor, I've heard him say that he has an office job, meaning that at least he's a middle schooler with an internship, but I doubt that. Overall, I don't know what to do. Part of me wants to apologize, but part of me says that he doesn't deserve it. Obviously, context is everything, so answering from a very outside perspective is almost unreliable, but I just need help with this. Next game is tomorrow and I just need closure. Thank you to those who've read till the end. Appreciate it.
Yes, you need to apologize. Making a two minute speech basically about how a new guy is bad at the game and trashing talking is OOC behaviour, in game? Yeah, that's not a nice thing to do. Not sure what you wouldn't want to ask for forgiveness though, since that *is* actually the *right* thing to do. Otehrwise it's not really an apology.
Depending on what the person said in the lobby, he might also have some apologizing to do, though.
I think that you clearly both did some things wrong, and maybe your play styles just conflict. Sometimes play styles conflict enough that people just shouldn't play together, because they won't be happy.
I think it was a bad idea to put your gripes against the person into your "eulogy." There is a general opinion that many people hold in real life, that you shouldn't speak ill of the dead as a matter of courtesy -- they can't speak up to defend themselves, so it's considered unsporting. Similarly here, the guy's character had just died, and whether he seemed OK with "just rolling up another one," it can't have been super fun for him, and then for you, with him listening, to talk smack about the now-dead character, even if it was done somewhat humorously, that's pretty bad form. Especially true if you and the other player have been experiencing some out-of-character friction. Additionally, it's never a good idea to bring out of character issues into the RP -- you have to keep OOC, and IC separate. You blended them here... that is not a good idea.
This player seems like he also has issues, based on what he said to the DM, and I am not saying he didn't do anything wrong. He shouldn't have called you names either. It seems like you both had some sour grapes you decided to air -- again, not a good idea.
My view on this is that yes, you should apologize to the group, for making a funeral speech that was unsporting. And if you find that you just can't play with this person (assuming he even comes back), then maybe you should just leave the group.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Thank you, but I think you're giving me way too much credit. Writing and voicing out your frustrations isn't hard, working it out is, and I'm actively avoiding the latter for a week now. Thank you for being modest about it, and you're right. These kind of conflicts happen and there's nothing one can do about it. But forgive me if I don't use your example.
Thank you for being brutally honest about it. I needed that. Though apologizing and asking for forgiveness aren't always the same. Asking for forgiveness is a subset of apologizing, if you know what I mean. It means that you're apologizing if you ask for forgiveness, but you're not necessarily asking for forgiveness every time you apologize, if that makes sense. But yeah, you're right, that wasn't cool, though I wasn't trash talking per se. But thank you for the honesty.
You make good points, and you've taught me the word 'eulogy'. Anyways, not much that I can say here because the other have already said it, but thanks for the input. Appreciate it.
Overall, you guys have given your inputs to apologize, and I'll apologize. It's been a while coming anyway. It'll be a load off of my conciousness. While I do disagree with some of your points, I agree with the fact that I should definitely apologize. Thank you everyone for your input and I'll try and apologize later, cause I'm a coward. I'll be posting a reply here detailing how it went, so I hope to see you all reply too. If I could, I'd send you all cookies. Wish me luck!
Good rule of thumb: it's only "good-natured ribbing" when the person you're teasing is someone you have an especially good relationship with. If your relationship is already on tenterhooks, then your attempted roast is just going to come off as overly antagonistic.
It's hard to do a remote diagnosis of interpersonal events without hearing all sides (including bystanders).
That being said, from what I read from you, you may have been better off to be more diplomatic about issues.
But what I really wanted to address (and consider this a rant) is, I take an apology to be an acknowledgement of having made a mistake. That heavily implies the ask for forgiveness, and the promise to learn from that mistake and to at least try not to repeat it.
If you apologize without the ask for forgiveness, it is just a token without meaning. If that is how you feel about it, it would be more honest to not apologize. If you don't feel like you did anything wrong, then there is no point to apologizing.
So the question if you should apologize to me is, do you feel you did something wrong and would like the group's forgiveness about you acting wrongly?
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I think you should apologize. The eulogy was uncalled for.
As far as the apologize without asking for forgiveness, I disagree. You apologize because your behavior was wrong and an apology is the right thing to do. Forgiveness is up to the other person to either give or not give. I'll not ask for it even though I am sorry for my actions. In most cases I don't care about forgiveness, I care about doing what I feel is the right thing to do.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Well, of course I do. But to me asking for forgiveness should only be when you feel like you deserve it. Obviously there's a lot of holes in that logic and you're free to disagree, but I simply don't ask for forgiveness because I don't feel like I deserve it. I'm gonna be as modest and earnest about it as possible, of course. I don't think that's a token without meaning, it just means that I don't feel like I deserve forgiveness. If he does forgive me, however, I would be very grateful, and if he gives a condition, I'll do it. That's it. Thank you for your input, though.
Well, I share the sentiment, so I'm not sure about what you mean by disagree. In any case, I'm grateful for the input. Thank you.
Well, of course I do. But to me asking for forgiveness should only be when you feel like you deserve it. Obviously there's a lot of holes in that logic and you're free to disagree, but I simply don't ask for forgiveness because I don't feel like I deserve it. I'm gonna be as modest and earnest about it as possible, of course. I don't think that's a token without meaning, it just means that I don't feel like I deserve forgiveness. If he does forgive me, however, I would be very grateful, and if he gives a condition, I'll do it. That's it. Thank you for your input, though.
Well, I share the sentiment, so I'm not sure about what you mean by disagree. In any case, I'm grateful for the input. Thank you.