Here I've listed the "Three Rest" system, as well as how it impacts Hit Dice and Spells.
Before I get into it, this isn't about predicting the 2024 update. I wholeheartedly believe that will be a 5.5 release that sets the game up for things like Spelljammer and Dark Sun. This is just how I'd do D&D if I could. It's also possible in my design here that I've listened to a few too many Old Foggies rail on about AD&D.
The Three Rest System provides three kinds of rests. A Short Rest, a Long Rest, and an Extended Rest.
Extended rests take one week of time in universe (7 days, 10 days, whatever the universe says). During this time the character cannot perform more than 4hrs of mild work per day, while living a Modest life style or greater. After completing an Extended Rest, the PC recovers all HP, Hit Dice, and Spell Slots. Edit: The player also gains the Well Rested Bonus.
Well Rested Bonus: Any character with the Well Rested bonus has their Maximum HP increased by a number equal to their level until the start of their next long rest. They also gain 1 Lucky Die (up to a maximum of 1).
Long Rests take at least 8hrs, and cannot be taken more than once per day. During a Long, the PC must eat, drink, and sleep at least 6hrs. They cannot perform more than 2hrs of light work per rest. PC's who complete a long rest gain all benefits of a short rest and the following: They recover a number of HP equal to their Constitution Score. They recover a number of hit dice OR spell slots of level 6 or greater equal to their proficiency bonus. Any hit dice recovered this way are recovered at the end of the rest and thus cannot be used during the rest.
Short Rests take at least 1hr to complete and can only be completed a number of times per day equal to the player's proficiency bonus. During a short rest, players must eat and drink, and can only perform light work. The player may choose to spend any number of hit dice and recover that much HP + their Constitution Modifier per die rolled. Spellcasters regain all cantrips and a number of spell slots levels 1 to 5 equal to their proficiency bonus.
Yes, cantrips are limited and spellcasters need to choose between hit dice and higher level spell slots. It's all part of the Linear Fighter vs. Quadratic Wizard debate.
While that would make 5th edition closer to the older editions, I myself do not care for it for the limited cantrips and the very slow recovery of spell slots. I believe this nerfs any caster class into the ground, and that includes those healing classes that are to keep the marshel classes going in longer fights and adventures. Myself I am quite happy with the standard rests as per the Players Handbook.
In terms of handling the martial vs caster thing, I think I'd rather see that addressed by expanding the options of martial classes in the late game rather than retooling the rest system to have week long breaks like that. Or, by designing adventuring days around an assumption of fewer encounters, since a big part of the issue seems to emerge from shorter adventuring days skewing balance in favor of long rest classes who don't have to conserve resources as much as intended.
Recovering an amount of HP equal to your constitution score I feel isn't very good either. I'd go with something like 'half your hp' or somethig. This just really does not scale well at all. At level 1, your con score is probably going to be higher than your max hp. Basically giving you a full heal every long rest. But then, when you're say level 12 and have 100 HP, getting 14 hp back or something like that suddenly isn't super impactful. I think this should be tweaked to scale better as characters level up, the way hit dice do currently as you get one more every level up and get more back per long rest as you level up.
Curious what you're doing with cantrips? If they're limited then why not just fold them into leveled spells and account for that there? The whole point of the cantrip designation is that they're outside of the spell slot system.
In terms of handling the martial vs caster thing, I think I'd rather see that addressed by expanding the options of martial classes in the late game rather than retooling the rest system to have week long breaks like that. Or, by designing adventuring days around an assumption of fewer encounters, since a big part of the issue seems to emerge from shorter adventuring days skewing balance in favor of long rest classes who don't have to conserve resources as much as intended.
Recovering an amount of HP equal to your constitution score I feel isn't very good either. I'd go with something like 'half your hp' or somethig. This just really does not scale well at all. At level 1, your con score is probably going to be higher than your max hp. Basically giving you a full heal every long rest. But then, when you're say level 12 and have 100 HP, getting 14 hp back or something like that suddenly isn't super impactful. I think this should be tweaked to scale better as characters level up, the way hit dice do currently as you get one more every level up and get more back per long rest as you level up.
Curious what you're doing with cantrips? If they're limited then why not just fold them into leveled spells and account for that there? The whole point of the cantrip designation is that they're outside of the spell slot system.
With Cantrips, players get a maximum number per short rest. You generally get a number of Cantrip Slots, and what you can use them for varries. The number of slots is equal to your proficiency bonus + spell casting modifier for that class. I haven't worded it exactly, but let's look at a character at level 1 and 2.
At level 1 they're a Cleric with +3Wis, +2Int and +2PB. This means they'd have 2PB and 3Wis slots, or 5 all together. If they took Wizard at level 2, they gain 2Int slots. Cleric cantrips can only use Wisdom or PB slots. Wizard cantrips can only use Int or PB slots.
The point of this is to actually allow the caster to over-extend and possibly need to use a weapon ever.
Mind you, I agree whole-heartedly that Martial classes need to get better benefits at late level. Just nerfing magic classes early level doesn't actually fix anything. Part of this is in response to the general feeling of Long Rests being OP.
Limiting cantrips kind of defeats the point of cantrips. Cantrips made it so you don’t have wizard toting around light crossbows. If you limit them, they’re just 0.5 level spells.
No, absolutely not. This would completely take the fun out of being a magic using class and makes cantrips pointless. And forcing casters to make a choice between healing and gaining spells? Why? Also, why do casters need to be forced to use a weapon? That’s not their job.
I don’t understand the problem you are trying to solve, if you want to make recovery harder the DMG has hard style rules, but in my game there would be very little chance for an extended rest period, my characters maybe get a few days off now and again but the style of campaign I run us that there is stuff happening all the time so it would force me to slow my pacing right down.
I am constantly perplexed by this desire to make resting take longer, slowing the game down, reducing the ability of players to go on dynamic, fast-paced adventures, and requiring weeks of downtime to pass without anything happening.
Cantrips costing spell slots? Absolutely not. The whole point of cantrips is that they can be cast at will. They notably increase damage dice at the same level Fighters get Extra Attack increases, because they are a caster's auto-attack.
The whole point of the resource-recover-rest system is to give players a set amount of resources to use to overcome all the obstacles you present to them in a certain timeframe.
The problem becomes, very quickly, that if you present players a 7 day rest option they'll try to take it. But to let them take it you may very well need to put the entire storyline on pause for a whole 7 days to let them finish it. And, if instead you have things continue to move forward, or even often interrupt their rest, which is super...super easy to do for a week long vacation...
Then why are you even presenting it as a option if they can never actually do it?
Worse, because you still present long rests as an option, you could start planning encounters to only happen ever 7 days, fine, but then your party switches it up on you and only take a long rest when you thought they were going to take a week rest and now what? 6 days of shopping episodes?
The whole thing seems like it would entirely trainwreck any semblance of timing in your game.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Aside from the question of how this changes affect spellcasting (which is problematic)... we have a perfectly good real-life example of something beyond a long rest - the Weekend or Sabbath! A day or 2 to recharge before getting back to the "workweek" of adventuring. Why a full 7 days?
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Here I've listed the "Three Rest" system, as well as how it impacts Hit Dice and Spells.
Before I get into it, this isn't about predicting the 2024 update. I wholeheartedly believe that will be a 5.5 release that sets the game up for things like Spelljammer and Dark Sun. This is just how I'd do D&D if I could. It's also possible in my design here that I've listened to a few too many Old Foggies rail on about AD&D.
The Three Rest System provides three kinds of rests. A Short Rest, a Long Rest, and an Extended Rest.
Extended rests take one week of time in universe (7 days, 10 days, whatever the universe says). During this time the character cannot perform more than 4hrs of mild work per day, while living a Modest life style or greater. After completing an Extended Rest, the PC recovers all HP, Hit Dice, and Spell Slots. Edit: The player also gains the Well Rested Bonus.
Well Rested Bonus: Any character with the Well Rested bonus has their Maximum HP increased by a number equal to their level until the start of their next long rest. They also gain 1 Lucky Die (up to a maximum of 1).
Long Rests take at least 8hrs, and cannot be taken more than once per day. During a Long, the PC must eat, drink, and sleep at least 6hrs. They cannot perform more than 2hrs of light work per rest. PC's who complete a long rest gain all benefits of a short rest and the following: They recover a number of HP equal to their Constitution Score. They recover a number of hit dice OR spell slots of level 6 or greater equal to their proficiency bonus. Any hit dice recovered this way are recovered at the end of the rest and thus cannot be used during the rest.
Short Rests take at least 1hr to complete and can only be completed a number of times per day equal to the player's proficiency bonus. During a short rest, players must eat and drink, and can only perform light work. The player may choose to spend any number of hit dice and recover that much HP + their Constitution Modifier per die rolled. Spellcasters regain all cantrips and a number of spell slots levels 1 to 5 equal to their proficiency bonus.
Yes, cantrips are limited and spellcasters need to choose between hit dice and higher level spell slots. It's all part of the Linear Fighter vs. Quadratic Wizard debate.
While that would make 5th edition closer to the older editions, I myself do not care for it for the limited cantrips and the very slow recovery of spell slots. I believe this nerfs any caster class into the ground, and that includes those healing classes that are to keep the marshel classes going in longer fights and adventures. Myself I am quite happy with the standard rests as per the Players Handbook.
In terms of handling the martial vs caster thing, I think I'd rather see that addressed by expanding the options of martial classes in the late game rather than retooling the rest system to have week long breaks like that. Or, by designing adventuring days around an assumption of fewer encounters, since a big part of the issue seems to emerge from shorter adventuring days skewing balance in favor of long rest classes who don't have to conserve resources as much as intended.
Recovering an amount of HP equal to your constitution score I feel isn't very good either. I'd go with something like 'half your hp' or somethig. This just really does not scale well at all. At level 1, your con score is probably going to be higher than your max hp. Basically giving you a full heal every long rest. But then, when you're say level 12 and have 100 HP, getting 14 hp back or something like that suddenly isn't super impactful. I think this should be tweaked to scale better as characters level up, the way hit dice do currently as you get one more every level up and get more back per long rest as you level up.
Curious what you're doing with cantrips? If they're limited then why not just fold them into leveled spells and account for that there? The whole point of the cantrip designation is that they're outside of the spell slot system.
With Cantrips, players get a maximum number per short rest. You generally get a number of Cantrip Slots, and what you can use them for varries. The number of slots is equal to your proficiency bonus + spell casting modifier for that class. I haven't worded it exactly, but let's look at a character at level 1 and 2.
At level 1 they're a Cleric with +3Wis, +2Int and +2PB. This means they'd have 2PB and 3Wis slots, or 5 all together. If they took Wizard at level 2, they gain 2Int slots. Cleric cantrips can only use Wisdom or PB slots. Wizard cantrips can only use Int or PB slots.
The point of this is to actually allow the caster to over-extend and possibly need to use a weapon ever.
Mind you, I agree whole-heartedly that Martial classes need to get better benefits at late level. Just nerfing magic classes early level doesn't actually fix anything. Part of this is in response to the general feeling of Long Rests being OP.
Why? The system isn’t broken, this fixes nothing and doesn’t add anything worthwhile.
Limiting cantrips kind of defeats the point of cantrips. Cantrips made it so you don’t have wizard toting around light crossbows. If you limit them, they’re just 0.5 level spells.
No, absolutely not. This would completely take the fun out of being a magic using class and makes cantrips pointless. And forcing casters to make a choice between healing and gaining spells? Why? Also, why do casters need to be forced to use a weapon? That’s not their job.
[REDACTED]
The only vaguely passable idea is casters choosing between healing or spell slots, but even then, there should be an option for a little bit of both.
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Looks like an attempt at a solution that just adds more problems.
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"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I don’t understand the problem you are trying to solve, if you want to make recovery harder the DMG has hard style rules, but in my game there would be very little chance for an extended rest period, my characters maybe get a few days off now and again but the style of campaign I run us that there is stuff happening all the time so it would force me to slow my pacing right down.
My better 3 rest system
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n21LbW9jKMDkbMQBdxI0y6pCEJy20TanIC78L_fcKm8/edit
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I am constantly perplexed by this desire to make resting take longer, slowing the game down, reducing the ability of players to go on dynamic, fast-paced adventures, and requiring weeks of downtime to pass without anything happening.
Cantrips costing spell slots? Absolutely not. The whole point of cantrips is that they can be cast at will. They notably increase damage dice at the same level Fighters get Extra Attack increases, because they are a caster's auto-attack.
The whole point of the resource-recover-rest system is to give players a set amount of resources to use to overcome all the obstacles you present to them in a certain timeframe.
The problem becomes, very quickly, that if you present players a 7 day rest option they'll try to take it. But to let them take it you may very well need to put the entire storyline on pause for a whole 7 days to let them finish it. And, if instead you have things continue to move forward, or even often interrupt their rest, which is super...super easy to do for a week long vacation...
Then why are you even presenting it as a option if they can never actually do it?
Worse, because you still present long rests as an option, you could start planning encounters to only happen ever 7 days, fine, but then your party switches it up on you and only take a long rest when you thought they were going to take a week rest and now what? 6 days of shopping episodes?
The whole thing seems like it would entirely trainwreck any semblance of timing in your game.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Aside from the question of how this changes affect spellcasting (which is problematic)... we have a perfectly good real-life example of something beyond a long rest - the Weekend or Sabbath! A day or 2 to recharge before getting back to the "workweek" of adventuring. Why a full 7 days?
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)