My weekly Lost Mines of Phandelver game for my younger brothers and their friends has been going strong for multiple months and is coming to an end very soon and it's been decided that the next game will be a Homebrewed Fantasy Western. I was pretty new to TTRPGS when we got started, but now that I've gotten the chance to try other systems and develop a taste for what I and the players want out of a game I think I'm ready to homebrew a world as well as some new mechanics and subsystems.
For what we play next, the PCs will be taking on the roles of Drifters; the bold, swaggering, and dangerous adventurers willing to take on the toughest challenges in our new setting. Something I really want to do in this game is reward and encourage daring plays and emphasize the importance of force of personality. Mechanically, after some Pathfinder 2e experience, I really want to add more scenarios with degrees of success or failure as well.
Something I'm plucking and modifying from Cyberpunk: RED in service of these goals is the Facedown system, which can be found on pg. 194 of the core book. Feel free to give your thoughts and critique.
Facedowns
The air freezes cold as death as the saloon doors swing open, only the steady billowing of cigar smoke betraying the fact that time itself hadn’t come to a stand-still. A lone Drifter stands at the entrance, the blood-red rays of the sun setting behind the Crimson Mists harshly silhouetting her burly half-orc body. She takes a few purposeful strides forward and scans the room with a single, piercing yellow eye before locking on to a dragonborn man sat at the bar. “I believe,” she begins, pulling back the hammer on her smoking six-gun, “you have something that belongs to me, Mister ‘Bad Eye’.” Overwhelmed in fear, a herd of cautious patrons brush past the Drifter and file their way into the streets. Only Bad Eye and three of his acolytes remain. He chuckles and throws back the last of his whiskey, wiping his mouth and turning to face his challenger. “I believe I damn well might.” He nonchalantly leans against the bar and puts his feet up on the recently vacated bar stool beside him. “But if ol' Bad Eye done took something I'm afraid it's no longer yours." He lifts a single gloved hand, a shadowy, black iron revolver apparating in his grasp. "And there are nine Hells to pay if your fixin' to step to me, girlie.”
What sets the Drifter apart from the run-of-the-mill, loud-mouth mook isn’t just their sharp eyes and sharper reflexes, their wherewithal to brave the frontier, or how much they can drink. Being a Drifter isn’t a skill, a profession, and certainly not a style. Being a Drifter is an attitude. Any Joe Schmoe can walk into a saloon and start throwing threats around. A Drifter has the swagger to make you believe those threats aren’t made lightly, and the best of them needn’t say a word to get the same effect.
When two strong personalities clash, the DM may call for a Facedown. During a Facedown, there is an Attacker and a Defender. The Attacker must roll a Charisma Check against a DC determined by the Defender’s Wisdom Check. The outcome is decided on the degree of success or failure on the part of the attacker.
Critical Failure. You’ve undeniably stepped up to the wrong person and you’re not willing to die for your pride today. You must back down immediately and attack rolls or ability checks made against the Defender are rolled with disadvantage for the next minute.
Failure. You’re outclassed. This time. Your next attack roll or ability check made against the Defender is rolled with disadvantage.
Success. You’ve made your point loud and clear and gained the psychological upper hand. Your next attack roll or ability check made against the Defender is rolled with advantage.
Critical Success. You’ve put the fear of God into your challenger. The Defender must back down immediately and any attack rolls or ability checks made against the Defender are rolled at advantage for one minute.
Facedowns can be initiated by or against groups. In such cases, one creature from a group will act as Attacker or Defender. Usually the creature speaking or being spoken to when the Facedown is initiated. In cases where a Facedown is initiated against the party as a whole as opposed to a single PC, the party may decide among themselves who will act as Defender. When rolling as Attacker or Defender in a group, add +1 to your roll for every additional creature accompanying you that the enemy can see.
Additional bonuses can and should be awarded at the DM’s discretion.
Couple things regarding my mindset while designing this:
I wanted to tie these checks to a flat Ability Check rather than a Skill so that characters without proficiency in Intimidation, for example, aren't discouraged from attempting to engage with this subsystem
I want to add more systems and mechanics to concretely reward the roleplay interactions that aren't just a simple Pass/Fail opposed Skill roll
I want to reward creativity with the additional bonuses; they should probably get a boost to their modifier if they make their voice boom with Thaumaturgy or just shot a guy in front of the opposition, for example
I feel like the critical successes and failures last for too long, and the -4 seems arbitrary. Maybe test out giving advantage or disadvantage until the next long rest, as that mechanically is more in line with the design of 5e.
I think I was trying to skirt rolls just imposing advantage or disadvantage, but I think handing it out for more or less time based on whether the failure or success is critical or not is enough. How's this?
Critical Failure. You’ve undeniably stepped up to the wrong person and you’re not willing to die for your pride today. You must back down immediately and attack rolls or ability checks made against the Defender are rolled with disadvantage until your next long rest..
Failure. You’re outclassed. This time. Any attack rolls or ability checks made against the Defender are rolled with disadvantage for one minute.
Success. You’ve made your point loud and clear and gained the psychological upper hand. Any attack rolls or ability checks made against the Defender are rolled at advantage for one minute.
Critical Success. You’ve put the fear of God into your challenger. The Defender must back down immediately and any attack rolls or ability checks made against the Defender are rolled at advantage until your next long rest.
Yeah I think that makes sense. Might need some dials tweaked as you test it with your players. For example, you may find that advantage or disadvantage on all attack rolls for the next minute might be a bit too powerful or punishing, especially if you immediately enter combat right after, but that's something that will only reveal itself with playtesting. Just try it out and preface it with "we might change this to be only the next attack roll or ability check made in the next minute has advantage or disadvantage" or however you want to tweak it from there.
I feel like Charisma check V. Charisma check would be more appropriate for this, especially since there doesn't really seem to be much difference between attacker and defender with the mirrored bonuses/penalties and all. It could make an awkward situation where you're trying to get the other guy to initiate a facedown with you instead of just initiating it yourself, since you have a higher Wisdom than Charisma or you think they have a lower Charisma than Wisdom.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I saw it described that the six stats mirror each other for the character's body and mind Strength = Charisma
Dexterity = Intelligence
Constitution = Wisdom
I figured Charisma would be the aggressive stat, applying the force of your personality to shake the will of your opponent. Wise characters will be more calm and collected, able to withstand the force of others' personalities. In my experience, Wisdom classes like Clerics, Druids, and Rangers tend to have a stoic streak anyhow.
As far as trying to force a Facedown, I as the DM have control over when they happen since I declare when one is initiated. So in practice, players wouldn't necessarily be able to just Facedown every Tom, Dick, and Harry they come across. It's more for adding some flavor to the events leading up to a big, cinematic encounter like a 10-step duel or even when facing down a particularly problematic beast. Seems like the party wants to go pretty hammy with the tropes in this campaign, so I'd like to add fun things like this to really sell the fantasy of being a Gunslinger.
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My weekly Lost Mines of Phandelver game for my younger brothers and their friends has been going strong for multiple months and is coming to an end very soon and it's been decided that the next game will be a Homebrewed Fantasy Western. I was pretty new to TTRPGS when we got started, but now that I've gotten the chance to try other systems and develop a taste for what I and the players want out of a game I think I'm ready to homebrew a world as well as some new mechanics and subsystems.
For what we play next, the PCs will be taking on the roles of Drifters; the bold, swaggering, and dangerous adventurers willing to take on the toughest challenges in our new setting. Something I really want to do in this game is reward and encourage daring plays and emphasize the importance of force of personality. Mechanically, after some Pathfinder 2e experience, I really want to add more scenarios with degrees of success or failure as well.
Something I'm plucking and modifying from Cyberpunk: RED in service of these goals is the Facedown system, which can be found on pg. 194 of the core book. Feel free to give your thoughts and critique.
Facedowns
What sets the Drifter apart from the run-of-the-mill, loud-mouth mook isn’t just their sharp eyes and sharper reflexes, their wherewithal to brave the frontier, or how much they can drink. Being a Drifter isn’t a skill, a profession, and certainly not a style. Being a Drifter is an attitude. Any Joe Schmoe can walk into a saloon and start throwing threats around. A Drifter has the swagger to make you believe those threats aren’t made lightly, and the best of them needn’t say a word to get the same effect.
When two strong personalities clash, the DM may call for a Facedown. During a Facedown, there is an Attacker and a Defender. The Attacker must roll a Charisma Check against a DC determined by the Defender’s Wisdom Check. The outcome is decided on the degree of success or failure on the part of the attacker.
Critical Failure. You’ve undeniably stepped up to the wrong person and you’re not willing to die for your pride today. You must back down immediately and attack rolls or ability checks made against the Defender are rolled with disadvantage for the next minute.
Failure. You’re outclassed. This time. Your next attack roll or ability check made against the Defender is rolled with disadvantage.
Success. You’ve made your point loud and clear and gained the psychological upper hand. Your next attack roll or ability check made against the Defender is rolled with advantage.
Critical Success. You’ve put the fear of God into your challenger. The Defender must back down immediately and any attack rolls or ability checks made against the Defender are rolled at advantage for one minute.
Facedowns can be initiated by or against groups. In such cases, one creature from a group will act as Attacker or Defender. Usually the creature speaking or being spoken to when the Facedown is initiated. In cases where a Facedown is initiated against the party as a whole as opposed to a single PC, the party may decide among themselves who will act as Defender. When rolling as Attacker or Defender in a group, add +1 to your roll for every additional creature accompanying you that the enemy can see.
Additional bonuses can and should be awarded at the DM’s discretion.
Couple things regarding my mindset while designing this:
I wanted to tie these checks to a flat Ability Check rather than a Skill so that characters without proficiency in Intimidation, for example, aren't discouraged from attempting to engage with this subsystem
I want to add more systems and mechanics to concretely reward the roleplay interactions that aren't just a simple Pass/Fail opposed Skill roll
I want to reward creativity with the additional bonuses; they should probably get a boost to their modifier if they make their voice boom with Thaumaturgy or just shot a guy in front of the opposition, for example
I feel like the critical successes and failures last for too long, and the -4 seems arbitrary. Maybe test out giving advantage or disadvantage until the next long rest, as that mechanically is more in line with the design of 5e.
It definitely is more in line with 5e design :Ic
I think I was trying to skirt rolls just imposing advantage or disadvantage, but I think handing it out for more or less time based on whether the failure or success is critical or not is enough. How's this?
Yeah I think that makes sense. Might need some dials tweaked as you test it with your players. For example, you may find that advantage or disadvantage on all attack rolls for the next minute might be a bit too powerful or punishing, especially if you immediately enter combat right after, but that's something that will only reveal itself with playtesting. Just try it out and preface it with "we might change this to be only the next attack roll or ability check made in the next minute has advantage or disadvantage" or however you want to tweak it from there.
I may do just that; tweak it so that Crits last a minute and normal rolls last for the next attack or ability check.
I feel like Charisma check V. Charisma check would be more appropriate for this, especially since there doesn't really seem to be much difference between attacker and defender with the mirrored bonuses/penalties and all. It could make an awkward situation where you're trying to get the other guy to initiate a facedown with you instead of just initiating it yourself, since you have a higher Wisdom than Charisma or you think they have a lower Charisma than Wisdom.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I saw it described that the six stats mirror each other for the character's body and mind
Strength = Charisma
Dexterity = Intelligence
Constitution = Wisdom
I figured Charisma would be the aggressive stat, applying the force of your personality to shake the will of your opponent. Wise characters will be more calm and collected, able to withstand the force of others' personalities. In my experience, Wisdom classes like Clerics, Druids, and Rangers tend to have a stoic streak anyhow.
As far as trying to force a Facedown, I as the DM have control over when they happen since I declare when one is initiated. So in practice, players wouldn't necessarily be able to just Facedown every Tom, Dick, and Harry they come across. It's more for adding some flavor to the events leading up to a big, cinematic encounter like a 10-step duel or even when facing down a particularly problematic beast. Seems like the party wants to go pretty hammy with the tropes in this campaign, so I'd like to add fun things like this to really sell the fantasy of being a Gunslinger.