One of the most confusing rules in the game is the bonus action spellcasting rule. There are a large number of threads where understanding this is the primary issue, and so my question is, what would happen to the game if it weren't a rule? and how would you rebalance the game to address that? or would it be better to simplify the rule in some way?
Personally, I don't think most Bonus Action spells interact with action spells in a way that is severely unbalanced. A significant number of BA spells are intended to augment the Attack action (smite spells, weapon conjuring spells, ability augmenting spells, etc) and others have no damage dealing purpose ("step" spells) and while they can be used in combat, I would think the faster depletion of spell slots would balance it. You could balance out the removal of the rule by removing power scaling from those spells (ie, increased power with increased spell slots), or by changing some of the more powerful spells to action spells
Alternately, a simplified version of the rule would be that you can use your Bonus Action or Action to cast a spell on your turn, but not both, and then give certain full-caster classes (mainly wizard and sorcerer, but potentially other full-casters too) a non-spell melee spell attack that would mimic cantrip scaling, (using d8's), have damage type selectable at level 1, and use their spellcasting ability for the attack roll.
I think the simplest way is to have a general rule:You can only can’t one spell on your turn. Then you can add in exceptions. In the text of a given spell write: You may cast this spell as a bonus action even if you have already cast another spell this turn.
Quicken Spell is really the only sticking point for this rule. Casting a bonus action spell and an action spell in the same turn doesn't break anything, but turning an action spell into a bonus action and then casting it twice can muck things up a bit.
Quicken Spell is really the only sticking point for this rule. Casting a bonus action spell and an action spell in the same turn doesn't break anything, but turning an action spell into a bonus action and then casting it twice can muck things up a bit.
This. Quicken your biggest spell and then throw another one of your biggest spells. Like two massive Area Spells in one turn.
I think the rule is quite accurate if simplified like this:
You can only cast one levelled spell on your own turn unless you get a full Extra Action without spell limitations (Action Surge)
So you can cast a spell and a Cantrip on the same turn.
And since reactions take place on someone else's turn, it's ok to cast a levelled reaction spell. (Counterspell and War Caster feat)
Quicken Spell is really the only sticking point for this rule. Casting a bonus action spell and an action spell in the same turn doesn't break anything, but turning an action spell into a bonus action and then casting it twice can muck things up a bit.
What makes you think you can cast the same non-cantrip spell twice on the same turn? If you convert the casting time to 1 Bonus Action with Quickened Spell, then rules about only being able to cast a cantrip on the same turn applies.
The problem with removing Bonus Action spell casting is that it makes healing a lot less fun - either you heal someone OR you do something more interesting, rather than currently where you can throw a heal as a bonus action and do something more interesting on the same turn.
Oh, if the comment about casting both as bonus action and normal action was questioning the homebrew rules above, then I apologise.
Perhaps this question is better asked in the homebrew section.
Quicken Spell is really the only sticking point for this rule. Casting a bonus action spell and an action spell in the same turn doesn't break anything, but turning an action spell into a bonus action and then casting it twice can muck things up a bit.
What makes you think you can cast the same non-cantrip spell twice on the same turn? If you convert the casting time to 1 Bonus Action with Quickened Spell, then rules about only being able to cast a cantrip on the same turn applies.
The problem with removing Bonus Action spell casting is that it makes healing a lot less fun - either you heal someone OR you do something more interesting, rather than currently where you can throw a heal as a bonus action and do something more interesting on the same turn.
Oh, if the comment about casting both as bonus action and normal action was questioning the homebrew rules above, then I apologise.
Perhaps this question is better asked in the homebrew section.
I am saying that if it were not for Quicken Spell, the rule would be completely unnecessary
Quicken Spell is really the only sticking point for this rule. Casting a bonus action spell and an action spell in the same turn doesn't break anything, but turning an action spell into a bonus action and then casting it twice can muck things up a bit.
What makes you think you can cast the same non-cantrip spell twice on the same turn? If you convert the casting time to 1 Bonus Action with Quickened Spell, then rules about only being able to cast a cantrip on the same turn applies.
The problem with removing Bonus Action spell casting is that it makes healing a lot less fun - either you heal someone OR you do something more interesting, rather than currently where you can throw a heal as a bonus action and do something more interesting on the same turn.
Oh, if the comment about casting both as bonus action and normal action was questioning the homebrew rules above, then I apologise.
Perhaps this question is better asked in the homebrew section.
I am saying that if it were not for Quicken Spell, the rule would be completely unnecessary
the sorcerer is fairly underpowered...I don't see why giving them a nice boost would be a problem, and you still have the resource management of using two leveled slots per turn if allowed.
Quicken Spell is really the only sticking point for this rule. Casting a bonus action spell and an action spell in the same turn doesn't break anything, but turning an action spell into a bonus action and then casting it twice can muck things up a bit.
What makes you think you can cast the same non-cantrip spell twice on the same turn? If you convert the casting time to 1 Bonus Action with Quickened Spell, then rules about only being able to cast a cantrip on the same turn applies.
The problem with removing Bonus Action spell casting is that it makes healing a lot less fun - either you heal someone OR you do something more interesting, rather than currently where you can throw a heal as a bonus action and do something more interesting on the same turn.
Oh, if the comment about casting both as bonus action and normal action was questioning the homebrew rules above, then I apologise.
Perhaps this question is better asked in the homebrew section.
I am saying that if it were not for Quicken Spell, the rule would be completely unnecessary
the sorcerer is fairly underpowered...I don't see why giving them a nice boost would be a problem, and you still have the resource management of using two leveled slots per turn if allowed.
At early levels resources are scarce, but later on action economy plays a bigger role. So being able to throw for example two lvl 4 spells like Blight in one turn against a single foe can mess up the balance pretty quickly, not to mention combining for example lvl 8 and 7 spells for the cost of 2 sorcery points.
Having a paralyzed or stunned enemy and then throwing 2 x Disintegrate in one turn when they automatically fail the save. (That's 23d6 + 80dmg) for lvl 6 and 7 slots. Normally you'd be able do it once before they get a chance to end the condition. Or for a less dramatic combo, casting Hold Person first and Disintegrate immediately after you succeed.
And at low levels the damage of such combos quickly gets pretty heavy. For example 2 x fireball in one turn.
I think it's safer left as it is. I'd say explaining the rule is less trouble. 😄
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Finland GMT/UTC +2
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One of the most confusing rules in the game is the bonus action spellcasting rule. There are a large number of threads where understanding this is the primary issue, and so my question is, what would happen to the game if it weren't a rule? and how would you rebalance the game to address that? or would it be better to simplify the rule in some way?
Personally, I don't think most Bonus Action spells interact with action spells in a way that is severely unbalanced. A significant number of BA spells are intended to augment the Attack action (smite spells, weapon conjuring spells, ability augmenting spells, etc) and others have no damage dealing purpose ("step" spells) and while they can be used in combat, I would think the faster depletion of spell slots would balance it. You could balance out the removal of the rule by removing power scaling from those spells (ie, increased power with increased spell slots), or by changing some of the more powerful spells to action spells
Alternately, a simplified version of the rule would be that you can use your Bonus Action or Action to cast a spell on your turn, but not both, and then give certain full-caster classes (mainly wizard and sorcerer, but potentially other full-casters too) a non-spell melee spell attack that would mimic cantrip scaling, (using d8's), have damage type selectable at level 1, and use their spellcasting ability for the attack roll.
Thoughts?
I think the simplest way is to have a general rule:You can only can’t one spell on your turn.
Then you can add in exceptions. In the text of a given spell write: You may cast this spell as a bonus action even if you have already cast another spell this turn.
Then some other wording for quicken spell.
Quicken Spell is really the only sticking point for this rule. Casting a bonus action spell and an action spell in the same turn doesn't break anything, but turning an action spell into a bonus action and then casting it twice can muck things up a bit.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
This. Quicken your biggest spell and then throw another one of your biggest spells. Like two massive Area Spells in one turn.
I think the rule is quite accurate if simplified like this:
You can only cast one levelled spell on your own turn unless you get a full Extra Action without spell limitations (Action Surge)
So you can cast a spell and a Cantrip on the same turn.
And since reactions take place on someone else's turn, it's ok to cast a levelled reaction spell. (Counterspell and War Caster feat)
Finland GMT/UTC +2
What makes you think you can cast the same non-cantrip spell twice on the same turn? If you convert the casting time to 1 Bonus Action with Quickened Spell, then rules about only being able to cast a cantrip on the same turn applies.
The problem with removing Bonus Action spell casting is that it makes healing a lot less fun - either you heal someone OR you do something more interesting, rather than currently where you can throw a heal as a bonus action and do something more interesting on the same turn.
Oh, if the comment about casting both as bonus action and normal action was questioning the homebrew rules above, then I apologise.
Perhaps this question is better asked in the homebrew section.
I am saying that if it were not for Quicken Spell, the rule would be completely unnecessary
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
the sorcerer is fairly underpowered...I don't see why giving them a nice boost would be a problem, and you still have the resource management of using two leveled slots per turn if allowed.
At early levels resources are scarce, but later on action economy plays a bigger role. So being able to throw for example two lvl 4 spells like Blight in one turn against a single foe can mess up the balance pretty quickly, not to mention combining for example lvl 8 and 7 spells for the cost of 2 sorcery points.
Having a paralyzed or stunned enemy and then throwing 2 x Disintegrate in one turn when they automatically fail the save. (That's 23d6 + 80dmg) for lvl 6 and 7 slots. Normally you'd be able do it once before they get a chance to end the condition. Or for a less dramatic combo, casting Hold Person first and Disintegrate immediately after you succeed.
And at low levels the damage of such combos quickly gets pretty heavy. For example 2 x fireball in one turn.
I think it's safer left as it is. I'd say explaining the rule is less trouble. 😄
Finland GMT/UTC +2