I'm making a wood elf leader (NPC), who's pretty darn old. Because of that I want him to be massively powerful - a very experienced druid and cleric. Both classes between levels 15-20. However, D&DBeyond only allows a total level of 20. Is there a way to customize that or are there plans to allow the option in the future?
If so, just follow the rules to up their levels beyond a sum of levels between the two classes to be as high as you'd like, ignoring the "the sum of your classes cannot exceed 20"
If it's a single class, just try and figure out the class's spell or special feature progression (there's usually a spell slot chart for each casting class. Just add spell slots following the pattern, for rogues, just half whatever your final level is in rogue, and divide by 2 and that's your sneak attack dice, for monks, figure out the progression of ki points and continue that pattern, etc.)
If it's SIGNIFICANTLY higher in level beyond 20 (like level 25) you may want to give them some new "legendary actions" like your typical big monsters might have, where you have a special ability they can do once a day that fits the class.
If you want to go higher than that, you can follow a spell like progression and give extra uses of that ability or add new ones.
I would say 35 levels in total can be absolutely absurd, and 25 is probably where I would max out, but there ya go. :)
Thank you, that's what I thought. It'd be cool to have the options in the sheet though, without having to override the stat modifiers to be able to pick more spells, or use homebrew feats to add spell slots etc. Some options to add or override max level, or amount of spell slots like you can with some things would be good to have.
If the character in question is to act as a mentor, guide or just the stereotypical old meddler, they don't really need to have a statblock and most of what you want from them can - and probably should - just be handwaved. Unless there's a reason for the character to have a fully accounted statblock, spell-listing and the like, just... have fun. All you probably need is a rough idea of what their core skills and proficiency bonus are.
What's the goal behind the character, though?
What do you want to accomplish with them that couldn't be done with a normal character build?
What do you intend to do to prevent this character from overshadowing the player characters and why, if this individual is so powerful, capable and experienced, are they not dealing with whatever the threat in your campaign is themselves?
Does it matter how many 9th level spells slots Archdruid VonClericson the character has if he's mostly there for plot exposition?
Beyond that, if you ever need to kill or incapacitate the character for story purposes, it's somewhat awkward if they're mechanically capable of holding their own against the biggest threats in the expanded monster manuals.
As folks noted, NPCs aren't subject to the same restrictions as PCs.
So yes, you can do that.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
What do you intend to do to prevent this character from overshadowing the player characters and why, if this individual is so powerful, capable and experienced, are they not dealing with whatever the threat in your campaign is themselves?
They're not going to overshadow PCs, he can be somewhat of a mentor, and a possible friend to the group. He's not a fighter (don't mean the class) and not build to fight. He's a leader of a clan that would not be affected by the threat. His purpose is to keep the clan save (there's a lot of backstory and history of the clan and world at large that play a role in him not 'joining the fight'). The party might not even meet him and the situations they would encounter him in are not him asking for help, but rather the party running into him when they're on their way to solve a different problem.
I'm not even sure, if I'm going to end up with the build like that. Even if it's Druid 20 / Cleric 2.
My point was solely, if it is now possible or will be in the future, to customize and adjust the maximum possible level and some other things like spell slots available per spell level. But thank you for your answer!
As folks noted, NPCs aren't subject to the same restrictions as PCs.
So yes, you can do that.
Thank you. I know I can do that on a piece of paper. I just like everything organized in one place. I'd love to use the character sheets for NPCs as well, because of simplicity, efficiency and because I just like them🤷♀️ It's faster to have DDB limit a drop down to the options I have than look everything up and have to write it all out manually.
So, my understanding of your question is not whether D&D5e allows you to do that (who cares anyway, if you want to, just do it!), but whether DDB will let you do it on the system.
I don't believe it does. It should, in my opinion, but it coded on the premise that you're making PCs according to the rules of the game, which limits what you can do.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
If it's an NPC just hit the create monster button and do what you want.
If you want to do it in the character builder then it doesn't support levels beyond 20 because let's face it, many of us have never reached level 20 and even fewer would wish to go beyond level 20.
If you want to do it in the character builder then it doesn't support levels beyond 20 because let's face it, many of us have never reached level 20 and even fewer would wish to go beyond level 20.
(Actually, it's because the rules don't support it and DDB only supports the rules, but....)
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Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
If you want to do it in the character builder then it doesn't support levels beyond 20 because let's face it, many of us have never reached level 20 and even fewer would wish to go beyond level 20.
(Actually, it's because the rules don't support it and DDB only supports the rules, but....)
My dmg is physical only so I can't check, but all other editions have supported play beyond. In AD&D, there was specific guidance about going beyond what the tables given showed, and much of my advice was based on that (again, the current dmg reads like dog poop and it's not in front of me).
There MAY be optional rules for creating characters beyond 20th level in one of the source books specifically as NPC' and if there is, there's a 90% chance it says to just keep with the same patterns for levels.
As for whether or not someone wants to stat this npc out or not is up to them. Sometimes it helps just to do because sometimes rogues want to rob your npc that you didn't stat. What's their passive to roll against? Or sometimes you just want to have an idea of what spells they might have to help your PC's out with... I don't recommend it often either, but if an NPC is remarkable enough or someone they are likely to interact with enough, it helps with the roll play to get a grasp.on the character your playing (because the DM plays ALL roles outside of PCs)
If you want to do it in the character builder then it doesn't support levels beyond 20 because let's face it, many of us have never reached level 20 and even fewer would wish to go beyond level 20.
(Actually, it's because the rules don't support it and DDB only supports the rules, but....)
My dmg is physical only so I can't check, but all other editions have supported play beyond. In AD&D, there was specific guidance about going beyond what the tables given showed, and much of my advice was based on that (again, the current dmg reads like dog poop and it's not in front of me).
There MAY be optional rules for creating characters beyond 20th level in one of the source books specifically as NPC' and if there is, there's a 90% chance it says to just keep with the same patterns for levels.
As for whether or not someone wants to stat this npc out or not is up to them. Sometimes it helps just to do because sometimes rogues want to rob your npc that you didn't stat. What's their passive to roll against? Or sometimes you just want to have an idea of what spells they might have to help your PC's out with... I don't recommend it often either, but if an NPC is remarkable enough or someone they are likely to interact with enough, it helps with the roll play to get a grasp.on the character your playing (because the DM plays ALL roles outside of PCs)
nope. 5e goes to 20. Nothing after that.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
If you want to do it in the character builder then it doesn't support levels beyond 20 because let's face it, many of us have never reached level 20 and even fewer would wish to go beyond level 20.
(Actually, it's because the rules don't support it and DDB only supports the rules, but....)
My dmg is physical only so I can't check, but all other editions have supported play beyond. In AD&D, there was specific guidance about going beyond what the tables given showed, and much of my advice was based on that (again, the current dmg reads like dog poop and it's not in front of me).
There MAY be optional rules for creating characters beyond 20th level in one of the source books specifically as NPC' and if there is, there's a 90% chance it says to just keep with the same patterns for levels.
As for whether or not someone wants to stat this npc out or not is up to them. Sometimes it helps just to do because sometimes rogues want to rob your npc that you didn't stat. What's their passive to roll against? Or sometimes you just want to have an idea of what spells they might have to help your PC's out with... I don't recommend it often either, but if an NPC is remarkable enough or someone they are likely to interact with enough, it helps with the roll play to get a grasp.on the character your playing (because the DM plays ALL roles outside of PCs)
nope. 5e goes to 20. Nothing after that.
I did say that I wasn't certain and I was pulling from recollection of other books...
If you want to do it in the character builder then it doesn't support levels beyond 20 because let's face it, many of us have never reached level 20 and even fewer would wish to go beyond level 20.
(Actually, it's because the rules don't support it and DDB only supports the rules, but....)
My dmg is physical only so I can't check, but all other editions have supported play beyond. In AD&D, there was specific guidance about going beyond what the tables given showed, and much of my advice was based on that (again, the current dmg reads like dog poop and it's not in front of me).
There MAY be optional rules for creating characters beyond 20th level in one of the source books specifically as NPC' and if there is, there's a 90% chance it says to just keep with the same patterns for levels.
As for whether or not someone wants to stat this npc out or not is up to them. Sometimes it helps just to do because sometimes rogues want to rob your npc that you didn't stat. What's their passive to roll against? Or sometimes you just want to have an idea of what spells they might have to help your PC's out with... I don't recommend it often either, but if an NPC is remarkable enough or someone they are likely to interact with enough, it helps with the roll play to get a grasp.on the character your playing (because the DM plays ALL roles outside of PCs)
It's not called level 21, 22 etc. but the DMG says this:
"Reaching this point doesn’t necessarily dictate the end of the campaign. These powerful characters might be called on to undertake grand adventures on the cosmic stage. And as a result of these adventures, their capabilities can continue to evolve. Characters gain no more levels at this point, but they can still advance in meaningful ways and continue performing epic deeds that resound throughout the multiverse. Chapter 7 details epic boons you can use as rewards for these characters to maintain a sense of progress."
Another thing the DMG says: "Disregard any advice here that runs counter to your vision..." alright, it does continue with "...for a settlement." But I mean... it's D&D.
So, my understanding of your question is not whether D&D5e allows you to do that (who cares anyway, if you want to, just do it!), but whether DDB will let you do it on the system.
I don't believe it does. It should, in my opinion, but it coded on the premise that you're making PCs according to the rules of the game, which limits what you can do.
Exactly. Sorry, I should've written it better. Yeah, I agree.
If you want to do it in the character builder then it doesn't support levels beyond 20 because let's face it, many of us have never reached level 20 and even fewer would wish to go beyond level 20.
(Actually, it's because the rules don't support it and DDB only supports the rules, but....)
It does have options to overwrite other rules, so that's not really an argument for the lack of it.
And sure, as a player and a group it's rare to reach. But imagine a 4 player party starting an adventure at level 15, going up to 20. The BBEG fight could be a monster, sure. But what if you want another character. Just a single super powerful elf or goblin or human? Granted, not my current plan. Or at least it wasn't until I just wrote it out..
Having expressed my frustration on this topic previously in other threads, I;ll skip my rant, and just state my solution that may work for some.
A free account is allowed up to 6 characters. Therefore, I suggest creating two seperate character sheets for the one PC/NPC intended to go beyond level 20. There are three potential problems with this, the first being the limit of 6 available sheets. The second, is that the numbers are not automatically combined for you, so it takes a little toggling back and forth to know you stats. Third, using this method gives a little boost to the character as they benefit from dual 1st level packages.
Now I will abbreviate the problems with my solutions or rational as to why it is reasonable to work with.
1. Limit of 6: Major limitation, the workaround here is to create the characters quickly in DDB and then transfer them to a spreadsheet or other preferred format to free up the character space again.
2. Toggling: Minor limitation, I'd probably just toggle back and forth, adjust the size of two windows open, or utilize dual monitors.
3. Dual 1st level packages: Moderate limitation, this is really a DM's call here, but I personally prefer a system like 3.5 where skills continue to improve with levels beyond just attribute increases and selected feats. In 3.5 you gained ranks to add to your skills, which represented learning/practice, etc... Also, languages would increase in 3.5 as a PC's intelligence modifier increased. In my opinion, this extra boost with an additional 1st level can be explained as learned skills, languages, etc... It seems to me that 5e took this aspect out to try to simplify the game a bit and then introduced tools as a way to kind of make up for it, but just because you have the right tools, and the right attributes doesn't necessarily mean that you possess the right expertise.
Having expressed my frustration on this topic previously in other threads, I;ll skip my rant, and just state my solution that may work for some.
A free account is allowed up to 6 characters. Therefore, I suggest creating two seperate character sheets for the one PC/NPC intended to go beyond level 20. There are three potential problems with this, the first being the limit of 6 available sheets. The second, is that the numbers are not automatically combined for you, so it takes a little toggling back and forth to know you stats. Third, using this method gives a little boost to the character as they benefit from dual 1st level packages.
Now I will abbreviate the problems with my solutions or rational as to why it is reasonable to work with.
1. Limit of 6: Major limitation, the workaround here is to create the characters quickly in DDB and then transfer them to a spreadsheet or other preferred format to free up the character space again.
2. Toggling: Minor limitation, I'd probably just toggle back and forth, adjust the size of two windows open, or utilize dual monitors.
3. Dual 1st level packages: Moderate limitation, this is really a DM's call here, but I personally prefer a system like 3.5 where skills continue to improve with levels beyond just attribute increases and selected feats. In 3.5 you gained ranks to add to your skills, which represented learning/practice, etc... Also, languages would increase in 3.5 as a PC's intelligence modifier increased. In my opinion, this extra boost with an additional 1st level can be explained as learned skills, languages, etc... It seems to me that 5e took this aspect out to try to simplify the game a bit and then introduced tools as a way to kind of make up for it, but just because you have the right tools, and the right attributes doesn't necessarily mean that you possess the right expertise.
Thanks, yeah workarounds abound. I have a subscription, so no 6 character limit. You can just download the character sheets to .pdf. No need to manually transfer them.
Using this method one should be able to adjust all the extra stuff so both match. You can overwrite things like tools, languages, proficiency and expertise. As far as I know it's only spell slots/preparations and character levels that you can't.
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Hello everyone,
I'm making a wood elf leader (NPC), who's pretty darn old. Because of that I want him to be massively powerful - a very experienced druid and cleric. Both classes between levels 15-20. However, D&DBeyond only allows a total level of 20. Is there a way to customize that or are there plans to allow the option in the future?
Thanks for reading!
Aria
Sure. Is it a druid cleric split?
If so, just follow the rules to up their levels beyond a sum of levels between the two classes to be as high as you'd like, ignoring the "the sum of your classes cannot exceed 20"
If it's a single class, just try and figure out the class's spell or special feature progression (there's usually a spell slot chart for each casting class. Just add spell slots following the pattern, for rogues, just half whatever your final level is in rogue, and divide by 2 and that's your sneak attack dice, for monks, figure out the progression of ki points and continue that pattern, etc.)
If it's SIGNIFICANTLY higher in level beyond 20 (like level 25) you may want to give them some new "legendary actions" like your typical big monsters might have, where you have a special ability they can do once a day that fits the class.
If you want to go higher than that, you can follow a spell like progression and give extra uses of that ability or add new ones.
I would say 35 levels in total can be absolutely absurd, and 25 is probably where I would max out, but there ya go. :)
Thank you, that's what I thought. It'd be cool to have the options in the sheet though, without having to override the stat modifiers to be able to pick more spells, or use homebrew feats to add spell slots etc. Some options to add or override max level, or amount of spell slots like you can with some things would be good to have.
If the character in question is to act as a mentor, guide or just the stereotypical old meddler, they don't really need to have a statblock and most of what you want from them can - and probably should - just be handwaved. Unless there's a reason for the character to have a fully accounted statblock, spell-listing and the like, just... have fun. All you probably need is a rough idea of what their core skills and proficiency bonus are.
What's the goal behind the character, though?
What do you want to accomplish with them that couldn't be done with a normal character build?
What do you intend to do to prevent this character from overshadowing the player characters and why, if this individual is so powerful, capable and experienced, are they not dealing with whatever the threat in your campaign is themselves?
Does it matter how many 9th level spells slots Archdruid VonClericson the character has if he's mostly there for plot exposition?
Beyond that, if you ever need to kill or incapacitate the character for story purposes, it's somewhat awkward if they're mechanically capable of holding their own against the biggest threats in the expanded monster manuals.
As folks noted, NPCs aren't subject to the same restrictions as PCs.
So yes, you can do that.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
They're not going to overshadow PCs, he can be somewhat of a mentor, and a possible friend to the group. He's not a fighter (don't mean the class) and not build to fight. He's a leader of a clan that would not be affected by the threat. His purpose is to keep the clan save (there's a lot of backstory and history of the clan and world at large that play a role in him not 'joining the fight'). The party might not even meet him and the situations they would encounter him in are not him asking for help, but rather the party running into him when they're on their way to solve a different problem.
I'm not even sure, if I'm going to end up with the build like that. Even if it's Druid 20 / Cleric 2.
My point was solely, if it is now possible or will be in the future, to customize and adjust the maximum possible level and some other things like spell slots available per spell level. But thank you for your answer!
So, my understanding of your question is not whether D&D5e allows you to do that (who cares anyway, if you want to, just do it!), but whether DDB will let you do it on the system.
I don't believe it does. It should, in my opinion, but it coded on the premise that you're making PCs according to the rules of the game, which limits what you can do.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
If it's an NPC just hit the create monster button and do what you want.
If you want to do it in the character builder then it doesn't support levels beyond 20 because let's face it, many of us have never reached level 20 and even fewer would wish to go beyond level 20.
(Actually, it's because the rules don't support it and DDB only supports the rules, but....)
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
My dmg is physical only so I can't check, but all other editions have supported play beyond. In AD&D, there was specific guidance about going beyond what the tables given showed, and much of my advice was based on that (again, the current dmg reads like dog poop and it's not in front of me).
There MAY be optional rules for creating characters beyond 20th level in one of the source books specifically as NPC' and if there is, there's a 90% chance it says to just keep with the same patterns for levels.
As for whether or not someone wants to stat this npc out or not is up to them. Sometimes it helps just to do because sometimes rogues want to rob your npc that you didn't stat. What's their passive to roll against? Or sometimes you just want to have an idea of what spells they might have to help your PC's out with... I don't recommend it often either, but if an NPC is remarkable enough or someone they are likely to interact with enough, it helps with the roll play to get a grasp.on the character your playing (because the DM plays ALL roles outside of PCs)
nope. 5e goes to 20. Nothing after that.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I did say that I wasn't certain and I was pulling from recollection of other books...
But thank you for the confirmation.
It's not called level 21, 22 etc. but the DMG says this:
"Reaching this point doesn’t necessarily dictate the end of the campaign. These powerful characters might be called on to undertake grand adventures on the cosmic stage. And as a result of these adventures, their capabilities can continue to evolve. Characters gain no more levels at this point, but they can still advance in meaningful ways and continue performing epic deeds that resound throughout the multiverse. Chapter 7 details epic boons you can use as rewards for these characters to maintain a sense of progress."
Another thing the DMG says: "Disregard any advice here that runs counter to your vision..." alright, it does continue with "...for a settlement." But I mean... it's D&D.
Exactly. Sorry, I should've written it better. Yeah, I agree.
It does have options to overwrite other rules, so that's not really an argument for the lack of it.
And sure, as a player and a group it's rare to reach. But imagine a 4 player party starting an adventure at level 15, going up to 20. The BBEG fight could be a monster, sure. But what if you want another character. Just a single super powerful elf or goblin or human? Granted, not my current plan. Or at least it wasn't until I just wrote it out..
Having expressed my frustration on this topic previously in other threads, I;ll skip my rant, and just state my solution that may work for some.
A free account is allowed up to 6 characters. Therefore, I suggest creating two seperate character sheets for the one PC/NPC intended to go beyond level 20. There are three potential problems with this, the first being the limit of 6 available sheets. The second, is that the numbers are not automatically combined for you, so it takes a little toggling back and forth to know you stats. Third, using this method gives a little boost to the character as they benefit from dual 1st level packages.
Now I will abbreviate the problems with my solutions or rational as to why it is reasonable to work with.
1. Limit of 6: Major limitation, the workaround here is to create the characters quickly in DDB and then transfer them to a spreadsheet or other preferred format to free up the character space again.
2. Toggling: Minor limitation, I'd probably just toggle back and forth, adjust the size of two windows open, or utilize dual monitors.
3. Dual 1st level packages: Moderate limitation, this is really a DM's call here, but I personally prefer a system like 3.5 where skills continue to improve with levels beyond just attribute increases and selected feats. In 3.5 you gained ranks to add to your skills, which represented learning/practice, etc... Also, languages would increase in 3.5 as a PC's intelligence modifier increased. In my opinion, this extra boost with an additional 1st level can be explained as learned skills, languages, etc... It seems to me that 5e took this aspect out to try to simplify the game a bit and then introduced tools as a way to kind of make up for it, but just because you have the right tools, and the right attributes doesn't necessarily mean that you possess the right expertise.
Thanks, yeah workarounds abound. I have a subscription, so no 6 character limit. You can just download the character sheets to .pdf. No need to manually transfer them.
Using this method one should be able to adjust all the extra stuff so both match. You can overwrite things like tools, languages, proficiency and expertise. As far as I know it's only spell slots/preparations and character levels that you can't.