Hello all! The players in my group and I enjoy crafting, however we've found the RAW version of to be lacking. So, I've been working on a homebrew system for crafting magic items. A couple of things to note:
- We like high power games and magic shops, so the time to craft and sell reflect this. This can easily be adjusted up or down by limiting the ability to add ability modifiers and/or the ability to gain double proficiency in a tool (i.e. expertise) through the Master Crafter feat.
- Calculations for times to craft and sell were based on calculations made from the Sane Magic Item Prices list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?424243-Sane-Magic-Item-Prices). I also use this list to determine item rarity, rather than the DMG, because I find it better reflects the power of items.
I'm looking for constructive criticism, so please feel free to point out anything that is unclear, that you think needs work, or that you think is solid. If you have any questions, ask away!
Requirements
Proficiency in appropriate tool: - Smith’s tools - armor, weapons, ammunition, metal gear and accessories - Weaver’s tools - cloaks, capes, robes, cloth gear and accessories - Tinkerer’s tools - trinkets, enchants, ammunition, intricate gear and accessories - Leatherworker’s tools - leather armor, leather gear and accessories - Jeweler’s tools - rings, necklaces, gems, jeweled gear and accessories
Feats
Master Crafter You harness your natural talents to create high quality items. When you take this feat, choose either Dexterity, Wisdom, or Intelligence. You may add your modifier bonus for the chosen ability score to your Crafting Level Check. In addition, you gain proficiency in two tools of your choose. If you are already proficient in a tool, you add double your proficiency bonus to crafting checks with that tool.
Note: I went with the choice of ability score because DEX is favored in so many other areas. I thought about restricting it to WIS or INT, then decided to go with all three.
Creating an Item
You start the crafting process by making a Crafting Level Check. Your Crafting Level Check determines the highest level item you can create during this attempt. Your Crafting Level Check is determined by rolling one d20 plus your Craft Skill bonus, which equals your proficiency bonus with the chosen tool and any relevant ability modifiers (if you have the feat). The table below outlines the DCs and corresponding maximum item rarity that can be crafted:
DC - Max Item Rarity that can be created 15 - Common or lower 20 - Uncommon or lower 25 - Rare or lower 30 - Very Rare or lower 35 - Legendary or lower
Determine Cost to Craft
There are two special ingredients per recipe, each worth 25% the value of the item, as determined by the DM. These can be herbs or minerals gathered in the world, body parts from beasts and monsters, rare wood or ore, etc. The difficulty required to retrieve the ingredients should be based on the rarity and base cost of the item being created. The formula for determining cost to craft is: Cost to craft = Item Base Value - Value of Materials Owned.
For example, if you have an item valued at 1,000 gp and you have both of the special materials needed, the cost to craft would be 500 gp. If you had only one material, it would cost 750 gp, and if you did not have any of the materials it would be the full cost of 1,000 gp (assuming materials are available for purchase).
Progress and Completion
Progress toward completing the item is made at a rate of 25 gp x your craft skill bonus (proficiency + ability modifiers) per day. An item is finished when you have made progress equal to the value of the item. The minimum amount required is one day, except when working with an assistant, as noted below.
Selling
Items take an amount of time to sell based on their rarity. Time is measured in weeks, equivalent to 5 days at 8 hours per day. Only one item can be sold at a time. A character can refuse an offer and choose to wait one week to receive a new offer. The following table outlines how long it takes to sell an item, based on it's rarity:
Time to Sell by Item Rarity Common = 1 week Uncommon = 2 weeks Rare = 4 weeks Very Rare = 8 weeks Legendary = 16 weeks
At the end of this time, a Charisma (Persuasion) check is made an item will be sold for a value based on the following table:
Sale Price by DC 10 = 100% base price 15 = 125% base price 20 = 150% base price 25 = 175% base price 30 = 200% base price
Assistants
A character may hire one assistant to help them with crafting and one to help with selling.
A crafting assistant decreases the amount of time needed to craft an item by half. If this would reduce the time needed to craft to less than half a day, then two items of the same item can be created that day. The cost of the assistant is equal to 25% of the value of all items being crafted. For example, it would cost 250 gp to hire an assistant to help craft an item with a value of 1,000 gp.
A selling assistant allows you to sell more allows you to sell an item without your presence. The cost for the selling assistant is equal to 25% of the selling price of the item. For example, you roll a 20 for a Charisma (Persuasion) check, allowing you to sell an item valued at 1,000 gp for 150%, or 1,500 gp. The cost of hiring an assistant to sell the item would be 250 gp.
The formula [Cost to craft]=[Item Value]-[Materials Owned], with [Item Value] set to 1000 and [Materials Owned] set to 2, gives the value of [Cost to craft] as 998.
How about [Cost to craft]=[Item Value]-(([Item Value]/4)x[Materials Owned])?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
The formula [Cost to craft]=[Item Value]-[Materials Owned], with [Item Value] set to 1000 and [Materials Owned] set to 2, gives the value of [Cost to craft] as 998.
How about [Cost to craft]=[Item Value]-(([Item Value]/4)x[Materials Owned])?
Thanks for checking it out and responding. I may not have been clear when describing the cost calculation. There are always two materials required and each is worth 25% of the base item value. So in this example, 25% of 1,000gp would be 250gp per material. With both of the materials, that knocks 500gp off the price, giving us a total of 500gp to craft it.
The formula [Cost to craft]=[Item Value]-[Materials Owned], with [Item Value] set to 1000 and [Materials Owned] set to 2, gives the value of [Cost to craft] as 998.
How about [Cost to craft]=[Item Value]-(([Item Value]/4)x[Materials Owned])?
Thanks for checking it out and responding. I may not have been clear when describing the cost calculation. There are always two materials required and each is worth 25% of the base item value. So in this example, 25% of 1,000gp would be 250gp per material. With both of the materials, that knocks 500gp off the price, giving us a total of 500gp to craft it.
Sorry if that wasn't clear. Thanks again!
You were clear. I was just pointing out that the equation as written doesn't work properly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
The formula [Cost to craft]=[Item Value]-[Materials Owned], with [Item Value] set to 1000 and [Materials Owned] set to 2, gives the value of [Cost to craft] as 998.
How about [Cost to craft]=[Item Value]-(([Item Value]/4)x[Materials Owned])?
Thanks for checking it out and responding. I may not have been clear when describing the cost calculation. There are always two materials required and each is worth 25% of the base item value. So in this example, 25% of 1,000gp would be 250gp per material. With both of the materials, that knocks 500gp off the price, giving us a total of 500gp to craft it.
Sorry if that wasn't clear. Thanks again!
You were clear. I was just pointing out that the equation as written doesn't work properly.
You were clear as well, apparently my reading comprehension is on vacation. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll update it. :)
1) Sane Magic items price gives the base market prices of magic items. The seller's Persuasion attempt will be offset naturally by the buyer's Insight skill, as no skill check should ever be unopposed when there is an intelligent being they are trying to persuade. Not even mentioning the consequences of a fumbled Persuasion! With this crafting method, there will never be a reason not to buy from market -if available- and no crafter will ever make a profit selling magic items. The old 3.5 rules were similar to these calculations, except for the price being only 1/2 market price and then some XP costs, and no skill roll was required, just the Feat, which allows for a profit to the crafters.
2) A single roll at the very beginning will determine if the crafter even bothers trying to craft the object, and those DCs are almost unattainable by anyone without the Crafter Feat. A DC of 35 for Legendary isn't achievable without double Prof. bonus at or near level 20. As an example, a Lvl 20 (with INT 20) mage uses his Jeweler's tools with the Master Crafter Feat to get a total bonus of 11 plus whatever other stat bonus he'd get - usually DEX. Unless he also has a 18 DEX, immediate failure without even a roll. With double prof. because he takes the Jeweler's Toolkit twice, he totals a 17 (plus DEX), which is still at worst 80% change of failure when he starts. So does he try rolling four days in a row until he gets the 18 or better on the dice? If he doesn't have double proficiency, does he try for a week or two until he gets a critical, his confidence feeling that the time is ripe to craft? Unless your method excludes anyone who doesn't take the Feat from making items, which doesn't RP well.
It's a good start, but I'd recommend looking at 3.5 Artificer for ways to progress a magic item build, and reduce the loss if the seller happens to roll poorly. Multiple attempts during the crafting process, with one success at some time during achieving the end result once the time to craft has elapsed. There might also be a case to consider that not all item crafters need to take the Feat in order to craft items.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Can you tell me the difference between a witch and a wizard?" "Sure, a wizard is what they call you when they want to hire you, and a witch is what they call you when they're getting ready to run you out of town.” SunWolf replied ― Barbara Hambly, The Witches of Wenshar
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Hello all! The players in my group and I enjoy crafting, however we've found the RAW version of to be lacking. So, I've been working on a homebrew system for crafting magic items. A couple of things to note:
- We like high power games and magic shops, so the time to craft and sell reflect this. This can easily be adjusted up or down by limiting the ability to add ability modifiers and/or the ability to gain double proficiency in a tool (i.e. expertise) through the Master Crafter feat.
- Calculations for times to craft and sell were based on calculations made from the Sane Magic Item Prices list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?424243-Sane-Magic-Item-Prices). I also use this list to determine item rarity, rather than the DMG, because I find it better reflects the power of items.
I'm looking for constructive criticism, so please feel free to point out anything that is unclear, that you think needs work, or that you think is solid. If you have any questions, ask away!
Requirements
Proficiency in appropriate tool:
- Smith’s tools - armor, weapons, ammunition, metal gear and accessories
- Weaver’s tools - cloaks, capes, robes, cloth gear and accessories
- Tinkerer’s tools - trinkets, enchants, ammunition, intricate gear and accessories
- Leatherworker’s tools - leather armor, leather gear and accessories
- Jeweler’s tools - rings, necklaces, gems, jeweled gear and accessories
Feats
Master Crafter
You harness your natural talents to create high quality items. When you take this feat, choose either Dexterity, Wisdom, or Intelligence. You may add your modifier bonus for the chosen ability score to your Crafting Level Check. In addition, you gain proficiency in two tools of your choose. If you are already proficient in a tool, you add double your proficiency bonus to crafting checks with that tool.
Note: I went with the choice of ability score because DEX is favored in so many other areas. I thought about restricting it to WIS or INT, then decided to go with all three.
Creating an Item
You start the crafting process by making a Crafting Level Check. Your Crafting Level Check determines the highest level item you can create during this attempt. Your Crafting Level Check is determined by rolling one d20 plus your Craft Skill bonus, which equals your proficiency bonus with the chosen tool and any relevant ability modifiers (if you have the feat). The table below outlines the DCs and corresponding maximum item rarity that can be crafted:
DC - Max Item Rarity that can be created
15 - Common or lower
20 - Uncommon or lower
25 - Rare or lower
30 - Very Rare or lower
35 - Legendary or lower
Determine Cost to Craft
There are two special ingredients per recipe, each worth 25% the value of the item, as determined by the DM. These can be herbs or minerals gathered in the world, body parts from beasts and monsters, rare wood or ore, etc. The difficulty required to retrieve the ingredients should be based on the rarity and base cost of the item being created. The formula for determining cost to craft is:
Cost to craft = Item Base Value - Value of Materials Owned.
For example, if you have an item valued at 1,000 gp and you have both of the special materials needed, the cost to craft would be 500 gp. If you had only one material, it would cost 750 gp, and if you did not have any of the materials it would be the full cost of 1,000 gp (assuming materials are available for purchase).
Progress and Completion
Progress toward completing the item is made at a rate of 25 gp x your craft skill bonus (proficiency + ability modifiers) per day. An item is finished when you have made progress equal to the value of the item. The minimum amount required is one day, except when working with an assistant, as noted below.
Selling
Items take an amount of time to sell based on their rarity. Time is measured in weeks, equivalent to 5 days at 8 hours per day. Only one item can be sold at a time. A character can refuse an offer and choose to wait one week to receive a new offer. The following table outlines how long it takes to sell an item, based on it's rarity:
Time to Sell by Item Rarity
Common = 1 week
Uncommon = 2 weeks
Rare = 4 weeks
Very Rare = 8 weeks
Legendary = 16 weeks
At the end of this time, a Charisma (Persuasion) check is made an item will be sold for a value based on the following table:
Sale Price by DC
10 = 100% base price
15 = 125% base price
20 = 150% base price
25 = 175% base price
30 = 200% base price
Assistants
A character may hire one assistant to help them with crafting and one to help with selling.
A crafting assistant decreases the amount of time needed to craft an item by half. If this would reduce the time needed to craft to less than half a day, then two items of the same item can be created that day. The cost of the assistant is equal to 25% of the value of all items being crafted. For example, it would cost 250 gp to hire an assistant to help craft an item with a value of 1,000 gp.
A selling assistant allows you to sell more allows you to sell an item without your presence. The cost for the selling assistant is equal to 25% of the selling price of the item. For example, you roll a 20 for a Charisma (Persuasion) check, allowing you to sell an item valued at 1,000 gp for 150%, or 1,500 gp. The cost of hiring an assistant to sell the item would be 250 gp.
The formula [Cost to craft]=[Item Value]-[Materials Owned], with [Item Value] set to 1000 and [Materials Owned] set to 2, gives the value of [Cost to craft] as 998.
How about [Cost to craft]=[Item Value]-(([Item Value]/4)x[Materials Owned])?
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
The flaws I see with this method is two-fold.
1) Sane Magic items price gives the base market prices of magic items. The seller's Persuasion attempt will be offset naturally by the buyer's Insight skill, as no skill check should ever be unopposed when there is an intelligent being they are trying to persuade. Not even mentioning the consequences of a fumbled Persuasion! With this crafting method, there will never be a reason not to buy from market -if available- and no crafter will ever make a profit selling magic items. The old 3.5 rules were similar to these calculations, except for the price being only 1/2 market price and then some XP costs, and no skill roll was required, just the Feat, which allows for a profit to the crafters.
2) A single roll at the very beginning will determine if the crafter even bothers trying to craft the object, and those DCs are almost unattainable by anyone without the Crafter Feat. A DC of 35 for Legendary isn't achievable without double Prof. bonus at or near level 20. As an example, a Lvl 20 (with INT 20) mage uses his Jeweler's tools with the Master Crafter Feat to get a total bonus of 11 plus whatever other stat bonus he'd get - usually DEX. Unless he also has a 18 DEX, immediate failure without even a roll. With double prof. because he takes the Jeweler's Toolkit twice, he totals a 17 (plus DEX), which is still at worst 80% change of failure when he starts. So does he try rolling four days in a row until he gets the 18 or better on the dice? If he doesn't have double proficiency, does he try for a week or two until he gets a critical, his confidence feeling that the time is ripe to craft? Unless your method excludes anyone who doesn't take the Feat from making items, which doesn't RP well.
It's a good start, but I'd recommend looking at 3.5 Artificer for ways to progress a magic item build, and reduce the loss if the seller happens to roll poorly. Multiple attempts during the crafting process, with one success at some time during achieving the end result once the time to craft has elapsed. There might also be a case to consider that not all item crafters need to take the Feat in order to craft items.
“Can you tell me the difference between a witch and a wizard?"
"Sure, a wizard is what they call you when they want to hire you, and a witch is what they call you when they're getting ready to run you out of town.” SunWolf replied
― Barbara Hambly, The Witches of Wenshar