I'm working on a set of Paladin Oaths for use on the MTG plane of Innistrad. I would like help from some of the experienced members of the community on one feature of one of these Oaths.
Oath of Alabaster Paladins who take the Oath of Alabaster are dedicated to the preservation of the Blessed Sleep. They use their magic to prevent the desecration of dead humans and to undo the evil of Ghoulcallers, Skaberen, and all other forms of Necromancy. They help bolster the defenses that Bruna, and the rest of the Flight of Alabaster, provide for humanity, sometimes working closely with the angels themselves or the Moonsages to help ensure the people of Innistrad can rest in peace. They are adept spellcasters and often employ their abilities to dismantling harmful enchantments and curses.
Channel Divinity When you take this oath at 3rd level, you gain the following two Channel Divinity options:
Option 1: N/A
Option 2: Dispel Magic: As an action, you can choose any one creature, object, or magical effect within 30 feet of you. Make a single ability check using your spellcasting ability against all spells on the target. Each spell's DC is equal to 13 + the spell’s level. On each successful check, you may choose to have the spell end.
Essentially this is the Dispel Magic spell turning into a Channel Divinity feature. Is this reasonable? Or is it too strong to take a spell and use it this way? It definitely fits my flavor and since you would have to take a short or long rest to be able to use it again, I'm hoping that is a fair balancing factor.
Edit: Changed from [DC 10 + Spell Level] to [DC 13 + Spell Level]
From what I can see, no other channel divinity copies spells, but the ones with similar effects as spells are either slightly improved level 1 spells or weaker than higher level spells.
So you could take the concept of dispel magic and narrow its effectiveness. You already make a check for every spell level not just level 4 and up, that is a start. But maybe narrow it further by only being able to dispel 1 spell at a time with it, and you don't have to make a check for spell levels less than half the paladin's level (rounded down).
I had considered having it tied to paladin level, but that would mean that at 18th level, a paladin could dispel a 9th level spell without needing a check for it or anything. Which I feel like might be op (I mean level 18 you should be pretty awesome, but still...). You make a good point about things only really copying level 1 spells though. I could reduce it to only one spell effect. Do you think that would be enough to make it more reasonable? I wonder because other channel divinity effects will Turn all undead and fiends in range, so would limiting it to only one effect make it too limited for people to even want to use?
I've been running an Innistrad game irl and as a pbp for quite a while now, and Turn Undead is really powerful in such a campaign (unless your party is facing some Highborn Ghouls, which I dub immune to turning effects). I really like the idea of Alabaster Paladins (even though this flight is far less martial than Goldnight) going around and dispelling harmful enchantments.
I think a DC of 10 + the spell's level is pretty low. For example, a level 2 spell on an item has a DC of 12 to break it. This paladin, even at the lowest tier of play, most likely has a +4 or +5 to their check (+2 proficiency, +2 or +3 CHA), maybe even a +6 (with +4 CHA). These bonuses aren't unfeasible even for low level characters when using humans with any ability score generation. I'd make the DC 13 + the spell's level. Thirteen is a recurring number in the world of Innistrad, with many cards in its set using the ominous number. It makes this spell-breaking effect reasonably difficult, enough to not spam failed attempts after a number of short rests, but with a high bonus, it seems achievable enough for at least an attempt or two each time such a scenario is presented. But changing the DC to this, I'd say you wouldn't have to make a separate check for each spell affecting the target, and instead the paladin can break all spells affecting the target of levels less than half of their level, rounded down (note, not equal to).
I like changing the DC to 13. I agree it has flavorful implications and makes the ability not quite as strong. I'm definitely making that change. As far as having it affect all chosen spell effects on the target, would that be one check against the DC based on the highest level spell on the target, or one check and it only dispels the effects with a DC lower than the paladin's check result and of low enough level?
Example: Level 13 Paladin uses this against
Monster Spell of Lvl 2 (DC 15) Spell of Lvl 5 (DC 18) Spell of Lvl 7 (DC 20) (Requires Paladin of level 16 to dispel)
Paladin skill check is 17. Does this result in dispelling the Lvl 2 spell only or no spells because he didn't get at least an 18? Or is he not able to use it at all because the highest spell effect on the monster is Lvl 7 and he can't dispel that?
In general channel divinity options are on par with 2nd level spells (with a slight buff) or a 3rd level spell (with a small nerf)
My first thought here would be to include limits on the school of magic.
For paladin the first school that really come to mind are Necromancy. Perhaps give the player a second school to pick from beyond this and then from there work with what you have right now. I am not too familiar with the setting so maybe another school makes more sense. Keep in mind that paladin already has access to the Dispel Magic spell, once a high enough level is reached. So why does he want to use channel divinity over the this?
In my suggestion the reason would be a higher chance at success if the school of magic matches what the paladin specializes in. Given the limited range of use cases you could perhaps change it to paladin to also have expertise in the check instead of just adding his spell mod once.
My first thought here would be to include limits on the school of magic. For paladin the first school that really come to mind are Necromancy. Perhaps give the player a second school to pick from beyond this and then from there work with what you have right now.
I feel that this Channel Divinity Option is already likely to get less use then a lot of more traditional choices, so I am not sure I would want any limits that are likely to make it used even less regularly. While Necromancy is certainly a flavorful fit, I'm not sure picking one or two schools of magic to be able to counter is the best limitation to add. It requires more work on both the DM and the player to double-check what school a particular spell effect belongs to and requires the player to make an extra choice about which spells he or she thinks they are most likely to encounter.
Keep in mind that paladin already has access to the Dispel Magic spell, once a high enough level is reached. So why does he want to use channel divinity over the this?
This would be 6 levels earlier than they can gain access to the spell and additionally it doesn't use up a spell slot.
I like changing the DC to 13. I agree it has flavorful implications and makes the ability not quite as strong. I'm definitely making that change. As far as having it affect all chosen spell effects on the target, would that be one check against the DC based on the highest level spell on the target, or one check and it only dispels the effects with a DC lower than the paladin's check result and of low enough level?
Example: Level 13 Paladin uses this against
Monster Spell of Lvl 2 (DC 15) Spell of Lvl 5 (DC 18) Spell of Lvl 7 (DC 20) (Requires Paladin of level 16 to dispel)
Paladin skill check is 17. Does this result in dispelling the Lvl 2 spell only or no spells because he didn't get at least an 18? Or is he not able to use it at all because the highest spell effect on the monster is Lvl 7 and he can't dispel that?
I am assuming option 1?
Yeah, I'd say option 1. To me, this is more representative of a player's ability. It's important to give power and actual ability to players. I think it'd be too harsh (maaaybe even too harsh for Innistrad) that the paladin fails to dispel any effects on a target because his check didn't reach the highest level spell on the target, or that he isn't high enough level to in the first place. It seems a fine place between simplicity and complication.
With these changes do you feel it is an appropriate strength for a channel divinity feature? Or do you think it still needs some work? Also would you be interested in looking over the finished products when I complete them?
I think its strength is largely reliant on the game you're running, as with most of the Channel Divinity features. If you only propose a few and only difficult scenarios for this feature to be used, it won't appear very good.
If it feels unfinished, perhaps you can add a little fill by stating if a spell isn't broken using this feature, the paladin knows what sort of spell (like its school or its nature) is effecting the target, and its effects (all, some, or one of them).
And sure, I don't mind helping a fellow Innistrad DM.
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I'm working on a set of Paladin Oaths for use on the MTG plane of Innistrad. I would like help from some of the experienced members of the community on one feature of one of these Oaths.
Oath of Alabaster
Paladins who take the Oath of Alabaster are dedicated to the preservation of the Blessed Sleep. They use their magic to prevent the desecration of dead humans and to undo the evil of Ghoulcallers, Skaberen, and all other forms of Necromancy. They help bolster the defenses that Bruna, and the rest of the Flight of Alabaster, provide for humanity, sometimes working closely with the angels themselves or the Moonsages to help ensure the people of Innistrad can rest in peace. They are adept spellcasters and often employ their abilities to dismantling harmful enchantments and curses.
Channel Divinity
When you take this oath at 3rd level, you gain the following two Channel Divinity options:
Option 1: N/A
Option 2: Dispel Magic: As an action, you can choose any one creature, object, or magical effect within 30 feet of you. Make a single ability check using your spellcasting ability against all spells on the target. Each spell's DC is equal to 13 + the spell’s level. On each successful check, you may choose to have the spell end.
Essentially this is the Dispel Magic spell turning into a Channel Divinity feature. Is this reasonable? Or is it too strong to take a spell and use it this way? It definitely fits my flavor and since you would have to take a short or long rest to be able to use it again, I'm hoping that is a fair balancing factor.
Edit: Changed from [DC 10 + Spell Level] to [DC 13 + Spell Level]
Homebrew Human Traits Feedback Requested
From what I can see, no other channel divinity copies spells, but the ones with similar effects as spells are either slightly improved level 1 spells or weaker than higher level spells.
So you could take the concept of dispel magic and narrow its effectiveness. You already make a check for every spell level not just level 4 and up, that is a start. But maybe narrow it further by only being able to dispel 1 spell at a time with it, and you don't have to make a check for spell levels less than half the paladin's level (rounded down).
I had considered having it tied to paladin level, but that would mean that at 18th level, a paladin could dispel a 9th level spell without needing a check for it or anything. Which I feel like might be op (I mean level 18 you should be pretty awesome, but still...). You make a good point about things only really copying level 1 spells though. I could reduce it to only one spell effect. Do you think that would be enough to make it more reasonable? I wonder because other channel divinity effects will Turn all undead and fiends in range, so would limiting it to only one effect make it too limited for people to even want to use?
Homebrew Human Traits Feedback Requested
I've been running an Innistrad game irl and as a pbp for quite a while now, and Turn Undead is really powerful in such a campaign (unless your party is facing some Highborn Ghouls, which I dub immune to turning effects). I really like the idea of Alabaster Paladins (even though this flight is far less martial than Goldnight) going around and dispelling harmful enchantments.
I think a DC of 10 + the spell's level is pretty low. For example, a level 2 spell on an item has a DC of 12 to break it. This paladin, even at the lowest tier of play, most likely has a +4 or +5 to their check (+2 proficiency, +2 or +3 CHA), maybe even a +6 (with +4 CHA). These bonuses aren't unfeasible even for low level characters when using humans with any ability score generation. I'd make the DC 13 + the spell's level. Thirteen is a recurring number in the world of Innistrad, with many cards in its set using the ominous number. It makes this spell-breaking effect reasonably difficult, enough to not spam failed attempts after a number of short rests, but with a high bonus, it seems achievable enough for at least an attempt or two each time such a scenario is presented. But changing the DC to this, I'd say you wouldn't have to make a separate check for each spell affecting the target, and instead the paladin can break all spells affecting the target of levels less than half of their level, rounded down (note, not equal to).
I like changing the DC to 13. I agree it has flavorful implications and makes the ability not quite as strong. I'm definitely making that change. As far as having it affect all chosen spell effects on the target, would that be one check against the DC based on the highest level spell on the target, or one check and it only dispels the effects with a DC lower than the paladin's check result and of low enough level?
Example:
Level 13 Paladin uses this against
Monster
Spell of Lvl 2 (DC 15)
Spell of Lvl 5 (DC 18)
Spell of Lvl 7 (DC 20) (Requires Paladin of level 16 to dispel)
Paladin skill check is 17. Does this result in dispelling the Lvl 2 spell only or no spells because he didn't get at least an 18? Or is he not able to use it at all because the highest spell effect on the monster is Lvl 7 and he can't dispel that?
I am assuming option 1?
Homebrew Human Traits Feedback Requested
In general channel divinity options are on par with 2nd level spells (with a slight buff) or a 3rd level spell (with a small nerf)
My first thought here would be to include limits on the school of magic.
For paladin the first school that really come to mind are Necromancy. Perhaps give the player a second school to pick from beyond this and then from there work with what you have right now. I am not too familiar with the setting so maybe another school makes more sense. Keep in mind that paladin already has access to the Dispel Magic spell, once a high enough level is reached. So why does he want to use channel divinity over the this?
In my suggestion the reason would be a higher chance at success if the school of magic matches what the paladin specializes in. Given the limited range of use cases you could perhaps change it to paladin to also have expertise in the check instead of just adding his spell mod once.
In this case we're going with a 3rd level spell with a small nerf, which is exactly what I'm shooting for.
I feel that this Channel Divinity Option is already likely to get less use then a lot of more traditional choices, so I am not sure I would want any limits that are likely to make it used even less regularly. While Necromancy is certainly a flavorful fit, I'm not sure picking one or two schools of magic to be able to counter is the best limitation to add. It requires more work on both the DM and the player to double-check what school a particular spell effect belongs to and requires the player to make an extra choice about which spells he or she thinks they are most likely to encounter.
This would be 6 levels earlier than they can gain access to the spell and additionally it doesn't use up a spell slot.
Homebrew Human Traits Feedback Requested
Yeah, I'd say option 1. To me, this is more representative of a player's ability. It's important to give power and actual ability to players. I think it'd be too harsh (maaaybe even too harsh for Innistrad) that the paladin fails to dispel any effects on a target because his check didn't reach the highest level spell on the target, or that he isn't high enough level to in the first place. It seems a fine place between simplicity and complication.
With these changes do you feel it is an appropriate strength for a channel divinity feature? Or do you think it still needs some work? Also would you be interested in looking over the finished products when I complete them?
Homebrew Human Traits Feedback Requested
I think its strength is largely reliant on the game you're running, as with most of the Channel Divinity features. If you only propose a few and only difficult scenarios for this feature to be used, it won't appear very good.
If it feels unfinished, perhaps you can add a little fill by stating if a spell isn't broken using this feature, the paladin knows what sort of spell (like its school or its nature) is effecting the target, and its effects (all, some, or one of them).
And sure, I don't mind helping a fellow Innistrad DM.