This new feat is something I am considering. Have not seen the like. (May have just missed it.)
Superior Concentration
Spellcaster may have two concentration spells going at once. Spellcaster makes only one roll for any circumstance that requires a concentration roll. Failure means he loses both spells.
I have been pondering this lately and wondering if this shouldn't just be a rule, where the DC of keeping concentration increases by a static amount based on the number of concentration spells you have burning. So for example, each additional spell would increase the DC by 5 and like your feat says, failure to meet the saving throws dc ends both spells.
Or possibly keeping more than one spell going could cause exhaustion after so many rounds.
Then your feat could come in and instead either negate the exhaustion or remove the extra dc up to 3 spells or something to that effect.
Spellcaster can have as many concentration spells going equal to their spell casting Ability modifier. For every concentration spell above the first is a +3 to concentration roll. Spell casters can have multiple concentration spells going for a number of rounds equal to CON modifier. For every round after that, spell caster receives an Exhaustion level.
...Not sure I like it. Just an idea. There could be a Feat that modifies this
I like having the number of rounds equal to the con mod, it balances out nothing having the +5, but rather +3 to the concentration checks.
If you were doing a feat, I'd say it would possibly allow you to add your proficiency to the number of rounds you can maintain the spells for before becoming exhausted. Or Lower the concentration DC from +3 per spell to +1 per spell.
I was just thinking the Feat would allow two concentration spells with no penalties, like my initial post, and then starting with the third start applying penalties. The second spell in the Feat would still count towards the max they can have. I don't want to make it too easy for a spell caster to have multiple concentration spells, but only having one is a mechanic of 5E I really don't like
OK, back to this... Here's the new game mechanic..
Spellcasters can have as many concentration spells going equal to their spell casting Ability modifier(Wizards = INT, Clerics=WIS etc). For every concentration spell above the first is a +3 to concentration roll DC. On a failed concentration roll, spellcaster loses all spells. Spellcasters can have multiple concentration spells going for a number of rounds equal to CON modifier with no ill affect. For every round after that, spellcasters receives an Exhaustion level.
New Feat...
Superior Concentration: Spellcasters can have two concentration spells going at the same time as if he just has one. Therefore any affect of having multiple concentration spells going at the same time don't start until the spellcaster has a third concentration spell going. Example: A Wizard with a INT Mod. of +3 can have 4 concentration spells going at once and would only have a +6 to Concentration DC roll.
.....
I probably could use better wording. especially on the Feat, but basically this is what I have in mind
I guess one thing that needs to be taken into consideration would be multiclass spell casters. If I'm Cleric 5 and Sorc 5, with a wisdom of 14 and a Charisma of 16, do I go by the individual stats of each class for determining how many concentration spells I can have going, or do I just go off the higher stat?
Very good question. Had to go back and reread Multiclassing, which really did not help.
It may seem arbitrary but I would say if you have spells from different class spell list going at once you should use the lower of the Ability Mod. So in your example it would be the 14 WIS. Having multiple concentration spells going at once is a big thing and you know what they say, You're only as strong as your weakest link.
Now in your example if you just have Sorc spells going then use the CHR
Ya know at first I started forming a counter argument about it going off the weakest link, advocating for multi class build, but after thinking about it it a bit more I feel like that works just fine. :-)
I was just thinking the Feat would allow two concentration spells with no penalties, like my initial post, and then starting with the third start applying penalties. The second spell in the Feat would still count towards the max they can have. I don't want to make it too easy for a spell caster to have multiple concentration spells, but only having one is a mechanic of 5E I really don't like
I like your thinking, the only problem is, there's no negative effect UNLESS you have to make a concentration check. So, if you never get hit, you're looking at the ability to concentrate on a bunch of spells.
I'd possibly have it be like this: you can have one concentration effect with no negative results, but after the first, you have to make a concentration check EACH time you use your action (it's easy to concentrate on multiple things when not doing anything else, but much harder when you are attempting to do something "taxing" like attacking or casting a spell). The DC for this check would depend upon the combined spell levels of concentration. So maybe 8 + combined spell levels (so concentrating on 2-3 1st level spells would be relatively easy, but concentrating on anything higher level or more spells would be much more difficult. A failure means you either lose that action (as you are too busy concentrating to successfully act) or you lose the spells you are concentrating on (as you lost your focus because of the action).
The regular rules of concentration apply as well (so if you get hit for example). Though, I'd maybe make it so that you have to a concentration check spell to see which ones you fail to concentrate on (like a reverse dispel magic)
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I was just thinking the Feat would allow two concentration spells with no penalties, like my initial post, and then starting with the third start applying penalties. The second spell in the Feat would still count towards the max they can have. I don't want to make it too easy for a spell caster to have multiple concentration spells, but only having one is a mechanic of 5E I really don't like
I like your thinking, the only problem is, there's no negative effect UNLESS you have to make a concentration check. So, if you never get hit, you're looking at the ability to concentrate on a bunch of spells.
I'd possibly have it be like this: you can have one concentration effect with no negative results, but after the first, you have to make a concentration check EACH time you use your action (it's easy to concentrate on multiple things when not doing anything else, but much harder when you are attempting to do something "taxing" like attacking or casting a spell). The DC for this check would depend upon the combined spell levels of concentration. So maybe 8 + combined spell levels (so concentrating on 2-3 1st level spells would be relatively easy, but concentrating on anything higher level or more spells would be much more difficult. A failure means you either lose that action (as you are too busy concentrating to successfully act) or you lose the spells you are concentrating on (as you lost your focus because of the action).
The regular rules of concentration apply as well (so if you get hit for example).
This one seems best to me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I don't know that I"d use the, "Everyone will want this, so it is too powerful" measuring stick to measure this with. Right now every caster wants the Warcaster and Resilient feats because that is the current meta. Its what the min/maxers have said makes for the most optimized build. The new rule works without the feat, and can be useful to casters, the Feat just makes it a little easier, and doesn't completely negate the negative side effects, so it seems balanced to me. Obviously this is all my personal opinion.
As for casters being the most powerful in previous versions and this versions, have no argument about previous version, but in this edition I feel things are pretty balanced. Obviously there will always be broken builds (warlock/paladin smite build for instance) but that's something that in my opinion should be contained by the DM not by the mechanics.
If you really want to allow multiple concentration consider something simple, e.g.:
When casting a second concentration spell, you must use an action or a bonus action or lose concentration of the first spell.
On subsequent turns you must use your action to hold concentration on both spells.
While concentrating on two spells, you have disadvantage on concentration checks and if you fail a concentration check you lose both spells
The feat could either "unlock" this ability or reduce the required action to a bonus action.
I'm not sure what you mean by when casting a second spell you have to use an action, you're already using an action to cast your second spell. If you could clarify that point for me? Although I would tend towards this simplified version if I were to use this, it still seems unbalanced.
Something else that has not been accounted for here is that concentration spells tend to be area effect spells which could be easily combined to make some devastating sustained combos that make spell casters overpowered early on. Just level two spells "hold person" or "Maximilian's earthen grasp" plus any other area effect spell like "create bonfire" forces the Target to make two saving throws each turn to overcome the spells.
To balance it more I would say that the Target only needs to succeed in one saving throw. Stronger combos such as "sickening radiance" and another hold spell would quickly kill anything because after third turn the enemy has disadvantage on saving throws; or "Reduce" paired with any strength saving throw.
I would also make that a feat with high prerequisites like 17 ability in two of the three mental abilities, or 15 in all three, or require a use of inspiration so it's not over used. A character with that ability would need to have handicaps or limitations elsewhere to work around, unbalanced and undone in other ways.
My favorite thing about 5e is that magic isn't as overpowering as it used to be. A single high level spell caster shouldn't be able to do major damage to most of the enemies every turn, which is why the area of effect spells require concentration. A high level fighter left with cleanup duty after the mage had their turn is not fun.
I also think this option is extremely powerful. So Ist would be careful about free reign there.
Limitations could include a feat requirement that allows to upkeep a second concentration spell only If one of the two is a Spell chosen when picking the feat (so you Had to Pick Concentrator: Darkness etc.), allowing to buy the feat multiple times. Also spellcasters should not be allowed to cast other spells while concentrating on two spells. Cantrips could be an exception.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This new feat is something I am considering. Have not seen the like. (May have just missed it.)
Superior Concentration
Spellcaster may have two concentration spells going at once. Spellcaster makes only one roll for any circumstance that requires a concentration roll. Failure means he loses both spells.
I have been pondering this lately and wondering if this shouldn't just be a rule, where the DC of keeping concentration increases by a static amount based on the number of concentration spells you have burning. So for example, each additional spell would increase the DC by 5 and like your feat says, failure to meet the saving throws dc ends both spells.
Or possibly keeping more than one spell going could cause exhaustion after so many rounds.
Then your feat could come in and instead either negate the exhaustion or remove the extra dc up to 3 spells or something to that effect.
You bring up some good ideas. Need to reread exhaustion rules.
What about something like this....
Spellcaster can have as many concentration spells going equal to their spell casting Ability modifier. For every concentration spell above the first is a +3 to concentration roll. Spell casters can have multiple concentration spells going for a number of rounds equal to CON modifier. For every round after that, spell caster receives an Exhaustion level.
...Not sure I like it. Just an idea. There could be a Feat that modifies this
I like having the number of rounds equal to the con mod, it balances out nothing having the +5, but rather +3 to the concentration checks.
If you were doing a feat, I'd say it would possibly allow you to add your proficiency to the number of rounds you can maintain the spells for before becoming exhausted. Or Lower the concentration DC from +3 per spell to +1 per spell.
Thoughts?
I was just thinking the Feat would allow two concentration spells with no penalties, like my initial post, and then starting with the third start applying penalties. The second spell in the Feat would still count towards the max they can have. I don't want to make it too easy for a spell caster to have multiple concentration spells, but only having one is a mechanic of 5E I really don't like
Agreed on the mechanic. Using the feat that way would be good too.
OK, back to this... Here's the new game mechanic..
Spellcasters can have as many concentration spells going equal to their spell casting Ability modifier(Wizards = INT, Clerics=WIS etc). For every concentration spell above the first is a +3 to concentration roll DC. On a failed concentration roll, spellcaster loses all spells. Spellcasters can have multiple concentration spells going for a number of rounds equal to CON modifier with no ill affect. For every round after that, spellcasters receives an Exhaustion level.
New Feat...
Superior Concentration: Spellcasters can have two concentration spells going at the same time as if he just has one. Therefore any affect of having multiple concentration spells going at the same time don't start until the spellcaster has a third concentration spell going. Example: A Wizard with a INT Mod. of +3 can have 4 concentration spells going at once and would only have a +6 to Concentration DC roll.
.....
I probably could use better wording. especially on the Feat, but basically this is what I have in mind
That looks really good, I am going to adopt this for both my tabletop and upcoming pbp games.
I guess one thing that needs to be taken into consideration would be multiclass spell casters. If I'm Cleric 5 and Sorc 5, with a wisdom of 14 and a Charisma of 16, do I go by the individual stats of each class for determining how many concentration spells I can have going, or do I just go off the higher stat?
Very good question. Had to go back and reread Multiclassing, which really did not help.
It may seem arbitrary but I would say if you have spells from different class spell list going at once you should use the lower of the Ability Mod. So in your example it would be the 14 WIS. Having multiple concentration spells going at once is a big thing and you know what they say, You're only as strong as your weakest link.
Now in your example if you just have Sorc spells going then use the CHR
Ya know at first I started forming a counter argument about it going off the weakest link, advocating for multi class build, but after thinking about it it a bit more I feel like that works just fine. :-)
I like your thinking, the only problem is, there's no negative effect UNLESS you have to make a concentration check. So, if you never get hit, you're looking at the ability to concentrate on a bunch of spells.
I'd possibly have it be like this: you can have one concentration effect with no negative results, but after the first, you have to make a concentration check EACH time you use your action (it's easy to concentrate on multiple things when not doing anything else, but much harder when you are attempting to do something "taxing" like attacking or casting a spell). The DC for this check would depend upon the combined spell levels of concentration. So maybe 8 + combined spell levels (so concentrating on 2-3 1st level spells would be relatively easy, but concentrating on anything higher level or more spells would be much more difficult. A failure means you either lose that action (as you are too busy concentrating to successfully act) or you lose the spells you are concentrating on (as you lost your focus because of the action).
The regular rules of concentration apply as well (so if you get hit for example). Though, I'd maybe make it so that you have to a concentration check spell to see which ones you fail to concentrate on (like a reverse dispel magic)
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
I'd probably say bonus actions count too (any action but movement basically).
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Honestly, I don't think allowing spellcasters to concentrate on multiple spells is a good idea.
Spellcasters have been and still are the most powerful classes (especially in later levels).
Restricting them to only one maintained spell is one way to keep their power curbed.
You are creating a feat that probably every full caster would want, and that is usually a sign that it's just too good.
Just some things to consider.
I don't know that I"d use the, "Everyone will want this, so it is too powerful" measuring stick to measure this with. Right now every caster wants the Warcaster and Resilient feats because that is the current meta. Its what the min/maxers have said makes for the most optimized build. The new rule works without the feat, and can be useful to casters, the Feat just makes it a little easier, and doesn't completely negate the negative side effects, so it seems balanced to me. Obviously this is all my personal opinion.
As for casters being the most powerful in previous versions and this versions, have no argument about previous version, but in this edition I feel things are pretty balanced. Obviously there will always be broken builds (warlock/paladin smite build for instance) but that's something that in my opinion should be contained by the DM not by the mechanics.
If you really want to allow multiple concentration consider something simple, e.g.:
When casting a second concentration spell, you must use an action or a bonus action or lose concentration of the first spell.
On subsequent turns you must use your action to hold concentration on both spells.
While concentrating on two spells, you have disadvantage on concentration checks and if you fail a concentration check you lose both spells
The feat could either "unlock" this ability or reduce the required action to a bonus action.
I also think this option is extremely powerful. So Ist would be careful about free reign there.
Limitations could include a feat requirement that allows to upkeep a second concentration spell only If one of the two is a Spell chosen when picking the feat (so you Had to Pick Concentrator: Darkness etc.), allowing to buy the feat multiple times. Also spellcasters should not be allowed to cast other spells while concentrating on two spells. Cantrips could be an exception.