First time D&D player but previous experience playing GURPS (12 years ago)
Have a fantastic character and back story in mind for him with tons of flavour and an almost blank slate for the DM to build as the game progresses. But I’m not sure if I’m building him correctly.
Stats after bonuses: 18,15,17,12,14,12
Not sure what simple weapon I should take (keeping in mind what I can do with spider climb later at lvl 3)
Way of the Open Palm is more the “meta”/more useful/free perks during combat. But I’ve decided to go with Way of the Long Death cause it fits the back story and personality traits of the character, fits better flavour wise and I feel CAN be more fun to play in general. But as a new player, would you guys suggest something more “mainstream”?
I did roll stats. Definitely lucked out on some of them. My Barbarian and a discarded Dwarf did NOT fare as well as this one, that’s for sure.
Can you clarify why Higher STR would be a waste? I would do more damage per hit and Athletic checks are important to a monk are they not? Or am I confusing that with Acrobatics?
I’ve been told that Monks favour a high CON. I don’t have any of the books yet so I haven’t been able to really strategize any builds yet.
I was also thinking the quarter staff or spear. Again, haven’t looked up the differences yet. I’m assuming the staff is Bludgeoning dmg with some sort of range to it and the spear is the same but with Piercing dmg instead. Is that correct?
Monks should have the highest stats in Dexterity and Wisdom. Those two scores influence their armor class, and monks also use dexterity bonuses for their attack and damage rolls.
The spear and quarterstaff are very similar, both can be wielded one or two handed (with the two handed maneuver inflicting 1d8 damage rather than 1d6). The spear, unlike the quarterstaff, can be thrown.
Strength is a dump stat for monks. Dex and Wis are your most important stats, but CON is also important. It's one of the reasons that monks are considered one of the most MAD characters in 5e. It's also why many monks don't bother with feats, as you need your ability increases every 4 levels to get those stats up.
My monk is getting ready to hit level 13. I think I've rolled 2-3 strength checks since I started. It has no effect on combat whatsoever.
Strength is a dump stat for monks. Dex and Wis are your most important stats, but CON is also important. It's one of the reasons that monks are considered one of the most MAD characters in 5e. It's also why many monks don't bother with feats, as you need your ability increases every 4 levels to get those stats up.
My monk is getting ready to hit level 13. I think I've rolled 2-3 strength checks since I started. It has no effect on combat whatsoever.
This is false, but it's really difficult building an effective monk to demonstrate that. The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC, but AC is kind of a big deal. A monk who doesn't need dex for ac is better (before feats that change the math, namely elven accuracy) with strength than dexterity, because strength checks have a huge impact on combat if you use them properly. Here's an example build:
Yortle the Tortle, L4 Monk (Way of the Long Death)
S17 W16 Con14 Cha10, L4 ASI is Skill Expert (Str, Athletics) for S18 Athletics Expertise.
Yortle functions like a D18 W16 Con14 monk, except he's competent at grapples and shoves without needing to be an Astral Self monk (or an Open Hand monk, whose core mechanic is shove with important upgrades and nerfs). When Yortle reaches S20 his AC sadly will not rise, of course.
Astral Self monks can attack and grapple and shove with their wisdom, so there's room there to de-emphasize dex, where again, the point is you only need dex for ac, and Athletics checks are great in combat.
Strength being the Dump Stat always strikes me as a meme. like something somebody read in a guide once without understanding why and has parroted it ever since. Realistically Intelligence or Charisma could be just as easily dumped. The limited number of skill proficiencies that a monk gets means that your not going to really get a good score most of the time in most things intelligence or charisma based even if you dump strength. So even if you get proficiency in them mot of the time your getting a bigger bonus just from the proficiency bonus itself. Having a higher score in either is only really going to help for a few saves or if your really lucky on skill checks... Or your purposely making a build emphasizing yet another stat.
Dump Stats are almost always individual choice. There is no one universal dump stat for anybody. And all Dump Stat actually means is that you have to sacifice somewhere so you picked the things based upon that attribute since you have made it your lowest.
Many will give all kinds of pseudo-intellectual reasons based upon things like the number of skills attributed to various stats. But the reality is those usually don't actually mean anything because the differences are usually so small when it comes to skill rolls that your not really gaining much even with trying to gain the system in that way and your still best picking the stats that serve your character best and dumping the one that you personally don't wish to focus on with that character.
Strength is a dump stat for monks. Dex and Wis are your most important stats, but CON is also important. It's one of the reasons that monks are considered one of the most MAD characters in 5e. It's also why many monks don't bother with feats, as you need your ability increases every 4 levels to get those stats up.
My monk is getting ready to hit level 13. I think I've rolled 2-3 strength checks since I started. It has no effect on combat whatsoever.
This is false, but it's really difficult building an effective monk to demonstrate that. The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC, but AC is kind of a big deal.
Strength is a dump stat for monks. Dex and Wis are your most important stats, but CON is also important. It's one of the reasons that monks are considered one of the most MAD characters in 5e. It's also why many monks don't bother with feats, as you need your ability increases every 4 levels to get those stats up.
My monk is getting ready to hit level 13. I think I've rolled 2-3 strength checks since I started. It has no effect on combat whatsoever.
This is false, but it's really difficult building an effective monk to demonstrate that. The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC, but AC is kind of a big deal.
Also to hit and damage, of course...
to hit and damage is just as easily covered by Strength. Even when Using Martial Arts.
Strength being the Dump Stat always strikes me as a meme. like something somebody read in a guide once without understanding why and has parroted it ever since. Realistically Intelligence or Charisma could be just as easily dumped. The limited number of skill proficiencies that a monk gets means that your not going to really get a good score most of the time in most things intelligence or charisma based even if you dump strength. So even if you get proficiency in them mot of the time your getting a bigger bonus just from the proficiency bonus itself. Having a higher score in either is only really going to help for a few saves or if your really lucky on skill checks... Or your purposely making a build emphasizing yet another stat.
Dump Stats are almost always individual choice. There is no one universal dump stat for anybody. And all Dump Stat actually means is that you have to sacifice somewhere so you picked the things based upon that attribute since you have made it your lowest.
Many will give all kinds of pseudo-intellectual reasons based upon things like the number of skills attributed to various stats. But the reality is those usually don't actually mean anything because the differences are usually so small when it comes to skill rolls that your not really gaining much even with trying to gain the system in that way and your still best picking the stats that serve your character best and dumping the one that you personally don't wish to focus on with that character.
I didn't say it was the only dump stat. Charisma is the most dump-able of the 3.
Strength is a dump stat for monks. Dex and Wis are your most important stats, but CON is also important. It's one of the reasons that monks are considered one of the most MAD characters in 5e. It's also why many monks don't bother with feats, as you need your ability increases every 4 levels to get those stats up.
My monk is getting ready to hit level 13. I think I've rolled 2-3 strength checks since I started. It has no effect on combat whatsoever.
This is false, but it's really difficult building an effective monk to demonstrate that. The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC, but AC is kind of a big deal.
Also to hit and damage, of course...
to hit and damage is just as easily covered by Strength. Even when Using Martial Arts.
Not just as easily. If you pump Dex you get all three (AC, to hit & damage). If you go for strength you don't get the AC. Therefor, Dex is more useful.
Strength is a dump stat for monks. Dex and Wis are your most important stats, but CON is also important. It's one of the reasons that monks are considered one of the most MAD characters in 5e. It's also why many monks don't bother with feats, as you need your ability increases every 4 levels to get those stats up.
My monk is getting ready to hit level 13. I think I've rolled 2-3 strength checks since I started. It has no effect on combat whatsoever.
This is false, but it's really difficult building an effective monk to demonstrate that. The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC, but AC is kind of a big deal.
Also to hit and damage, of course...
No, Strength is fine for hitting and damaging. The only time a Monk needs to hit and damage without Strength, they need Wisdom, so Dexterity wouldn't help. Any time they're damaging with Dexterity, Strength would also do, because they're a melee class.
Have you read the monk description from the PH: "You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls for your unarmed strikes and monk weapons."
Strength is a dump stat for monks. Dex and Wis are your most important stats, but CON is also important. It's one of the reasons that monks are considered one of the most MAD characters in 5e. It's also why many monks don't bother with feats, as you need your ability increases every 4 levels to get those stats up.
My monk is getting ready to hit level 13. I think I've rolled 2-3 strength checks since I started. It has no effect on combat whatsoever.
This is false, but it's really difficult building an effective monk to demonstrate that. The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC, but AC is kind of a big deal.
Also to hit and damage, of course...
to hit and damage is just as easily covered by Strength. Even when Using Martial Arts.
Not just as easily. If you pump Dex you get all three (AC, to hit & damage). If you go for strength you don't get the AC. Therefor, Dex is more useful.
No... This is a bit of a sunken cost fallacy. Saying that because you Get AC out of it that Strength doesn't do to hit and damage just as easily. The Truth is that Strength does in fact do to hit and damage just as easily. There is no difference in investment to do strength if all your concerned about is to hit and to damage. The need to apply AC into the mix doesn't apply but your need to sink into the cost of AC as well is what makes you think dex is better when it comes to to hit and Damage.
But this is also driven by the importance you put on AC and the investment in the cost of it as well. yet if the AC on the Monk was really as bad as many people claimed then it would not be a real factor in deciding any of this. But when we work with the truth that AC can actually be quite good on a Monk just from it's alternate Armor and purely ASI's then Dex becomes more valuable because it affects more things. However, it still would not do to hit and damage any better than strength even with that widened consideration to other factors.
However if a player has some reason not to invest in AC as much, Then Strength becomes just as viable to increase as Dex does. This is actually the basis behind many Tortle Monk Builds.
Strength is a dump stat for monks. Dex and Wis are your most important stats, but CON is also important. It's one of the reasons that monks are considered one of the most MAD characters in 5e. It's also why many monks don't bother with feats, as you need your ability increases every 4 levels to get those stats up.
My monk is getting ready to hit level 13. I think I've rolled 2-3 strength checks since I started. It has no effect on combat whatsoever.
This is false, but it's really difficult building an effective monk to demonstrate that. The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC, but AC is kind of a big deal.
Also to hit and damage, of course...
to hit and damage is just as easily covered by Strength. Even when Using Martial Arts.
Not just as easily. If you pump Dex you get all three (AC, to hit & damage). If you go for strength you don't get the AC. Therefor, Dex is more useful.
No... This is a bit of a sunken cost fallacy. Saying that because you Get AC out of it that Strength doesn't do to hit and damage just as easily. The Truth is that Strength does in fact do to hit and damage just as easily. There is no difference in investment to do strength if all your concerned about is to hit and to damage. The need to apply AC into the mix doesn't apply but your need to sink into the cost of AC as well is what makes you think dex is better when it comes to to hit and Damage.
Never said that "dex is better when it comes to to hit and Damage". I replied to a completely false statement that "The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC". Which is false, since they can also use Dex for to hit and damage. So monks don't *need* strength for that. They can use strength for to hit and damage, but they don't need to. You do realize this, yes?
Strength is a dump stat for monks. Dex and Wis are your most important stats, but CON is also important. It's one of the reasons that monks are considered one of the most MAD characters in 5e. It's also why many monks don't bother with feats, as you need your ability increases every 4 levels to get those stats up.
My monk is getting ready to hit level 13. I think I've rolled 2-3 strength checks since I started. It has no effect on combat whatsoever.
This is false, but it's really difficult building an effective monk to demonstrate that. The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC, but AC is kind of a big deal.
Also to hit and damage, of course...
to hit and damage is just as easily covered by Strength. Even when Using Martial Arts.
Not just as easily. If you pump Dex you get all three (AC, to hit & damage). If you go for strength you don't get the AC. Therefor, Dex is more useful.
No... This is a bit of a sunken cost fallacy. Saying that because you Get AC out of it that Strength doesn't do to hit and damage just as easily. The Truth is that Strength does in fact do to hit and damage just as easily. There is no difference in investment to do strength if all your concerned about is to hit and to damage. The need to apply AC into the mix doesn't apply but your need to sink into the cost of AC as well is what makes you think dex is better when it comes to to hit and Damage.
Never said that "dex is better when it comes to to hit and Damage". I replied to a completely false statement that "The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC". Which is false, since they can also use Dex for to hit and damage. So monks don't *need* strength for that. They can use strength for to hit and damage, but they don't need to. You do realize this, yes?
You do realize that because they can put dots into Strength they don't NEED Dex for those things either right?
Strength is a dump stat for monks. Dex and Wis are your most important stats, but CON is also important. It's one of the reasons that monks are considered one of the most MAD characters in 5e. It's also why many monks don't bother with feats, as you need your ability increases every 4 levels to get those stats up.
My monk is getting ready to hit level 13. I think I've rolled 2-3 strength checks since I started. It has no effect on combat whatsoever.
This is false, but it's really difficult building an effective monk to demonstrate that. The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC, but AC is kind of a big deal.
Also to hit and damage, of course...
to hit and damage is just as easily covered by Strength. Even when Using Martial Arts.
Not just as easily. If you pump Dex you get all three (AC, to hit & damage). If you go for strength you don't get the AC. Therefor, Dex is more useful.
No... This is a bit of a sunken cost fallacy. Saying that because you Get AC out of it that Strength doesn't do to hit and damage just as easily. The Truth is that Strength does in fact do to hit and damage just as easily. There is no difference in investment to do strength if all your concerned about is to hit and to damage. The need to apply AC into the mix doesn't apply but your need to sink into the cost of AC as well is what makes you think dex is better when it comes to to hit and Damage.
Never said that "dex is better when it comes to to hit and Damage". I replied to a completely false statement that "The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC". Which is false, since they can also use Dex for to hit and damage. So monks don't *need* strength for that. They can use strength for to hit and damage, but they don't need to. You do realize this, yes?
You do realize that because they can put dots into Strength they don't NEED Dex for those things either right?
Never said they did, but nice strawman. But since "dots" is a limited resource it is more effective to pay for the ability that gives you three values instead of in practive paying double. Now, do you have anything relevant to add or just more strawmen?
Strength is a dump stat for monks. Dex and Wis are your most important stats, but CON is also important. It's one of the reasons that monks are considered one of the most MAD characters in 5e. It's also why many monks don't bother with feats, as you need your ability increases every 4 levels to get those stats up.
My monk is getting ready to hit level 13. I think I've rolled 2-3 strength checks since I started. It has no effect on combat whatsoever.
This is false, but it's really difficult building an effective monk to demonstrate that. The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC, but AC is kind of a big deal.
Also to hit and damage, of course...
to hit and damage is just as easily covered by Strength. Even when Using Martial Arts.
Not just as easily. If you pump Dex you get all three (AC, to hit & damage). If you go for strength you don't get the AC. Therefor, Dex is more useful.
No... This is a bit of a sunken cost fallacy. Saying that because you Get AC out of it that Strength doesn't do to hit and damage just as easily. The Truth is that Strength does in fact do to hit and damage just as easily. There is no difference in investment to do strength if all your concerned about is to hit and to damage. The need to apply AC into the mix doesn't apply but your need to sink into the cost of AC as well is what makes you think dex is better when it comes to to hit and Damage.
Never said that "dex is better when it comes to to hit and Damage". I replied to a completely false statement that "The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC". Which is false, since they can also use Dex for to hit and damage. So monks don't *need* strength for that. They can use strength for to hit and damage, but they don't need to. You do realize this, yes?
You do realize that because they can put dots into Strength they don't NEED Dex for those things either right?
Never said they did, but nice strawman. But since "dots" is a limited resource it is more effective to pay for the ability that gives you three values instead of in practive paying double. Now, do you have anything relevant to add or just more strawmen?
I didn't strawman at all. You want to call it a strawman to attempt to invalidate what I am saying. But everything i said was the truth. The Three Value consideration only matters when you have reason to put all the weight on all three. There are several reasons not to. Of which I named a few of them. Which your ignoring and trying to say I straw manned when I didn't.
And just for the record. You did in fact say that they did NEED Dexterity farther up in the chain but did not NEED strength and listed to hit and Damage as reason why they needed it.
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Hello everyone!
First time D&D player but previous experience playing GURPS (12 years ago)
Have a fantastic character and back story in mind for him with tons of flavour and an almost blank slate for the DM to build as the game progresses. But I’m not sure if I’m building him correctly.
Stats after bonuses: 18,15,17,12,14,12
Not sure what simple weapon I should take (keeping in mind what I can do with spider climb later at lvl 3)
Way of the Open Palm is more the “meta”/more useful/free perks during combat. But I’ve decided to go with Way of the Long Death cause it fits the back story and personality traits of the character, fits better flavour wise and I feel CAN be more fun to play in general. But as a new player, would you guys suggest something more “mainstream”?
Thoughts?
Thanks for taking the time.
Did you roll the stats? 18 strength is a waste.
Quarterstaff or spear are good choices.
I did roll stats. Definitely lucked out on some of them. My Barbarian and a discarded Dwarf did NOT fare as well as this one, that’s for sure.
Can you clarify why Higher STR would be a waste? I would do more damage per hit and Athletic checks are important to a monk are they not? Or am I confusing that with Acrobatics?
I’ve been told that Monks favour a high CON. I don’t have any of the books yet so I haven’t been able to really strategize any builds yet.
I was also thinking the quarter staff or spear. Again, haven’t looked up the differences yet. I’m assuming the staff is Bludgeoning dmg with some sort of range to it and the spear is the same but with Piercing dmg instead. Is that correct?
Monks should have the highest stats in Dexterity and Wisdom. Those two scores influence their armor class, and monks also use dexterity bonuses for their attack and damage rolls.
The spear and quarterstaff are very similar, both can be wielded one or two handed (with the two handed maneuver inflicting 1d8 damage rather than 1d6). The spear, unlike the quarterstaff, can be thrown.
Strength is a dump stat for monks. Dex and Wis are your most important stats, but CON is also important. It's one of the reasons that monks are considered one of the most MAD characters in 5e. It's also why many monks don't bother with feats, as you need your ability increases every 4 levels to get those stats up.
My monk is getting ready to hit level 13. I think I've rolled 2-3 strength checks since I started. It has no effect on combat whatsoever.
This is false, but it's really difficult building an effective monk to demonstrate that. The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC, but AC is kind of a big deal. A monk who doesn't need dex for ac is better (before feats that change the math, namely elven accuracy) with strength than dexterity, because strength checks have a huge impact on combat if you use them properly. Here's an example build:
Yortle the Tortle, L4 Monk (Way of the Long Death)
S17 W16 Con14 Cha10, L4 ASI is Skill Expert (Str, Athletics) for S18 Athletics Expertise.
Yortle functions like a D18 W16 Con14 monk, except he's competent at grapples and shoves without needing to be an Astral Self monk (or an Open Hand monk, whose core mechanic is shove with important upgrades and nerfs). When Yortle reaches S20 his AC sadly will not rise, of course.
Astral Self monks can attack and grapple and shove with their wisdom, so there's room there to de-emphasize dex, where again, the point is you only need dex for ac, and Athletics checks are great in combat.
Strength being the Dump Stat always strikes me as a meme. like something somebody read in a guide once without understanding why and has parroted it ever since. Realistically Intelligence or Charisma could be just as easily dumped. The limited number of skill proficiencies that a monk gets means that your not going to really get a good score most of the time in most things intelligence or charisma based even if you dump strength. So even if you get proficiency in them mot of the time your getting a bigger bonus just from the proficiency bonus itself. Having a higher score in either is only really going to help for a few saves or if your really lucky on skill checks... Or your purposely making a build emphasizing yet another stat.
Dump Stats are almost always individual choice. There is no one universal dump stat for anybody. And all Dump Stat actually means is that you have to sacifice somewhere so you picked the things based upon that attribute since you have made it your lowest.
Many will give all kinds of pseudo-intellectual reasons based upon things like the number of skills attributed to various stats. But the reality is those usually don't actually mean anything because the differences are usually so small when it comes to skill rolls that your not really gaining much even with trying to gain the system in that way and your still best picking the stats that serve your character best and dumping the one that you personally don't wish to focus on with that character.
Also to hit and damage, of course...
to hit and damage is just as easily covered by Strength. Even when Using Martial Arts.
I didn't say it was the only dump stat. Charisma is the most dump-able of the 3.
Not just as easily. If you pump Dex you get all three (AC, to hit & damage). If you go for strength you don't get the AC. Therefor, Dex is more useful.
No, Strength is fine for hitting and damaging. The only time a Monk needs to hit and damage without Strength, they need Wisdom, so Dexterity wouldn't help. Any time they're damaging with Dexterity, Strength would also do, because they're a melee class.
Have you read the monk description from the PH: "You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls for your unarmed strikes and monk weapons."
No... This is a bit of a sunken cost fallacy. Saying that because you Get AC out of it that Strength doesn't do to hit and damage just as easily. The Truth is that Strength does in fact do to hit and damage just as easily. There is no difference in investment to do strength if all your concerned about is to hit and to damage. The need to apply AC into the mix doesn't apply but your need to sink into the cost of AC as well is what makes you think dex is better when it comes to to hit and Damage.
But this is also driven by the importance you put on AC and the investment in the cost of it as well. yet if the AC on the Monk was really as bad as many people claimed then it would not be a real factor in deciding any of this. But when we work with the truth that AC can actually be quite good on a Monk just from it's alternate Armor and purely ASI's then Dex becomes more valuable because it affects more things. However, it still would not do to hit and damage any better than strength even with that widened consideration to other factors.
However if a player has some reason not to invest in AC as much, Then Strength becomes just as viable to increase as Dex does. This is actually the basis behind many Tortle Monk Builds.
Never said that "dex is better when it comes to to hit and Damage". I replied to a completely false statement that "The *only* thing monks need dex for is AC". Which is false, since they can also use Dex for to hit and damage. So monks don't *need* strength for that. They can use strength for to hit and damage, but they don't need to. You do realize this, yes?
You do realize that because they can put dots into Strength they don't NEED Dex for those things either right?
Never said they did, but nice strawman. But since "dots" is a limited resource it is more effective to pay for the ability that gives you three values instead of in practive paying double. Now, do you have anything relevant to add or just more strawmen?
I didn't strawman at all. You want to call it a strawman to attempt to invalidate what I am saying. But everything i said was the truth. The Three Value consideration only matters when you have reason to put all the weight on all three. There are several reasons not to. Of which I named a few of them. Which your ignoring and trying to say I straw manned when I didn't.
And just for the record. You did in fact say that they did NEED Dexterity farther up in the chain but did not NEED strength and listed to hit and Damage as reason why they needed it.