So I was in a discussion recently about the problems with Monks, and a thought occurred to me:
Why do Step of the Wind and Patient Defense need to cost Ki Points? I mean, everyone's already brought up how Rogues can basically do Step of the Wind for free with Cunning Action, plus Hide as well.
So what if Step of the Wind and Patient Defense just got lumped together into one ability that doesn't cost anything? Just as how Rogues can Dash, Disengage or Hide as a bonus action, Monks get to Dash, Disengage or Dodge as a bonus action.
I realize being able to Dodge as a bonus action at zero cost might sound busted on paper, but consider how Monks generally do not have a lot of hit points. They have the same hit die as Rogues, but can't wear armor OR use a shield so they're pretty much forced to choose between having a higher AC via their Dex/Wisdom scores OR more hit-points from the Constitution. So letting them just dodge as a bonus action feels like a nice trade-off that gives players a reason to be less worried about their HP and invest more ASIs into improving their AC.
And I think it's all pretty thematically appropriate for a monk? Like it just makes sense for Monks to be these combatants who don't have much health to work with but are also really hard to hit. Always dodging out of the way of attacks just in time.
It has been discussed in other threads as well, like this one, and some like myself think SotW would be fine for free. I think Dodge is probably too powerful to make free, but I could see proficiency bonus times per long rest free and then Ki points afterwards. But that might be a little much as well.
Others think that it would be too much since monks already have a vastly superior movement speed over rogues, so basically dashing as a bonus action for a monk could be further than a rogue dashing for both their action and bonus action. I really don't agree with that argument, but there it is. I'm sure I'm not making the case as well as others might.
Also, some suggest making PD a flat bonus to AC, like +2 so it can be used as a reaction (kind of like a mini shield spell) plus many other takes on these abilities.
With the "next evolution" coming in 2024 who knows where they will go with monks or other classes. They seem to like tying things to proficiency bonus times per day, so maybe something like this will happen. Plus it looks more and more like they are getting rid of class features that recharge on a short rest so the monks Ki point set up may change as well.
Others think that it would be too much since monks already have a vastly superior movement speed over rogues, so basically dashing as a bonus action for a monk could be further than a rogue dashing for both their action and bonus action. I really don't agree with that argument, but there it is. I'm sure I'm not making the case as well as others might.
I don't think Dash as a bonus action was the issue; for me the issue is whether it should still be free when you double dash, as the total speed is so high.
The thing to keep in mind is that a single dash from a Monk gives them basically the same speed as a double dashing Rogue at 2nd-level (80 feet for the single dashing Monk, 90 feet for a double dashing Rogue). So the Monk is already getting more out of that bonus action dash than the Rogue does, because they're moving basically as fast as the Rogue's maximum speed and still attacking (and they're faster than the Rogue is capable of from 6th-level). So this is why it's wrong to think along the lines of Cunning Action being free meaning that Step of the Wind should also be free.
Personally I'm still fine with a free bonus action single dash, as Monks don't have a huge damage output using only their action (or are already burning Ki to boost it), so there's still a trade off there of damage from Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows, which is the added cost to using your bonus action for something else as a Monk. But I think the double dash should probably still cost a Ki point, so that the Monk isn't able to sprint 180 feet per turn every turn indefinitely as 120 feet every turn is already huge (you're potentially outrunning an eldritch blast).
Free Disengage is fine, loss of damage or defence is already a high enough price for this.
Free Dodge is a no from me, dodging as a bonus action is already strong as over several rounds it's like a concentration free Blur, so I think it's fine as it is.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
The idea is that every action and bonus action (if one has the capacity) used to dash allows the player to add his base speed to his movement.
Clearly, if one uses the action and bonus action, one no longer has a way to attack (the reaction still remains, but it is no longer part of the player's turn).
So I was in a discussion recently about the problems with Monks, and a thought occurred to me:
Why do Step of the Wind and Patient Defense need to cost Ki Points? I mean, everyone's already brought up how Rogues can basically do Step of the Wind for free with Cunning Action, plus Hide as well.
...
I feel the same way, but instead of making them free, I thought of making them stronger, so that the use of a ki point was worth it.
After all, they are still capabilities of the ki feature, so a cost must be there.
Flurry of Blows. You can spend 1 ki power to make one more unarmed strikes on your turn. You can use this power only once per turn.
Defensive Stance. You can spend 1 ki point to take the Dodge action as a bonus action on your turn. While in your defensive stance, you can make opportunity attacks without using your reaction, and you can use your reaction to make a melee attack against a creature that moves more than 5 feet while within your reach.
Lightning Step. You can spend 1 ki point and as a bonus action you can teleport up to your movement into an unoccupied space that you can see. In such a case, you have advantage in the first melee attack made before the end of the turn.
I find that there is no synergy in these 3 techniques. So I tried to redesign them with a little more use.
I'm the kind of person who thinks the best defense is offense, and if the risk is too great, just don't be in the front row when it's the enemy's turn. When I played as a monk, I almost never used the ki techniques "Patient Defense" and "Step of the Wind". 1 because I would directly take the "Mobile" feat and 2 because I always thought they were a waste of ki resources.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So I was in a discussion recently about the problems with Monks, and a thought occurred to me:
Why do Step of the Wind and Patient Defense need to cost Ki Points? I mean, everyone's already brought up how Rogues can basically do Step of the Wind for free with Cunning Action, plus Hide as well.
So what if Step of the Wind and Patient Defense just got lumped together into one ability that doesn't cost anything? Just as how Rogues can Dash, Disengage or Hide as a bonus action, Monks get to Dash, Disengage or Dodge as a bonus action.
I realize being able to Dodge as a bonus action at zero cost might sound busted on paper, but consider how Monks generally do not have a lot of hit points. They have the same hit die as Rogues, but can't wear armor OR use a shield so they're pretty much forced to choose between having a higher AC via their Dex/Wisdom scores OR more hit-points from the Constitution. So letting them just dodge as a bonus action feels like a nice trade-off that gives players a reason to be less worried about their HP and invest more ASIs into improving their AC.
And I think it's all pretty thematically appropriate for a monk? Like it just makes sense for Monks to be these combatants who don't have much health to work with but are also really hard to hit. Always dodging out of the way of attacks just in time.
Not for free, it will cost the monks BA for that round. I’d might even suggest that the monk could take Dodge as a Reaction.
It has been discussed in other threads as well, like this one, and some like myself think SotW would be fine for free. I think Dodge is probably too powerful to make free, but I could see proficiency bonus times per long rest free and then Ki points afterwards. But that might be a little much as well.
Others think that it would be too much since monks already have a vastly superior movement speed over rogues, so basically dashing as a bonus action for a monk could be further than a rogue dashing for both their action and bonus action. I really don't agree with that argument, but there it is. I'm sure I'm not making the case as well as others might.
Also, some suggest making PD a flat bonus to AC, like +2 so it can be used as a reaction (kind of like a mini shield spell) plus many other takes on these abilities.
With the "next evolution" coming in 2024 who knows where they will go with monks or other classes. They seem to like tying things to proficiency bonus times per day, so maybe something like this will happen. Plus it looks more and more like they are getting rid of class features that recharge on a short rest so the monks Ki point set up may change as well.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I don't think Dash as a bonus action was the issue; for me the issue is whether it should still be free when you double dash, as the total speed is so high.
The thing to keep in mind is that a single dash from a Monk gives them basically the same speed as a double dashing Rogue at 2nd-level (80 feet for the single dashing Monk, 90 feet for a double dashing Rogue). So the Monk is already getting more out of that bonus action dash than the Rogue does, because they're moving basically as fast as the Rogue's maximum speed and still attacking (and they're faster than the Rogue is capable of from 6th-level). So this is why it's wrong to think along the lines of Cunning Action being free meaning that Step of the Wind should also be free.
Personally I'm still fine with a free bonus action single dash, as Monks don't have a huge damage output using only their action (or are already burning Ki to boost it), so there's still a trade off there of damage from Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows, which is the added cost to using your bonus action for something else as a Monk. But I think the double dash should probably still cost a Ki point, so that the Monk isn't able to sprint 180 feet per turn every turn indefinitely as 120 feet every turn is already huge (you're potentially outrunning an eldritch blast).
Free Disengage is fine, loss of damage or defence is already a high enough price for this.
Free Dodge is a no from me, dodging as a bonus action is already strong as over several rounds it's like a concentration free Blur, so I think it's fine as it is.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I am totally against this concept, because it would make the rogues/ monks Tabaxi lightning bolts.
According to my point of view, you cannot enhance an ability with a similar power twice the same turn.
But according to Sage Advice you can.
The idea is that every action and bonus action (if one has the capacity) used to dash allows the player to add his base speed to his movement.
Clearly, if one uses the action and bonus action, one no longer has a way to attack (the reaction still remains, but it is no longer part of the player's turn).
I feel the same way, but instead of making them free, I thought of making them stronger, so that the use of a ki point was worth it.
After all, they are still capabilities of the ki feature, so a cost must be there.
Lightning Step. You can spend 1 ki point and as a bonus action you can teleport up to your movement into an unoccupied space that you can see. In such a case, you have advantage in the first melee attack made before the end of the turn.
I find that there is no synergy in these 3 techniques. So I tried to redesign them with a little more use.
https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/P_cVG3IK-7cM (This is a link of the core class monk that I am redesigning.)
I'm the kind of person who thinks the best defense is offense, and if the risk is too great, just don't be in the front row when it's the enemy's turn. When I played as a monk, I almost never used the ki techniques "Patient Defense" and "Step of the Wind". 1 because I would directly take the "Mobile" feat and 2 because I always thought they were a waste of ki resources.