I've wanted to play a Paladin/Monk, unarmored, finesse sword using, swashbuckling, Knight, for some time.
Some thoughts I have to that end:
None of the Monk subclasses really stand out as great for this concept, nor do any Oaths, at least not thematically.
Mechanically, I think Drunken Master and Ancients or Vengeance would be a good fit. Possibly Pacifist Paladin. Either way, both subclasses would be reflavored to varying degrees as simply the way your order fights, and/or what you learned outside of being a Knight/musketeer/whatever one ends up calling it.
The only houserules I really think would really add to this, rather than just being mechanical cheese to make it work smoother, are expanding the avialable Fighting Styles (especially to include Mariner), and ditching the stat requirements for multiclassing, because I always do anyway, in my games, as does my whole group/every other DM i ever play with.
As much as I'd like a Rapier for this concept, giving Monks Rapiers as Monk Weapons is probably a bit much, and Shortswords are fine.
Drunken Master works really well as simply a very mobile, slippery, agile fighter. Being able to punch, kick, headbut, or knee someone as part of swordfighting is great, also being very hard to pin down? Awesome!
The Paladin grounds the concept in that Knightly vibe, and grants stuff like Smite "[divine being of choice] guide my hand" and Divine Sense "Wait, this place stinks of the unnatural. Give me a moment.", as well as that Aramis theme of being an aspiring priest, who prays that his faith and his loyalty to king and country never come into conflict.
Questions:
Any spells that stand out as especially good for this?
Is there any reason to attack with Str, other than if we are considering Kensai?
What races will make this easier to pull off? I know we need both bonuses to be in relevant stats, unlike most characters.
How much can we get away with lowish Wis or Cha? How about Con?
Should a DM that doesn't really mind houserules or homebrew as long as they are balanced allow casting Pally spells with Wis, or using Cha for unarmored defense, or do we think the build will work fine without such a ruling?
Am I the only one that finds this idea interesting?
So one thing is that if none of the oaths or monk paths stand out to you as working well for this, then why restrict yourself to those classes? The more intuitive way to do this would be a fighter/swashbuckler multiclass with a rapier, you wear studded armor for a goal of 18ish AC eventually, boosted to 20 AC by means of a shield, take the knight background from the player's handbook for the on-the-nose flavor + a retainer to treat you as a knight, go battlemaster for your fighter levels (though, do you even need level 3? Fighter 2/rogue 18 sounds like a good plan for capitalizing by picking up a fighting style like dueling and shield proficiency, the only reason to go further in fighter is shenanigans with maunevers + sneak attack (superiority dice + advantage + sneak attack dice sounds toasty for your damage)
The specific subclasses may not stand out, but the classes have their own flavor, which is the point. Your suggested build is entirely mundane, and the point of the thread is to build a Paladin/Monk, an inherently supernatural concept.
Ok, so...each class has its own flavor. While I'm all for reflavoring things, Paladin/Monk is both a mechanical and thematic designation.
I would genuinely not get any responses at all than get, "your whole concept is doing it wrong, do this entirely other thing, instead."
But your concept IS wrong. There's nothing about paladin or monk thematically that lends to the idea of a musketeer. I mean, kinda for paladin, but absolutely not for monk..
But I'll try, even though you seem kind of jerkish from your last response.
Devotion Paladin is pretty much the only choice, because the Musketeers were sworn (aka Devoted) to protecting the crown. Fighting style would be Dueling to give you that bonus for fighting 1h.
As for monk, I'd say Way of the Open Hand would probably best emulate the flourishes that would happen during swashbuckling-style sword fighting without adding in another element that doesn't lend to the archetype musketeer (aka Drunken Master). As for headbutts, elbows, knees, etc... that's already a core component to monk anyway and isn't exclusive to the Drunken Master.
Now to answer your questions more in depth:
Spells: Not really much besides Compelled Duel to imitate the taunting and proclivity for one-on-one dueling.
Strength: the monks attacks don't require you to use dexterity, and the typical musketeer wore armor, if even light. So you could make it a strength based monk and still have the same effect wearing light to medium armor and using strength to attack (unless the no-armor is a deal breaker for you)
Race: this just screams human or half-elf to me (probably half-elf)
Low Con/Wis/Cha: if you go the armored route, Wisdom could easily be a "dump" stat. As for Charisma, I think you'd want that decently high just for role playing purposes of the character (almost all swashbucklers including the Three Musketeers are wildly charismatic and bold and have forceful personalities). For lower Constitution, you're getting away from the idea of a knight at this point, since they are almost always hearty and healthy. Mechanically, the Wis vs Cha depends on your selection of subclasses, because some require more saving throws than others. Which leads into my next point.
Wis/Cha swapping: now you're starting to get into a dangerous game, where increasing one stat is a more viable option than anything else. For example: Charisma to AC means that now your Charisma affects AC AND saving throws (at Paladin level 6). You don't really have the same issue with Wisdom unless you also change the other paladin abilities (other than spell save DCs) from Cha to Wis.
Or you could just go Sword Bard/Open Hand Monk or Battle Master Fighter/Open Hand Monk and go with the Noble (Knight) or Acolyte background and not have to homebrew anything, assuming that you NEED to have monk, as this is in the monk forum (personally I'd go Sword Bard/Battle Master Fighter to accomplish this)
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I'm strongly inclined to ignore anything that starts with telling any person that their character concept is "wrong", because that is entirely absurd.
The fact that you think that there is nothing about the monk lends itself to a supernatural musketeer, as described in the OP, is off topic, and the post borders on thread crapping.
However, since you then go on to actually provide some ideas before going back to trying to tell me that my basic concept is wrong, I'll respond to your ideas.
I'd love to continue the discussion, if you can refrain from that behavior in future posts.
Re: Devotion Paladin. I would almost certainly make Athos a Vengeance Paladin, and Porth possibly the same. D'Artagnon and Aramis, sure, probably devoted, although some of the UA Oaths are worth considering, thematically and mechanically.
Nearly all Paladins are sworn to something or someone, and could thus be called "devoted". The Oath of Devotion represents, IMO, a Paladin whose entire thing is Devotion, above and beyond anything else. For the actual Dumas Musketeers, I would actually put Oath of The Crown right up there with Devotion, if not higher, in general.
Stats: There is certainly room for a strength build, here, but since the concept in unarmored, and the houserule exists to ignore stat reqs for MCing, I see no strong reason to go with it.
Fighting Style: That's a good point regarding Dueling, but the damage bonus isn't a huge deal, IMO. Mariner gets +1 AC, and a swim and climb speed, making up for the main drawbacks for a low str swashbuckler, which in turn leaves more room for Dex/Wis/Con/Cha to not be low.
Back to stats, here is a breakdown of what I could have as a half-elf, which is a top contender for the race. Optional stat boosts go into Wis and Dex.
Str: 10
Dex: 15
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 14
I could start with one or two tweaked up and down a little, but that is pretty much where I'd want it. Race selection would depend on setting. In one of my worlds, this character could be nearly any race, with dwarf and gnome being more likely than most. In Eberron, Half-elf fits perfectly in some ways, but less so in others. A tragic Cyran whose "France" has been destroyed would be interesting, and could be any race whose homeland was once part of Galifar, really. Or a child of immigrants who grew up loving Cyre in that context, and has been robbed of a homeland just as his family made it their home.
A dwarf sounds very fun, actually.
Monk archetypes: Open Hand makes sense, as does Kensai, probably. Drunken Master works mechanically, and I see monk archetypes as essentially schools of fighting more than something thematically important to the character. My point about punching, kicking, and headbutting was not meant to suggest that Drunken Master was especially good at those, btw. The format of the sentence should show that I was sayng that while that element is awesome, the added element that Drunken Master brings of being very hard to pin down, and using trickery and skill to use the enemy's movements against them, is also really cool.
Spells: After some review, there are some buff spells that make sense, especially those that can help one's allies, as well as any spell that can be flavored as being divinely inspired to exceed one's normal physical limitations. Also, intimidation and charm related stuff fits. I'll keep reviewing to get a specific set of spells if I do decide to make a replacement "extra spells" list. Compel Duel certainly makes sense.
And again, Sword Bard and Battlemaster Fighter would be complete rewrites of their flavor to fit this concept. I don't see how that isn't 100 percent clear from the OP. Not trying to be a jerk, but that suggestion is so far from the "brief" of the OP, I'm a bit frustrated that you would come into the thread and insist on trying to tell me that the brief itself is "wrong", and offer a suggestion that is, in essence, "do something completely different, instead". That is, AFAIC, thread crapping.
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Like it says on the tin.
I've wanted to play a Paladin/Monk, unarmored, finesse sword using, swashbuckling, Knight, for some time.
Some thoughts I have to that end:
None of the Monk subclasses really stand out as great for this concept, nor do any Oaths, at least not thematically.
Mechanically, I think Drunken Master and Ancients or Vengeance would be a good fit. Possibly Pacifist Paladin. Either way, both subclasses would be reflavored to varying degrees as simply the way your order fights, and/or what you learned outside of being a Knight/musketeer/whatever one ends up calling it.
The only houserules I really think would really add to this, rather than just being mechanical cheese to make it work smoother, are expanding the avialable Fighting Styles (especially to include Mariner), and ditching the stat requirements for multiclassing, because I always do anyway, in my games, as does my whole group/every other DM i ever play with.
As much as I'd like a Rapier for this concept, giving Monks Rapiers as Monk Weapons is probably a bit much, and Shortswords are fine.
Drunken Master works really well as simply a very mobile, slippery, agile fighter. Being able to punch, kick, headbut, or knee someone as part of swordfighting is great, also being very hard to pin down? Awesome!
The Paladin grounds the concept in that Knightly vibe, and grants stuff like Smite "[divine being of choice] guide my hand" and Divine Sense "Wait, this place stinks of the unnatural. Give me a moment.", as well as that Aramis theme of being an aspiring priest, who prays that his faith and his loyalty to king and country never come into conflict.
Questions:
Am I the only one that finds this idea interesting?
We do bones, motherf***ker!
So one thing is that if none of the oaths or monk paths stand out to you as working well for this, then why restrict yourself to those classes? The more intuitive way to do this would be a fighter/swashbuckler multiclass with a rapier, you wear studded armor for a goal of 18ish AC eventually, boosted to 20 AC by means of a shield, take the knight background from the player's handbook for the on-the-nose flavor + a retainer to treat you as a knight, go battlemaster for your fighter levels (though, do you even need level 3? Fighter 2/rogue 18 sounds like a good plan for capitalizing by picking up a fighting style like dueling and shield proficiency, the only reason to go further in fighter is shenanigans with maunevers + sneak attack (superiority dice + advantage + sneak attack dice sounds toasty for your damage)
The specific subclasses may not stand out, but the classes have their own flavor, which is the point. Your suggested build is entirely mundane, and the point of the thread is to build a Paladin/Monk, an inherently supernatural concept.
We do bones, motherf***ker!
A paladin/monk is a mehanical designation, it isn't a concept, it's a way of building a concept imo.
Dear lord.
Ok, so...each class has its own flavor. While I'm all for reflavoring things, Paladin/Monk is both a mechanical and thematic designation.
I would genuinely not get any responses at all than get, "your whole concept is doing it wrong, do this entirely other thing, instead."
We do bones, motherf***ker!
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I'm strongly inclined to ignore anything that starts with telling any person that their character concept is "wrong", because that is entirely absurd.
The fact that you think that there is nothing about the monk lends itself to a supernatural musketeer, as described in the OP, is off topic, and the post borders on thread crapping.
However, since you then go on to actually provide some ideas before going back to trying to tell me that my basic concept is wrong, I'll respond to your ideas.
I'd love to continue the discussion, if you can refrain from that behavior in future posts.
Re: Devotion Paladin. I would almost certainly make Athos a Vengeance Paladin, and Porth possibly the same. D'Artagnon and Aramis, sure, probably devoted, although some of the UA Oaths are worth considering, thematically and mechanically.
Nearly all Paladins are sworn to something or someone, and could thus be called "devoted". The Oath of Devotion represents, IMO, a Paladin whose entire thing is Devotion, above and beyond anything else. For the actual Dumas Musketeers, I would actually put Oath of The Crown right up there with Devotion, if not higher, in general.
Stats: There is certainly room for a strength build, here, but since the concept in unarmored, and the houserule exists to ignore stat reqs for MCing, I see no strong reason to go with it.
Fighting Style: That's a good point regarding Dueling, but the damage bonus isn't a huge deal, IMO. Mariner gets +1 AC, and a swim and climb speed, making up for the main drawbacks for a low str swashbuckler, which in turn leaves more room for Dex/Wis/Con/Cha to not be low.
Back to stats, here is a breakdown of what I could have as a half-elf, which is a top contender for the race. Optional stat boosts go into Wis and Dex.
I could start with one or two tweaked up and down a little, but that is pretty much where I'd want it. Race selection would depend on setting. In one of my worlds, this character could be nearly any race, with dwarf and gnome being more likely than most. In Eberron, Half-elf fits perfectly in some ways, but less so in others. A tragic Cyran whose "France" has been destroyed would be interesting, and could be any race whose homeland was once part of Galifar, really. Or a child of immigrants who grew up loving Cyre in that context, and has been robbed of a homeland just as his family made it their home.
A dwarf sounds very fun, actually.
Monk archetypes: Open Hand makes sense, as does Kensai, probably. Drunken Master works mechanically, and I see monk archetypes as essentially schools of fighting more than something thematically important to the character. My point about punching, kicking, and headbutting was not meant to suggest that Drunken Master was especially good at those, btw. The format of the sentence should show that I was sayng that while that element is awesome, the added element that Drunken Master brings of being very hard to pin down, and using trickery and skill to use the enemy's movements against them, is also really cool.
Spells: After some review, there are some buff spells that make sense, especially those that can help one's allies, as well as any spell that can be flavored as being divinely inspired to exceed one's normal physical limitations. Also, intimidation and charm related stuff fits. I'll keep reviewing to get a specific set of spells if I do decide to make a replacement "extra spells" list. Compel Duel certainly makes sense.
And again, Sword Bard and Battlemaster Fighter would be complete rewrites of their flavor to fit this concept. I don't see how that isn't 100 percent clear from the OP. Not trying to be a jerk, but that suggestion is so far from the "brief" of the OP, I'm a bit frustrated that you would come into the thread and insist on trying to tell me that the brief itself is "wrong", and offer a suggestion that is, in essence, "do something completely different, instead". That is, AFAIC, thread crapping.
We do bones, motherf***ker!