I am fairly new at this but got to start somewhere, right? Maybe you all could give me a little advise on building this character.
My plan is to build a Vengeance Paladin that made his way from a clan known for their rageful Battleragers. So growing up in a clan that is honorbound yet fueled by rage, an event causes him on a path of honor and virtue whilst still struggling to keep his rage in check.
To do this RP wise I was planning to dip into a level 1 Barbarian (perhaps even to subclass Battlerager at level 3, not sure if that is needed) and the rest into the Vengeance Paladin as a GWF.
Are there any penalties as a Paladin wearing mail / plate vs the Barbarian not supposed to wearing heavy armor?
Another question pops into my mind, reading about the Dwarven God patheon, Haela Brightaxe seems to fit this character like a glove. However, I read that she was killed and a dead power at the moment. There are rumors her return but nothing I could find otherwise. How does that work in terms of channeling powers / spells? Or is that up to our table GM?
Any suggestions? Keep on this track? Or just level a Paladin and RP the rage component? Any other newbie tips for my Paladin?
You can not rage while wearing heavy armor (and you don't benefit from unarmoured defence.
You could wear medium armor as a paladin but that would make you rather mad.
I think an oath of vengence would mean a paladin would "go into a rage" whenever he fights his sworn enemies so I would go pure paladin just roleplay it.
Generally it is a good idea to stick to single classes until you get to know the rules well. It is very easy to make a character very ineffective multiclassing when you don't understand how things interact.
Actually, you can rage while wearing armor. The rage feature just says you don't benefit from the damage boost, damage resistence, and other benefits while wearing heavy armor. You could declare "I rage" while wearing armor, you just wouldn't get the goodies that come along with it. One way to work around this is the bear totem barbarian, that says "while raging, you resist all damage barring psychic damage." Since it makes no mention of armor, RAW, you resist all the damage while wearing heavy armor. You just don't get advantage on STR checks, or the damage.
Anyways, a paladin/barbarian multiclass has a couple issues, namely that paladin requires you have a 13 in STR and CHA, but barbarian would also like you to have relativley high DEX. Of course, you also want high CON for both paladin and barbarian. You could dump DEX, as most paladins are apt to do, but you'd have a crappy unarmored defense.
Still, here's how I'd make it work
Starting paladin, I'd take it all the way to lvl 6 to unlock your aura of protection. If you don't care about the aura (which is a valid take), you can just stop at lvl 5. Along the way, I'd take GWF fighting style at lvl 2, and GWM feat at lvl 4.
Then I'd go into 3 levels of barbarian, bear totem to work around the armor penalty. With that, you could make use of rage no matter what you're wearing, and that also means you can attack recklessly without much concern. If you're married to the concept of a battlerager, then go for it. Won't be as good as bear totem, but sometimes story and character concept are more important for fun, and that's valid.
Sorry I was sloppy in my wording in that you can rage while wearing heavy armor it just has no effect. Good catch by cgarciao regarding bear totems.
The problem with that is the character concept is someone from a rageful clan who takes the oath of a Paladin. That strikes me that any rage they have comes right at the start, and that build is level 6 or 7 before it gets rage and 2 levels later before it has any mechanical benefits.
You don't need high dex if you are going heavy armor, you would need 18 Dex for your AC to be better than standard plate (and things like whether you get magic armor or bracers of defence is up to the DM so difficult to compare). Many pure barbs ignore unarmoured defence and go with medium armor to avoid Madness and you have to build in charisma as well.
Resistance to virtually all damage is nice but taking three levels of barb really pushes back your paladin progression you will miss out on an ASI which Paladins really need given they want high Str, Con and Cha. A level 9 paladin has 3rd levels spells /smites (and more spell slots overall).
If your want to be a raging tank able to resist huge amounts of damage go bear totem barb. If you want to swear an oath of venge to destroy your enemies go paladin, don't try to merge the two together.
Something you might be able to do is work with you DM to create a custom background that fits with being from a clan of battle ragers, I feel this is much more a background thing rather than class features which is mor ethe things you pick up as an adventurer
Actually, you can rage while wearing armor. The rage feature just says you don't benefit from the damage boost, damage resistence, and other benefits while wearing heavy armor. You could declare "I rage" while wearing armor, you just wouldn't get the goodies that come along with it. One way to work around this is the bear totem barbarian, that says "while raging, you resist all damage barring psychic damage." Since it makes no mention of armor, RAW, you resist all the damage while wearing heavy armor. You just don't get advantage on STR checks, or the damage.
Anyways, a paladin/barbarian multiclass has a couple issues, namely that paladin requires you have a 13 in STR and CHA, but barbarian would also like you to have relativley high DEX. Of course, you also want high CON for both paladin and barbarian. You could dump DEX, as most paladins are apt to do, but you'd have a crappy unarmored defense.
Still, here's how I'd make it work
Starting paladin, I'd take it all the way to lvl 6 to unlock your aura of protection. If you don't care about the aura (which is a valid take), you can just stop at lvl 5. Along the way, I'd take GWF fighting style at lvl 2, and GWM feat at lvl 4.
Then I'd go into 3 levels of barbarian, bear totem to work around the armor penalty. With that, you could make use of rage no matter what you're wearing, and that also means you can attack recklessly without much concern. If you're married to the concept of a battlerager, then go for it. Won't be as good as bear totem, but sometimes story and character concept are more important for fun, and that's valid.
This doesn't work RAI. Rage and heavy armor don't play nice together. You can rage in heavy armor, you just gain none of the benefits from the rage.
"The 3rd-level totem features rely on Rage and therefore don't work with heavy armor. The 6th-level features don't rely on Rage." - Jeremy Crawford
"Rage. RAW: you can activate it in heavy armor and get nothing from the Rage feature. RAI: Rage and heavy armor don't mix." - Jeremy Crawford
Crawford's tweets up to 1-30-2019 are considered "official" rulings and part of the Sage Advice. These tweets are from 2016, so a part of the official rulings/clarifications.
"Official rulings on how to interpret unclear rules are made in Sage Advice. The public statements of the D&D team, or anyone else at Wizards of the Coast, are not official rulings; they are advice. One exception: the game’s rules manager, Jeremy Crawford (@JeremyECrawford), can make official rulings and usually does so in Sage Advice and on Twitter."
the one document that does matter is the sage advice compendium, and there's no mention of rage not allowing bear totem. JC even tweets "A barbarian in heavy armor can benefit from a totem feature if the feature doesn't prohibit such armor or doesn't rely on Rage." Since bear's resistence does not mention armor, it's something we can benefit from.
the one document that does matter is the sage advice compendium, and there's no mention of rage not allowing bear totem. JC even tweets "A barbarian in heavy armor can benefit from a totem feature if the feature doesn't prohibit such armor or doesn't rely on Rage." Since bear's resistence does not mention armor, it's something we can benefit from.
"A barbarian in heavy armor can benefit from a totem feature if the feature doesn't prohibit such armor or doesn't rely on Rage." - Jeremy Crawford, lead designer DnD 5e
I don't think it says what you think it says. It isn't backing you up.
Hi guys and gals,
I am fairly new at this but got to start somewhere, right? Maybe you all could give me a little advise on building this character.
My plan is to build a Vengeance Paladin that made his way from a clan known for their rageful Battleragers. So growing up in a clan that is honorbound yet fueled by rage, an event causes him on a path of honor and virtue whilst still struggling to keep his rage in check.
To do this RP wise I was planning to dip into a level 1 Barbarian (perhaps even to subclass Battlerager at level 3, not sure if that is needed) and the rest into the Vengeance Paladin as a GWF.
Are there any penalties as a Paladin wearing mail / plate vs the Barbarian not supposed to wearing heavy armor?
Another question pops into my mind, reading about the Dwarven God patheon, Haela Brightaxe seems to fit this character like a glove. However, I read that she was killed and a dead power at the moment. There are rumors her return but nothing I could find otherwise. How does that work in terms of channeling powers / spells? Or is that up to our table GM?
Any suggestions? Keep on this track? Or just level a Paladin and RP the rage component? Any other newbie tips for my Paladin?
- Lath
You can not rage while wearing heavy armor (and you don't benefit from unarmoured defence.
You could wear medium armor as a paladin but that would make you rather mad.
I think an oath of vengence would mean a paladin would "go into a rage" whenever he fights his sworn enemies so I would go pure paladin just roleplay it.
Generally it is a good idea to stick to single classes until you get to know the rules well. It is very easy to make a character very ineffective multiclassing when you don't understand how things interact.
Actually, you can rage while wearing armor. The rage feature just says you don't benefit from the damage boost, damage resistence, and other benefits while wearing heavy armor. You could declare "I rage" while wearing armor, you just wouldn't get the goodies that come along with it. One way to work around this is the bear totem barbarian, that says "while raging, you resist all damage barring psychic damage." Since it makes no mention of armor, RAW, you resist all the damage while wearing heavy armor. You just don't get advantage on STR checks, or the damage.
Anyways, a paladin/barbarian multiclass has a couple issues, namely that paladin requires you have a 13 in STR and CHA, but barbarian would also like you to have relativley high DEX. Of course, you also want high CON for both paladin and barbarian. You could dump DEX, as most paladins are apt to do, but you'd have a crappy unarmored defense.
Still, here's how I'd make it work
Starting paladin, I'd take it all the way to lvl 6 to unlock your aura of protection. If you don't care about the aura (which is a valid take), you can just stop at lvl 5. Along the way, I'd take GWF fighting style at lvl 2, and GWM feat at lvl 4.
Then I'd go into 3 levels of barbarian, bear totem to work around the armor penalty. With that, you could make use of rage no matter what you're wearing, and that also means you can attack recklessly without much concern. If you're married to the concept of a battlerager, then go for it. Won't be as good as bear totem, but sometimes story and character concept are more important for fun, and that's valid.
Sorry I was sloppy in my wording in that you can rage while wearing heavy armor it just has no effect. Good catch by cgarciao regarding bear totems.
The problem with that is the character concept is someone from a rageful clan who takes the oath of a Paladin. That strikes me that any rage they have comes right at the start, and that build is level 6 or 7 before it gets rage and 2 levels later before it has any mechanical benefits.
You don't need high dex if you are going heavy armor, you would need 18 Dex for your AC to be better than standard plate (and things like whether you get magic armor or bracers of defence is up to the DM so difficult to compare). Many pure barbs ignore unarmoured defence and go with medium armor to avoid Madness and you have to build in charisma as well.
Resistance to virtually all damage is nice but taking three levels of barb really pushes back your paladin progression you will miss out on an ASI which Paladins really need given they want high Str, Con and Cha. A level 9 paladin has 3rd levels spells /smites (and more spell slots overall).
If your want to be a raging tank able to resist huge amounts of damage go bear totem barb. If you want to swear an oath of venge to destroy your enemies go paladin, don't try to merge the two together.
Something you might be able to do is work with you DM to create a custom background that fits with being from a clan of battle ragers, I feel this is much more a background thing rather than class features which is mor ethe things you pick up as an adventurer
This doesn't work RAI. Rage and heavy armor don't play nice together. You can rage in heavy armor, you just gain none of the benefits from the rage.
"The 3rd-level totem features rely on Rage and therefore don't work with heavy armor. The 6th-level features don't rely on Rage." - Jeremy Crawford
"Rage. RAW: you can activate it in heavy armor and get nothing from the Rage feature. RAI: Rage and heavy armor don't mix." - Jeremy Crawford
Crawford's tweets up to 1-30-2019 are considered "official" rulings and part of the Sage Advice. These tweets are from 2016, so a part of the official rulings/clarifications.
"Official rulings on how to interpret unclear rules are made in Sage Advice. The public statements of the D&D team, or anyone else at Wizards of the Coast, are not official rulings; they are advice. One exception: the game’s rules manager, Jeremy Crawford (@JeremyECrawford), can make official rulings and usually does so in Sage Advice and on Twitter."
Can you be wearing heavy armor and still benefit from the Barbarian totem benefits? (sageadvice.eu)
the one document that does matter is the sage advice compendium, and there's no mention of rage not allowing bear totem. JC even tweets "A barbarian in heavy armor can benefit from a totem feature if the feature doesn't prohibit such armor or doesn't rely on Rage." Since bear's resistence does not mention armor, it's something we can benefit from.
"A barbarian in heavy armor can benefit from a totem feature if the feature doesn't prohibit such armor or doesn't rely on Rage." - Jeremy Crawford, lead designer DnD 5e
I don't think it says what you think it says. It isn't backing you up.
Hi all,
Thanks so much for the ideas and insights.
Really appreciate it.
- Lath