Pretty new player here, only real experience I've had was a pretty casual/short where i played a sorcerer and we probably met 4 times before the group fell apart. However, I love looking at classes and thinking about potential combos and now my friend is saying he wants to start up a campaign again. I've been thinking about trying a paladin this time, and have had some interesting thoughts about multi-classing with echo knight, particularly about one potentially cool nova combo thing. Really, I'm looking for confirmation about whether this combo will even work as I have so little experience and could definitely have missed something or misunderstood a rule.
Alright here it is. Essentially you utilize the echo knights ability 'Unleash Incarnation" along with extra attack and action surge to potentially pop off 6 weapon attacks along with 6 divine smites in one turn. This would pretty much peak at level 8 (5 pal 3 echoknight) and burns almost all of your significant resources but if i got it right it would mean dealing average of 120 dmg in a single turn at level 8.
Assuming using dueling along with a longsword and having +3 str mod and +3 char mod it would look like:
Action 1: 3 weapon attacks (one from echo dude) at 1d8 + 2 + 3, 2 divine smites for 3d8 using your level 2 spell slots and one more divine smite 2d8.
Action Surge Action: 3 more weapon attacks, 3 more divine smites for 2d8 each.
So overall 20d8 and flat bonus of 30. After some maths avg damage would be 120, without any spell buffs like sacred weapon or curse type things on the target. As another note, you could use pole-arm master to squeeze out another weapon attack/smite combo providing you have at least level 6 in paladin to have enough spell slots.
So yes. That is my plan. I know its honestly not a great strat bc at lvl 8 it burns all your spell slots, echo attacks, and action surge until you can long rest but im just thinking it could be fun to surprise my dm friend with a sudden 120ish burst on a boss or something like that. Also, just the idea of a tanky paladin that can teleport around with the echo sounds pretty fun in and of itself.
Thoughts? Ways to make better? Do all the abilities check out and work how I'm intending to use them? Is 120 even that big of a burst at level 8? Any answers to those questions would be appreciated.
Other note, for this build going higher in paladin doesn't seem to offer that much benefit to how i would play so i was thinking i might even take sorcerer to 10 to get more spell slots after getting 6 in paladin for the saving throw aura.
This seems to work to me and having a big burst is always helpful, and they are both fun classes. Getting to level 8 can take a long ‘ol while though so make sure you choose the class levels in an order you can enjoy... probably Paladin 1-5 first... Which Oath are you swearing?
This is a horribly inefficient way to get three attacks and action surge. in comparison to other ways and here is why. You're echo has 1 hp an AC at most at lvl 20 of 20and has to be in 30 ft of you. You can only do this as many times as your con modifier. Any AOE Spell and that thing is gone.
Any GWM Paladin/Fighter can do mainly the same thing. You dont really gain very many benefits and any pure Paladin will outperform you and what they can do at this lvl. They may not deal the one turn nova damage as this but they will have higher saves; be immune to charm, resistant to spell damage, etc.; and have another ASI.
In this case as a Paladin as I build them I would have a higher con save and more health then you with 2 ASI. Also while a pure Paladin is using 1/3 the damage dice hes dealing more than 1/3 the damage.
There are many thing about this multiclass that are just inefficent. Rules wise it works but that's as far as I'd give it.
However, it occupies its space like a creature, and has AC and hit-points with no stat-block like an object, so it's also kind of both, just to be annoying. 😝
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Explaining my perspective up front. My GM tends to run extremely long encounters. In one adventure we entered a temple, and exited 5 real life months later, dozens of fights against undead, four boss lich fights, all with no long rests at all. For my group, sustainability is king.
I would never dump that many resources into one monster unless it was going to kill us all next turn. If your GM allows you to long rest after every battle, knock yourself out.
Feel like if you want nova dmg like that it'd be easier to go 5 lvls Barbarian and 3 lvls Echo Knight with GWM. Rage, Reckless Attack, GWM, 6x attacks, that'll do good dmg. (you could take Zealot to grab a little extra dmg on your first attack as well).
My suggestion would also be to take Bugbear from MotM, and for your Fighting Style take Superior Technique and Ambush. That way, you get a 1d6 added to your initiative roll, helping to ensure you start before enemies, then you do your 6x attacks and you get the Bugbear 2d6 added to each attack.
With that build, if you hit only 4 of the 6 attacks (using GWM every attack) you'd average 125.5dmg, if you hit 5 out of 6 attacks, thats 155.5 dmg. Might be tough to hit 5 out of 6 times with GWM even with advantage on every attack but you never know.
Pretty new player here, only real experience I've had was a pretty casual/short where i played a sorcerer and we probably met 4 times before the group fell apart. However, I love looking at classes and thinking about potential combos and now my friend is saying he wants to start up a campaign again. I've been thinking about trying a paladin this time, and have had some interesting thoughts about multi-classing with echo knight, particularly about one potentially cool nova combo thing. Really, I'm looking for confirmation about whether this combo will even work as I have so little experience and could definitely have missed something or misunderstood a rule.
Alright here it is. Essentially you utilize the echo knights ability 'Unleash Incarnation" along with extra attack and action surge to potentially pop off 6 weapon attacks along with 6 divine smites in one turn. This would pretty much peak at level 8 (5 pal 3 echoknight) and burns almost all of your significant resources but if i got it right it would mean dealing average of 120 dmg in a single turn at level 8.
Assuming using dueling along with a longsword and having +3 str mod and +3 char mod it would look like:
Action 1: 3 weapon attacks (one from echo dude) at 1d8 + 2 + 3, 2 divine smites for 3d8 using your level 2 spell slots and one more divine smite 2d8.
Action Surge Action: 3 more weapon attacks, 3 more divine smites for 2d8 each.
So overall 20d8 and flat bonus of 30. After some maths avg damage would be 120, without any spell buffs like sacred weapon or curse type things on the target. As another note, you could use pole-arm master to squeeze out another weapon attack/smite combo providing you have at least level 6 in paladin to have enough spell slots.
So yes. That is my plan. I know its honestly not a great strat bc at lvl 8 it burns all your spell slots, echo attacks, and action surge until you can long rest but im just thinking it could be fun to surprise my dm friend with a sudden 120ish burst on a boss or something like that. Also, just the idea of a tanky paladin that can teleport around with the echo sounds pretty fun in and of itself.
Thoughts? Ways to make better? Do all the abilities check out and work how I'm intending to use them? Is 120 even that big of a burst at level 8? Any answers to those questions would be appreciated.
Other note, for this build going higher in paladin doesn't seem to offer that much benefit to how i would play so i was thinking i might even take sorcerer to 10 to get more spell slots after getting 6 in paladin for the saving throw aura.
This seems to work to me and having a big burst is always helpful, and they are both fun classes. Getting to level 8 can take a long ‘ol while though so make sure you choose the class levels in an order you can enjoy... probably Paladin 1-5 first... Which Oath are you swearing?
Also 100+ damage is helpful at any level.
Several things here even though it works.
This is a horribly inefficient way to get three attacks and action surge. in comparison to other ways and here is why. You're echo has 1 hp an AC at most at lvl 20 of 20and has to be in 30 ft of you. You can only do this as many times as your con modifier. Any AOE Spell and that thing is gone.
Any GWM Paladin/Fighter can do mainly the same thing. You dont really gain very many benefits and any pure Paladin will outperform you and what they can do at this lvl. They may not deal the one turn nova damage as this but they will have higher saves; be immune to charm, resistant to spell damage, etc.; and have another ASI.
In this case as a Paladin as I build them I would have a higher con save and more health then you with 2 ASI. Also while a pure Paladin is using 1/3 the damage dice hes dealing more than 1/3 the damage.
There are many thing about this multiclass that are just inefficent. Rules wise it works but that's as far as I'd give it.
Incorrect. Unless an AoE spells specifies that it hits an object, it does not target the Echo, because the Echo is an object, not a creature.
Where is this information coming from. There is nothing in the subclass about the echo being an object and not a creature.
It's actually neither:
However, it occupies its space like a creature, and has AC and hit-points with no stat-block like an object, so it's also kind of both, just to be annoying. 😝
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Explaining my perspective up front. My GM tends to run extremely long encounters. In one adventure we entered a temple, and exited 5 real life months later, dozens of fights against undead, four boss lich fights, all with no long rests at all. For my group, sustainability is king.
I would never dump that many resources into one monster unless it was going to kill us all next turn. If your GM allows you to long rest after every battle, knock yourself out.
Feel like if you want nova dmg like that it'd be easier to go 5 lvls Barbarian and 3 lvls Echo Knight with GWM. Rage, Reckless Attack, GWM, 6x attacks, that'll do good dmg. (you could take Zealot to grab a little extra dmg on your first attack as well).
My suggestion would also be to take Bugbear from MotM, and for your Fighting Style take Superior Technique and Ambush. That way, you get a 1d6 added to your initiative roll, helping to ensure you start before enemies, then you do your 6x attacks and you get the Bugbear 2d6 added to each attack.
With that build, if you hit only 4 of the 6 attacks (using GWM every attack) you'd average 125.5dmg, if you hit 5 out of 6 attacks, thats 155.5 dmg. Might be tough to hit 5 out of 6 times with GWM even with advantage on every attack but you never know.