Rangers never could use a focus before tasha's But now that they can there is some weird interaction that has yet to be fixed.
For example: A ranger can now cast swift quiver with a focus. They no longer need a quiver with ammunition in it. The focus replaces the material requirement. This creates really problematic interaction that could only be fixed by getting the GFB,BB,or steel wind strike treatment of having a material component with a cost. There is an argument that the component is also a target of the spell, so the spell would do nothing but its still seems like the exact thing the referenced errata was trying to avoid. The same problem is created with Conjure volley and conjure barrage and cordon of arrows.
This especially gets interesting because you have to clearly define targets of the spell with things like Beastmaster share spells. Could a pet with hands Also get the free bonus action attacks if they have a ranged weapon?
What about since the material is by bassed could you now use different types of ammo than the spells call for? (Like sling bullets)
Look at flame arrows as a comparison you touch a quiver but there is no material component But at least the quiver is considered the sole target of the spell.
maybe I am just being nit picky but This stuff is why I encourage slow planned changes to classes rather than just dumping features on top of a existing Base.
Well, let's be clear here: a component of a spell need not be a target of the spell, even if the spell specifies both with similar language, unless the spell actually says so, as Booming Blade does. To give a well-known example, Message has a V component which is not the delivered message of the spell. Swift Quiver has never required the Ranger in question to target the same quiver as the M component of the spell.
You're nonetheless quite right about the new spells having the same language as the "fixed" spells in Tasha's, with no clear reason why they weren't "fixed" as well.
Most of these specify you have to start with nonmagical ammunition, all of which already have a material cost, per the PHB, as do most bows or quivers, so they’re still required and cannot be replaced by a focus.
Most of these specify you have to start with nonmagical ammunition, all of which already have a material cost, per the PHB, as do most bows or quivers, so they’re still required and cannot be replaced by a focus.
That looseness was not good enough for booming blade or other "new/errata'd spells". The ammunition should at least be listed as consumable in the components section that would also fix the problem.
Still, now that I look at my original post hours later it reads like a "sleep deprivation text" But i will leave it for posterity sake.
Specifying the gold cost of a weapon in the blade cantrips was more to prevent interaction with shadow blade and similar magic weapon spells. All of the ranger spells specify that you must use a nonmagical weapon or nonmagical ammunition, so they already alleviate the problem that the blade cantrips were running into (the only exception being swift quiver, but it's a different type of spell than the blade cantrips). The difference is that the blade cantrips can be used with magical weapons. You can't take your flame tongue dagger and use it with conjure barrage. Also, RAW bolts and arrows are considered consumable (and cordon of arrows already specifies that it destroys the arrows).
While they spells probably should have been tweaked to clarify this, ammunition, a quiver etc. are not an uncosted components, so replacing them with a focus isn't obviously possible.
Where it gets weird is that we likewise don't assume that the world is just full of free butter for casting grease, but it's also a commodity that doesn't have an explicit cost in the book, even though you'd probably have to pay a vendor something for it.
I can see both sides in that, but the fact that these are components with specific listed costs I'd say they're costed components even if the spell does not remind you of their cost. Some of these spells have always been a bit weird anyway; as quindraco says swift quiver never actually specified you had to touch the quiver you intend to use (though it's implied), conjure volley doesn't actually say it consumes the piece of ammunition even though it clearly should and so-on.
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Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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Rangers never could use a focus before tasha's But now that they can there is some weird interaction that has yet to be fixed.
For example: A ranger can now cast swift quiver with a focus. They no longer need a quiver with ammunition in it. The focus replaces the material requirement. This creates really problematic interaction that could only be fixed by getting the GFB,BB,or steel wind strike treatment of having a material component with a cost. There is an argument that the component is also a target of the spell, so the spell would do nothing but its still seems like the exact thing the referenced errata was trying to avoid. The same problem is created with Conjure volley and conjure barrage and cordon of arrows.
This especially gets interesting because you have to clearly define targets of the spell with things like Beastmaster share spells. Could a pet with hands Also get the free bonus action attacks if they have a ranged weapon?
What about since the material is by bassed could you now use different types of ammo than the spells call for? (Like sling bullets)
Look at flame arrows as a comparison you touch a quiver but there is no material component But at least the quiver is considered the sole target of the spell.
maybe I am just being nit picky but This stuff is why I encourage slow planned changes to classes rather than just dumping features on top of a existing Base.
Well, let's be clear here: a component of a spell need not be a target of the spell, even if the spell specifies both with similar language, unless the spell actually says so, as Booming Blade does. To give a well-known example, Message has a V component which is not the delivered message of the spell. Swift Quiver has never required the Ranger in question to target the same quiver as the M component of the spell.
You're nonetheless quite right about the new spells having the same language as the "fixed" spells in Tasha's, with no clear reason why they weren't "fixed" as well.
Most of these specify you have to start with nonmagical ammunition, all of which already have a material cost, per the PHB, as do most bows or quivers, so they’re still required and cannot be replaced by a focus.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
That looseness was not good enough for booming blade or other "new/errata'd spells". The ammunition should at least be listed as consumable in the components section that would also fix the problem.
Still, now that I look at my original post hours later it reads like a "sleep deprivation text" But i will leave it for posterity sake.
Specifying the gold cost of a weapon in the blade cantrips was more to prevent interaction with shadow blade and similar magic weapon spells. All of the ranger spells specify that you must use a nonmagical weapon or nonmagical ammunition, so they already alleviate the problem that the blade cantrips were running into (the only exception being swift quiver, but it's a different type of spell than the blade cantrips). The difference is that the blade cantrips can be used with magical weapons. You can't take your flame tongue dagger and use it with conjure barrage. Also, RAW bolts and arrows are considered consumable (and cordon of arrows already specifies that it destroys the arrows).
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
While they spells probably should have been tweaked to clarify this, ammunition, a quiver etc. are not an uncosted components, so replacing them with a focus isn't obviously possible.
Where it gets weird is that we likewise don't assume that the world is just full of free butter for casting grease, but it's also a commodity that doesn't have an explicit cost in the book, even though you'd probably have to pay a vendor something for it.
I can see both sides in that, but the fact that these are components with specific listed costs I'd say they're costed components even if the spell does not remind you of their cost. Some of these spells have always been a bit weird anyway; as quindraco says swift quiver never actually specified you had to touch the quiver you intend to use (though it's implied), conjure volley doesn't actually say it consumes the piece of ammunition even though it clearly should and so-on.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.