I was watching a video last night (from DnD Shorts' YouTube channel, go check him out) that reviewed and ranked all the Ranger subclasses, and he was going through their various features, what feats you could use with them, etc., when something stood out to me. While he was discussing the Crossbow Master feat and how the Gloomstalker is practically invisible in darkness even to creatures with Darkvision, the cogs in my head started turning, and I realized that with a bit of DM co-operation, mechanical ingenuity, and just a tad bit of magic, you could become a better hunter than the actual Hunter, which isn't too hard to be honest. But hear me out.
Crossbow Master lets your character say "no u" to the loading properties of crossbows, ignore disadvantage on attack rolls against enemies right up in your face with any ranged weapon, as well as make an attack with a hand crossbow you are holding as a bonus action if you do an Attack with a one-handed weapon. So now you're dual wielding hand crossbows, what now? You're already able to shoot two bolts in one turn, but let's ramp that up, shall we?
The moment you become a Gloomstalker, you instantly become a first turn beast thanks to your new Dread Ambusher feature. Take note of the extra attack; this means we can now fire three bolts in one turn. Two more Ranger levels gets you ANOTHER attack whenever you make an Attack, now bumping the bolt storm up to four per turn. Thanks to that Dread Ambusher feature, if that fourth bolt lands, it also deals an extra 1d8 (in this case, piercing) damage. A potential 4d6 piercing damage plus an extra 1d8 piercing is nothing to ignore, especially at 5th level, and all in one turn.
11th level just adds another opportunity to fire off another bolt, because once per turn if you miss with a weapon attack, you can make another weapon attack as a part of the same action. Of course, you don't want to miss in the first place, but it's still fun to shoot five bolts in one go. And if you don't want the fun to run out (or your rapidly draining bank account because you're buying so many fricking crossbow bolts), just get your Artificer friend to slap on the Repeating Shot Infusion so you never have to run out of ammo!
One thing that popped into my head while writing this were vampires. You're probably wondering "why vampires?" Well, let's see; vampires love the dark and hate the light. They use the dark to their advantage with their 120ft Darkvision and their abilities that only function when they aren't getting a suntan or taking a bath. Now take into consideration that if pure darkness were to fall, the vampire would not be able to see your Gloomstalker. AT ALL. Having a player get literal invisibility in the environment where they do best is already bound to annoy a vampire, and the only thing they can do is to turn the lights on.
"But vampires have resistance to nonmagical piercing damage, a dual-wielding hand crossbow maniac isn't going to do nearly as well as, say, a paladin!" Well, that's the moment where I pull up our Artificer friend we had Infuse both our hand crossbows earlier. The Repeating Shot Infusion not only ignores the loading property and create ammunition, it creates magic ammunition! Plus, the hand crossbows themselves are now magic weapons anyways, so you kinda just have a Gloomstalker that can unleash 4d6 piercing damage plus an extra 1d8 piercing damage PLUS 2 extra damage (because magic crossbows) in one go if everything lands, plus the damage is magical so it ignores those pesky resistances, PLUS WE'RE STILL AT 5TH LEVEL. I didn't even bother to mention the Piercer feat, which would only make these guys more painful to deal with XD
So, in conclusion, Gloomstalker is busted on its own, but who needs guns when you've got magic crossbows? Now I really wanna hop into a Curse of Strahd campaign and piss off every creature that thinks the dark is their friend lmao
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
Crossbow Master lets your character say "no u" to the loading properties of crossbows, ignore disadvantage on attack rolls against enemies right up in your face with any ranged weapon, as well as make an attack with a hand crossbow you are holding as a bonus action if you do an Attack with a one-handed weapon. So now you're dual wielding hand crossbows, what now? You're already able to shoot two bolts in one turn, but let's ramp that up, shall we?
I have a couple of thoughts on this part specifically. First, quick reminder that "you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon". That is a quote from the "Ammunition" property of the hand crossbow, not the "Loading" property, so Crossbow Expert doesn't let you ignore it. A hand crossbow doesn't have the two-handed property and while you do need a second hand for ammo that seems like a property of the ammunition, so I would assume that it's a one-handed weapon.
The Ammunition property makes wielding two hand crossbows a tricky thing. There are ways to do it. Weapons with Repeating Shot or which otherwise make their own ammo (Dragon Wing Cross-Bow?) would help, some races have extra arms (Thri-kreen come to mind), and some DMs let you "juggle" hand crossbows by dropping them no matter how dumb that seems if you picture the character actually doing it (also, hope you're not levitating or flying!)
That said, why do you need two hand crossbows to get that bonus action attack? The feat says "When you use the Attack action and attack with a one-handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding." The feat doesn't say the hand crossbow has to be a different weapon or in the other hand so... why not just use one hand crossbow for both the Attack action and the Crossbow Expert bonus action attack?
I was watching a video last night (from DnD Shorts' YouTube channel, go check him out) that reviewed and ranked all the Ranger subclasses, and he was going through their various features, what feats you could use with them, etc., when something stood out to me. While he was discussing the Crossbow Master feat and how the Gloomstalker is practically invisible in darkness even to creatures with Darkvision, the cogs in my head started turning, and I realized that with a bit of DM co-operation, mechanical ingenuity, and just a tad bit of magic, you could become a better hunter than the actual Hunter, which isn't too hard to be honest. But hear me out.
Crossbow Master lets your character say "no u" to the loading properties of crossbows, ignore disadvantage on attack rolls against enemies right up in your face with any ranged weapon, as well as make an attack with a hand crossbow you are holding as a bonus action if you do an Attack with a one-handed weapon. So now you're dual wielding hand crossbows, what now? You're already able to shoot two bolts in one turn, but let's ramp that up, shall we?
The moment you become a Gloomstalker, you instantly become a first turn beast thanks to your new Dread Ambusher feature. Take note of the extra attack; this means we can now fire three bolts in one turn. Two more Ranger levels gets you ANOTHER attack whenever you make an Attack, now bumping the bolt storm up to four per turn. Thanks to that Dread Ambusher feature, if that fourth bolt lands, it also deals an extra 1d8 (in this case, piercing) damage. A potential 4d6 piercing damage plus an extra 1d8 piercing is nothing to ignore, especially at 5th level, and all in one turn.
If you are dual wielding hand crossbows and have extra attack you can only make 2 attacks the first round and zero attacks after that until you drop one of them. The XBE feat lets you ignore the loading property, but it does not let you ignore the ammunition property, and you need a free hand to load a hand crossbow due to the AMMUNITION property. Sorry no dual wielding!
To make more than one attack with a hand crossbow you would need to have nothing else in the other hand after the first attack. That said if you have XBE You can still make 3 (or 4) attacks with just one hand crossbow:
When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding.
This does not say you need to be holding the crossbow and a second weapon simultaneously. It just says you need to be holding a one handed weapon and attack with it. The Hand Crossbow is a one-handed weapon, so attacking with the hand crossbow fulfils both the first and second part of the feat.
One thing that popped into my head while writing this were vampires. You're probably wondering "why vampires?" Well, let's see; vampires love the dark and hate the light. They use the dark to their advantage with their 120ft Darkvision and their abilities that only function when they aren't getting a suntan or taking a bath. Now take into consideration that if pure darkness were to fall, the vampire would not be able to see your Gloomstalker. AT ALL. Having a player get literal invisibility in the environment where they do best is already bound to annoy a vampire, and the only thing they can do is to turn the lights on.
"But vampires have resistance to nonmagical piercing damage, a dual-wielding hand crossbow maniac isn't going to do nearly as well as, say, a paladin!" Well, that's the moment where I pull up our Artificer friend we had Infuse both our hand crossbows earlier. The Repeating Shot Infusion not only ignores the loading property and create ammunition, it creates magic ammunition! Plus, the hand crossbows themselves are now magic weapons anyways, so you kinda just have a Gloomstalker that can unleash 4d6 piercing damage plus an extra 1d8 piercing damage PLUS 2 extra damage (because magic crossbows) in one go if everything lands, plus the damage is magical so it ignores those pesky resistances, PLUS WE'RE STILL AT 5TH LEVEL. I didn't even bother to mention the Piercer feat, which would only make these guys more painful to deal with XD
So, in conclusion, Gloomstalker is busted on its own, but who needs guns when you've got magic crossbows? Now I really wanna hop into a Curse of Strahd campaign and piss off every creature that thinks the dark is their friend lmao
A Vampire can turn into a Bat and use echolocation to "see" you .... also this assumes you have an Artificer in the party, which you rarely do, and it assumes he wants to use an infusion for your min-max character. If that is the kind of party you are in it is a safe bet he is doing some optimzation of his own.
Personally I find that narrow builds like this do not typically play out as well in game as on the whiteboard. I have played with a XBE Gloomstalker in the party into level 15 and there were times he was dominant, but overall it was not the most powerful character in the party by a longshot.
I have seen a Goblin Fey Wanderer be the most powerful character in the party though. DNDShorts really missed the mark on Fey Wanderer (as many of the optimizers seem to). Beguiling Twist with concentration-free summon (mirthful) Fey is very powerful. Optimize this with high wisdom, Drudic Warrior fighting style and the Shadow touched Feat with Cause Fear and you have an amazing amount of control. It is devastating to any enemy without immunity to frightened and charmed, overwhelming them with unsurpassed action economy. It is less spectacular against enemies immune to Frightened or Charmed, but then you are still a Ranger with multiattack, an at-will psychic damage bonus, spells and multiple concentration-free summons.
Crossbow Master lets your character say "no u" to the loading properties of crossbows, ignore disadvantage on attack rolls against enemies right up in your face with any ranged weapon, as well as make an attack with a hand crossbow you are holding as a bonus action if you do an Attack with a one-handed weapon. So now you're dual wielding hand crossbows, what now? You're already able to shoot two bolts in one turn, but let's ramp that up, shall we?
That said, why do you need two hand crossbows to get that bonus action attack?
I know you don't need to use two hand crossbows, but you can't tell me it wouldn't look cool as hell dual-wielding hand crossbows lol
Crossbow Master lets your character say "no u" to the loading properties of crossbows, ignore disadvantage on attack rolls against enemies right up in your face with any ranged weapon, as well as make an attack with a hand crossbow you are holding as a bonus action if you do an Attack with a one-handed weapon. So now you're dual wielding hand crossbows, what now? You're already able to shoot two bolts in one turn, but let's ramp that up, shall we?
I have a couple of thoughts on this part specifically. First, quick reminder that "you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon". That is a quote from the "Ammunition" property of the hand crossbow, not the "Loading" property, so Crossbow Expert doesn't let you ignore it. A hand crossbow doesn't have the two-handed property and while you do need a second hand for ammo that seems like a property of the ammunition, so I would assume that it's a one-handed weapon.
The Ammunition property makes wielding two hand crossbows a tricky thing. There are ways to do it. Weapons with Repeating Shot or which otherwise make their own ammo (Dragon Wing Cross-Bow?) would help, some races have extra arms (Thri-kreen come to mind), and some DMs let you "juggle" hand crossbows by dropping them no matter how dumb that seems if you picture the character actually doing it (also, hope you're not levitating or flying!)
I did mention that for this, we'd be using the Artificer's Repeating Shot Infusion, which as you've just mentioned would probably work. This is where that "little bit of DM co-operation" I mentioned at the start comes in handy. I'd only do this if my DM allowed it, but the whole set-up revolves around the fact that the Repeating Shot Infusion circumvents the Loading property on its own. In my mind, this would mean that the crossbow would autoload itself, but also pull the drawstring back so it would be ready to fire. The DM can easily override this, and my whole argument for this working is basically "It's a magic weapon, who says it needs to act like it should obey our logic?"
The thing about Loading is it states that you wouldn't be able to load and load the weapon fast enough to actually preform an attack with it once per turn. Now if things that allow you to remove the Loading property from such weapons, then what's to say there isn't some magical explanation for why this works? If this weren't the case, then they wouldn't have bothered adding such things. A Heavy Crossbow is two-handed, heavy, and loading, and yet it's still affected by effects that allow you to ignore loading, so if you have to carry it with two hands, then how are you going to lock it fast enough to fire again? Spoilers: you aren't, because humans (or any type of humanoid for that matter) simply aren't fast enough. Enter magic.
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
A Vampire can turn into a Bat and use echolocation to "see" you .... also this assumes you have an Artificer in the party, which you rarely do, and it assumes he wants to use an infusion for your min-max character. If that is the kind of party you are in it is a safe bet he is doing some optimzation of his own.
Personally I find that narrow builds like this do not typically play out as well in game as on the whiteboard. I have played with a XBE Gloomstalker in the party into level 15 and there were times he was dominant, but overall it was not the most powerful character in the party by a longshot.
Stop ruining my vampire hunting dreams qwq
But honestly, I know that Gloomstalkers aren't broken as hell, and I want that, ok? I just want a cool character that doesn't drag the party down with them because of their niche specialization. I'm not the type of guy to go for a broken class, I want to go for the one that seems cool, has decent abilities, and works with what I want.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
A Vampire can turn into a Bat and use echolocation to "see" you .... also this assumes you have an Artificer in the party, which you rarely do, and it assumes he wants to use an infusion for your min-max character. If that is the kind of party you are in it is a safe bet he is doing some optimzation of his own.
Personally I find that narrow builds like this do not typically play out as well in game as on the whiteboard. I have played with a XBE Gloomstalker in the party into level 15 and there were times he was dominant, but overall it was not the most powerful character in the party by a longshot.
Stop ruining my vampire hunting dreams qwq
But honestly, I know that Gloomstalkers aren't broken as hell, and I want that, ok? I just want a cool character that doesn't drag the party down with them because of their niche specialization. I'm not the type of guy to go for a broken class, I want to go for the one that seems cool, has decent abilities, and works with what I want.
Sorry for being Debbie Downer.
No Ranger will drag the party down, it is a strong class, arguably the strongest class that is not a full caster and Gloomstalker is a strong subclass. At high level you might have to resort to something else if you don't have a magic crossbow, but it will still br pretty powerful in combat even without getting full advantage from the feat.
No Ranger will drag the party down, it is a strong class, arguably the strongest class that is not a full caster and Gloomstalker is a strong subclass. At high level you might have to resort to something else if you don't have a magic crossbow, but it will still br pretty powerful in combat even without getting full advantage from the feat.
All good lol
And I definitely can agree that an extra option will have to be considered, especially if your party has an Artificer who doesn't want to invest their Infusions in your crossbow-wielding dreams, which is completely fair.
One semi-viable way to get around this is by utilizing the extra spells given to the Ranger in TCoE, which grant the Ranger the 2nd Level spell Magic Weapon and the 3rd Level spell Elemental Weapon. However, both require Concentration, and neither grant that ever so needed Ammunition cheesing ability.
In short, to make this idea work well even without two magic crossbows, just grab a hand crossbow, some melee weapon (ideally one-handed), and maybe one of the aftermentioned spells if you're really desperate for that extra bonus.
It's nowhere near combat optimized, but it provides a unique combat style in encounters, and also raises the question of "why is that guy walking around with two crossbows?" Funny RP moments and shenanigans are sure to arise at some point XD
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
I will add being invisible is not the same as being hidden. (There are some problems with this but also benefits) j.c has a sage advice video on the topic.
Phb ranger can eventually get hide as a bonus action but that's not a choice for everyone.
I will add being invisible is not the same as being hidden. (There are some problems with this but also benefits)
Phb ranger can eventually get hide as a bonus action but that's not a choice for everyone.
I remember. Invisible creatures have the downside of still being detectable by a variety of creatures and other beings, as well as needing to be quiet and not leave tracks. Regardless, it's still great in most situations.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
I will add being invisible is not the same as being hidden. (There are some problems with this but also benefits)
Phb ranger can eventually get hide as a bonus action but that's not a choice for everyone.
I remember. Invisible creatures have the downside of still being detectable by a variety of creatures and other beings, as well as needing to be quiet and not leave tracks. Regardless, it's still great in most situations.
The biggest issue is the party does not know where they are. That means they can't be targeted with buffs that require you to see the target and that you get caught in things like fireball often.
I will add being invisible is not the same as being hidden. (There are some problems with this but also benefits)
Phb ranger can eventually get hide as a bonus action but that's not a choice for everyone.
I remember. Invisible creatures have the downside of still being detectable by a variety of creatures and other beings, as well as needing to be quiet and not leave tracks. Regardless, it's still great in most situations.
The biggest issue is the party does not know where they are. That means they can't be targeted with buffs that require you to see the target and that you get caught in things like fireball often.
Very fair as well. But if you're going up against a single enemy and co-ordinate with your team well beforehand, then it can be effective
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
I will add being invisible is not the same as being hidden. (There are some problems with this but also benefits)
Phb ranger can eventually get hide as a bonus action but that's not a choice for everyone.
I remember. Invisible creatures have the downside of still being detectable by a variety of creatures and other beings, as well as needing to be quiet and not leave tracks. Regardless, it's still great in most situations.
The biggest issue is the party does not know where they are. That means they can't be targeted with buffs that require you to see the target and that you get caught in things like fireball often.
"The party doesn't know where you are" isn't technically true. Unless you hide your location is available to all creatures by default. The dm may rule standing or half movement allow you to be silent and therfore undetected.
Still giving enemies disadvantage to hit is a good benefit and being untargetable by sight can be good by itself.
I will add being invisible is not the same as being hidden. (There are some problems with this but also benefits)
Phb ranger can eventually get hide as a bonus action but that's not a choice for everyone.
I remember. Invisible creatures have the downside of still being detectable by a variety of creatures and other beings, as well as needing to be quiet and not leave tracks. Regardless, it's still great in most situations.
The biggest issue is the party does not know where they are. That means they can't be targeted with buffs that require you to see the target and that you get caught in things like fireball often.
"The party doesn't know where you are" isn't technically true. Unless you hide your location is available to all creatures by default. The dm may rule standing or half movement allow you to be silent and therfore undetected.
Still giving enemies disadvantage to hit is a good benefit and being untargetable by sight can be good by itself.
Indeed. Even if your allies can't buff you, it also means that anything that relies on line of sight becomes instantly unreliable. Plus, if you're invisible before the encounter and make sure to stay sneaky, what's to say they're even aware of your presence?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
Start build with rogue then 5 levels ranger gloomstalker and then back to rogue from then on and make him a scout rogue for the expertise bonus there. Lethal warrior with frequent advantage. Use a feat to get eldrich adept for devils sight. Now you can see in magical darkness as well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I was watching a video last night (from DnD Shorts' YouTube channel, go check him out) that reviewed and ranked all the Ranger subclasses, and he was going through their various features, what feats you could use with them, etc., when something stood out to me. While he was discussing the Crossbow Master feat and how the Gloomstalker is practically invisible in darkness even to creatures with Darkvision, the cogs in my head started turning, and I realized that with a bit of DM co-operation, mechanical ingenuity, and just a tad bit of magic, you could become a better hunter than the actual Hunter, which isn't too hard to be honest. But hear me out.
Crossbow Master lets your character say "no u" to the loading properties of crossbows, ignore disadvantage on attack rolls against enemies right up in your face with any ranged weapon, as well as make an attack with a hand crossbow you are holding as a bonus action if you do an Attack with a one-handed weapon. So now you're dual wielding hand crossbows, what now? You're already able to shoot two bolts in one turn, but let's ramp that up, shall we?
The moment you become a Gloomstalker, you instantly become a first turn beast thanks to your new Dread Ambusher feature. Take note of the extra attack; this means we can now fire three bolts in one turn. Two more Ranger levels gets you ANOTHER attack whenever you make an Attack, now bumping the bolt storm up to four per turn. Thanks to that Dread Ambusher feature, if that fourth bolt lands, it also deals an extra 1d8 (in this case, piercing) damage. A potential 4d6 piercing damage plus an extra 1d8 piercing is nothing to ignore, especially at 5th level, and all in one turn.
11th level just adds another opportunity to fire off another bolt, because once per turn if you miss with a weapon attack, you can make another weapon attack as a part of the same action. Of course, you don't want to miss in the first place, but it's still fun to shoot five bolts in one go. And if you don't want the fun to run out (or your rapidly draining bank account because you're buying so many fricking crossbow bolts), just get your Artificer friend to slap on the Repeating Shot Infusion so you never have to run out of ammo!
One thing that popped into my head while writing this were vampires. You're probably wondering "why vampires?" Well, let's see; vampires love the dark and hate the light. They use the dark to their advantage with their 120ft Darkvision and their abilities that only function when they aren't getting a suntan or taking a bath. Now take into consideration that if pure darkness were to fall, the vampire would not be able to see your Gloomstalker. AT ALL. Having a player get literal invisibility in the environment where they do best is already bound to annoy a vampire, and the only thing they can do is to turn the lights on.
"But vampires have resistance to nonmagical piercing damage, a dual-wielding hand crossbow maniac isn't going to do nearly as well as, say, a paladin!" Well, that's the moment where I pull up our Artificer friend we had Infuse both our hand crossbows earlier. The Repeating Shot Infusion not only ignores the loading property and create ammunition, it creates magic ammunition! Plus, the hand crossbows themselves are now magic weapons anyways, so you kinda just have a Gloomstalker that can unleash 4d6 piercing damage plus an extra 1d8 piercing damage PLUS 2 extra damage (because magic crossbows) in one go if everything lands, plus the damage is magical so it ignores those pesky resistances, PLUS WE'RE STILL AT 5TH LEVEL. I didn't even bother to mention the Piercer feat, which would only make these guys more painful to deal with XD
So, in conclusion, Gloomstalker is busted on its own, but who needs guns when you've got magic crossbows?
Now I really wanna hop into a Curse of Strahd campaign and piss off every creature that thinks the dark is their friend lmaoADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
I have a couple of thoughts on this part specifically. First, quick reminder that "you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon". That is a quote from the "Ammunition" property of the hand crossbow, not the "Loading" property, so Crossbow Expert doesn't let you ignore it. A hand crossbow doesn't have the two-handed property and while you do need a second hand for ammo that seems like a property of the ammunition, so I would assume that it's a one-handed weapon.
The Ammunition property makes wielding two hand crossbows a tricky thing. There are ways to do it. Weapons with Repeating Shot or which otherwise make their own ammo (Dragon Wing Cross-Bow?) would help, some races have extra arms (Thri-kreen come to mind), and some DMs let you "juggle" hand crossbows by dropping them no matter how dumb that seems if you picture the character actually doing it (also, hope you're not levitating or flying!)
That said, why do you need two hand crossbows to get that bonus action attack? The feat says "When you use the Attack action and attack with a one-handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding." The feat doesn't say the hand crossbow has to be a different weapon or in the other hand so... why not just use one hand crossbow for both the Attack action and the Crossbow Expert bonus action attack?
If you are dual wielding hand crossbows and have extra attack you can only make 2 attacks the first round and zero attacks after that until you drop one of them. The XBE feat lets you ignore the loading property, but it does not let you ignore the ammunition property, and you need a free hand to load a hand crossbow due to the AMMUNITION property. Sorry no dual wielding!
To make more than one attack with a hand crossbow you would need to have nothing else in the other hand after the first attack. That said if you have XBE You can still make 3 (or 4) attacks with just one hand crossbow:
When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding.
This does not say you need to be holding the crossbow and a second weapon simultaneously. It just says you need to be holding a one handed weapon and attack with it. The Hand Crossbow is a one-handed weapon, so attacking with the hand crossbow fulfils both the first and second part of the feat.
A Vampire can turn into a Bat and use echolocation to "see" you .... also this assumes you have an Artificer in the party, which you rarely do, and it assumes he wants to use an infusion for your min-max character. If that is the kind of party you are in it is a safe bet he is doing some optimzation of his own.
Personally I find that narrow builds like this do not typically play out as well in game as on the whiteboard. I have played with a XBE Gloomstalker in the party into level 15 and there were times he was dominant, but overall it was not the most powerful character in the party by a longshot.
I have seen a Goblin Fey Wanderer be the most powerful character in the party though. DNDShorts really missed the mark on Fey Wanderer (as many of the optimizers seem to). Beguiling Twist with concentration-free summon (mirthful) Fey is very powerful. Optimize this with high wisdom, Drudic Warrior fighting style and the Shadow touched Feat with Cause Fear and you have an amazing amount of control. It is devastating to any enemy without immunity to frightened and charmed, overwhelming them with unsurpassed action economy. It is less spectacular against enemies immune to Frightened or Charmed, but then you are still a Ranger with multiattack, an at-will psychic damage bonus, spells and multiple concentration-free summons.
I know you don't need to use two hand crossbows, but you can't tell me it wouldn't look cool as hell dual-wielding hand crossbows lol
I did mention that for this, we'd be using the Artificer's Repeating Shot Infusion, which as you've just mentioned would probably work. This is where that "little bit of DM co-operation" I mentioned at the start comes in handy. I'd only do this if my DM allowed it, but the whole set-up revolves around the fact that the Repeating Shot Infusion circumvents the Loading property on its own. In my mind, this would mean that the crossbow would autoload itself, but also pull the drawstring back so it would be ready to fire. The DM can easily override this, and my whole argument for this working is basically "It's a magic weapon, who says it needs to act like it should obey our logic?"
The thing about Loading is it states that you wouldn't be able to load and load the weapon fast enough to actually preform an attack with it once per turn. Now if things that allow you to remove the Loading property from such weapons, then what's to say there isn't some magical explanation for why this works? If this weren't the case, then they wouldn't have bothered adding such things. A Heavy Crossbow is two-handed, heavy, and loading, and yet it's still affected by effects that allow you to ignore loading, so if you have to carry it with two hands, then how are you going to lock it fast enough to fire again? Spoilers: you aren't, because humans (or any type of humanoid for that matter) simply aren't fast enough. Enter magic.
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
Stop ruining my vampire hunting dreams qwq
But honestly, I know that Gloomstalkers aren't broken as hell, and I want that, ok? I just want a cool character that doesn't drag the party down with them because of their niche specialization. I'm not the type of guy to go for a broken class, I want to go for the one that seems cool, has decent abilities, and works with what I want.
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
Sorry for being Debbie Downer.
No Ranger will drag the party down, it is a strong class, arguably the strongest class that is not a full caster and Gloomstalker is a strong subclass. At high level you might have to resort to something else if you don't have a magic crossbow, but it will still br pretty powerful in combat even without getting full advantage from the feat.
All good lol
And I definitely can agree that an extra option will have to be considered, especially if your party has an Artificer who doesn't want to invest their Infusions in your crossbow-wielding dreams, which is completely fair.
One semi-viable way to get around this is by utilizing the extra spells given to the Ranger in TCoE, which grant the Ranger the 2nd Level spell Magic Weapon and the 3rd Level spell Elemental Weapon. However, both require Concentration, and neither grant that ever so needed Ammunition cheesing ability.
In short, to make this idea work well even without two magic crossbows, just grab a hand crossbow, some melee weapon (ideally one-handed), and maybe one of the aftermentioned spells if you're really desperate for that extra bonus.
It's nowhere near combat optimized, but it provides a unique combat style in encounters, and also raises the question of "why is that guy walking around with two crossbows?" Funny RP moments and shenanigans are sure to arise at some point XD
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
I will add being invisible is not the same as being hidden. (There are some problems with this but also benefits) j.c has a sage advice video on the topic.
Phb ranger can eventually get hide as a bonus action but that's not a choice for everyone.
I remember. Invisible creatures have the downside of still being detectable by a variety of creatures and other beings, as well as needing to be quiet and not leave tracks. Regardless, it's still great in most situations.
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
The biggest issue is the party does not know where they are. That means they can't be targeted with buffs that require you to see the target and that you get caught in things like fireball often.
Very fair as well. But if you're going up against a single enemy and co-ordinate with your team well beforehand, then it can be effective
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
"The party doesn't know where you are" isn't technically true. Unless you hide your location is available to all creatures by default. The dm may rule standing or half movement allow you to be silent and therfore undetected.
Still giving enemies disadvantage to hit is a good benefit and being untargetable by sight can be good by itself.
Indeed. Even if your allies can't buff you, it also means that anything that relies on line of sight becomes instantly unreliable. Plus, if you're invisible before the encounter and make sure to stay sneaky, what's to say they're even aware of your presence?
ADHD Aussie (17M) with too many ideas and not enough time! Always up to chat!
Disclaimer: I'm not an optimizer. If I say something that's not fine-tuned to perfection, that's on purpose. D&D isn't an online tournament, it's a TTRPG where your imagination and the DM's compliance are the limits. I don't do "metas". If I can have fun with my thematically cool and still viable (both in and out of combat) concept, I'm happy. I'm not going for optimal stats; I'm going for optimal fun.
Start build with rogue then 5 levels ranger gloomstalker and then back to rogue from then on and make him a scout rogue for the expertise bonus there. Lethal warrior with frequent advantage. Use a feat to get eldrich adept for devils sight. Now you can see in magical darkness as well.