The 2024 Player's Handbook Ranger has been teased, and Hunter's Mark is fully embedded in the class. Replacing the Favored Enemy (2014 PHB) and Favored Foe (Tasha's Cauldron of Everything) features, HM just seemed like the most sensible choice to me. It was already an iconic Ranger spell, and the feature itself already dealt damage, so I thought the replacement made perfect sense. While I do have a couple problems with it (spell improvement scaling isn't great), I feel the one talked about most is that it requires concentration.
Much of the discussion around the 2024 PHB Ranger seems to be around this change, and how it has forced you into using HM over other concentration spells. While the base class definitely encourages you to use HM, I think it's blown way out of proportion- for one, you're not forced to use it. You can just cast your ensnaring strike, or zephyr strike. Two, and kind of the question of this thread, there are situations where you will and won't want to use it- in which case, what concentration spells do you use?
Let's consider these situations. HM is a good spell to use to add damage on your attacks, even better with the new Nick Mastery Property. But what if you need to hide from enemies? Well you and your party would probably benefit from a pass without trace, or fog cloud more than HM. While fighting a terrifying dragon, you may consider casting protection from energy, depending on the dragon type, if you need a more defensive option. Perhaps you need some extra movement alongside damage, you may think to cast Ashardalon's stride to close the gap. Yes HM requiring concentration does make it more difficult a choice, but it's one that many classes already have to make- even the 2014 Ranger.
There are situations in which you want to cast a different concentration spell over HM. Now if you would like to argue the scaling in the 2024 Ranger is bad I would agree. I think the damage should scale to a d8 at 10th or 11th level, the new Relentless Hunter feature should be like 6th or 8th level, the new Precise Hunter feature at 13th level, a 17th level feature that scales the damage to a d10 and maybe lets you add conditions, and the capstone should make HM no longer require concentration among other powerful benefits.
Another idea I had, just to throw this out there, is to make HM have multiple uses similar to the Rogue's Cunning Strike. Maybe you can modify your HM to restrain enemies similar to the ensnaring strike spell, or have it grant you a burst of speed and empowered attack similar to the zephyr strike spell.
I use Zephyr Strike a ton - it's incredibly useful for me to be immune to opportunity attacks in the way our party plays. I'm usually fighting with two shortswords but I've also found it useful with the longbow, for backing away if enemies try to close with me. And it lets me get right to the most dangerous foe on the battlefield without being swiped by a bunch of low level minions.
I use Hunter's Mark when there's one single high level foe, and especially with the longbow. But honestly, I don't find it to be a very interesting use of my spell slot, because it doesn't impact my tactical choices, and with two-weapon fighting, it competes with my bonus action if I have to move it.
Getting the extra free castings of HM I see as potentially useful for making it feel better to raise and drop HM without wasting a spell slot. Having more spells prepared and having the ability to swap spells after a long rest also will add to the versatility in combat.
I do wish spells like Hail of Thorns didn't compete for concentration, even if the rule was simply that the damage didn't stack. Casting and recasting Hunter's Mark and Zephyr Strike just feels wasteful.
I'm fine though with simply not using HM if I don't want to.
I believe the issue is that several features, mostly at higher levels, are only in play IF you are concentrating on Hunter's Mark. If you do not want to use Hunter's Mark, then you are unable to use these features.
So now EVERY other concentration spell is coming with not just the cost of not being able to maintain a spell that you may or may not enjoy, but ALSO at the cost of other class features. The feeling is that you are forced to use Hunter's Mark because more of the class is unlocked with Hunter's Mark, and every time you cast a non Hunter's Mark concentration spell you are waiving your class features.
So instead of synergising features you're now directly competing with features, much like the Ranger Bonus Action was clogged in 2014, except with an added layer of feature competition.
Some people will be fine with this, and some people will absolutely detest this.
Quite frankly it's just disappointingly poor thought out design, in my opinion. It suggests to me that WotC don't understand what drives a portion of Ranger players, and don't understand the consequences of their actions.
To answer the topic directly though, my favoured Ranger concentration spells are:
Ensnaring Strike, because the extra combat utility is excellent. Being able to restrain the target is helpful for positioning, and the advantage/disadvantage is making life easier for the party.
Zephyr Strike because of the way it enables you to escape situations, it's just an excellent way to ensure you're where you need to be.
Pass Without Trace because it's a massive boon to the party.
Spike Growth because it's such a beautiful way to control the battlefield, and so many ways for other classes to synergise with movement based abilities.
As I've never gotten past 7th level in a Ranger campaign I can't say for sure what else would be beyond second level spells.
I would like to point out that I don't mind Hunter's Mark the spell, and will use it also in the right circumstances. I just feel there are more fun options.
The new hunters mark is once per turn so no synergy with nick. I feel the summon series outclasses it for levels 3+ by a significant margin as a damage add. I prefer an aoe concentration spell like entangle or faerie fire followed by attacks for the remainder of combat.
I have read reports that Hunter's Mark will work on every hit like in 2014, but that has not been confirmed. It also likely won't be confirmed until the NDA's are up in August. At this point it is the most critical question on the 2024 ranger. If its on every hit then the 2024 is generally a nice improvement. If its on only one hit then the HM related features are trash.
I know the UA had HM as once per turn, but I was under the impression it was no longer that way in the new 2024 PHB (I could easily be mistaken). If it remains the UA version then that really hurts, and I would definitely consider other concentration spells over it without much hesitation. That being said, the summon spells are pretty sweet- very pleased they're adding those to the base PHB.
I use Zephyr Strike a ton - it's incredibly useful for me to be immune to opportunity attacks in the way our party plays. I'm usually fighting with two shortswords but I've also found it useful with the longbow, for backing away if enemies try to close with me. And it lets me get right to the most dangerous foe on the battlefield without being swiped by a bunch of low level minions.
I use Hunter's Mark when there's one single high level foe, and especially with the longbow. But honestly, I don't find it to be a very interesting use of my spell slot, because it doesn't impact my tactical choices, and with two-weapon fighting, it competes with my bonus action if I have to move it.
Getting the extra free castings of HM I see as potentially useful for making it feel better to raise and drop HM without wasting a spell slot. Having more spells prepared and having the ability to swap spells after a long rest also will add to the versatility in combat.
I do wish spells like Hail of Thorns didn't compete for concentration, even if the rule was simply that the damage didn't stack. Casting and recasting Hunter's Mark and Zephyr Strike just feels wasteful.
I'm fine though with simply not using HM if I don't want to.
I feel mentioning a situation in which HM would be more useful over other concentration spells would have been beneficial- having that big bad target is definitely a great place to use it. In terms of tactical choice, that is an excellent point: HM is just damage with the utility of tracking, which may not always be needed, whereas something like ensnaring strike potentially restraining enemies is quite useful for everyone, and you brought up using zephyr strike to escape from enemies- yet another great tactical choice.
It's kind of why I liked the idea of modifying HM with certain choice benefits, like applying conditions, granting yourself an AC bonus temporarily, or not making you vulnerable to opportunity attacks (not to take away from the other spells necessarily).
To answer the topic directly though, my favoured Ranger concentration spells are:
Ensnaring Strike, because the extra combat utility is excellent. Being able to restrain the target is helpful for positioning, and the advantage/disadvantage is making life easier for the party.
Zephyr Strike because of the way it enables you to escape situations, it's just an excellent way to ensure you're where you need to be.
Pass Without Trace because it's a massive boon to the party.
Spike Growth because it's such a beautiful way to control the battlefield, and so many ways for other classes to synergise with movement based abilities.
As I've never gotten past 7th level in a Ranger campaign I can't say for sure what else would be beyond second level spells.
I would like to point out that I don't mind Hunter's Mark the spell, and will use it also in the right circumstances. I just feel there are more fun options.
I should mention I have yet to play a Ranger in a campaign, so I will not pretend like I personally know what it's like. When I make Ranger sheets, I do always struggle to choose between whether I want to focus on HM, zephyr strike, or other spells of the like, though maybe the additional prepared spells in the 2024 Ranger will make this much less difficult. I have seen spike growth be used in a massive battlefield though and wow it was silly powerful (in a fun way of course).
To answer the topic directly though, my favoured Ranger concentration spells are:
Ensnaring Strike, because the extra combat utility is excellent. Being able to restrain the target is helpful for positioning, and the advantage/disadvantage is making life easier for the party.
Zephyr Strike because of the way it enables you to escape situations, it's just an excellent way to ensure you're where you need to be.
Pass Without Trace because it's a massive boon to the party.
Spike Growth because it's such a beautiful way to control the battlefield, and so many ways for other classes to synergise with movement based abilities.
As I've never gotten past 7th level in a Ranger campaign I can't say for sure what else would be beyond second level spells.
I would like to point out that I don't mind Hunter's Mark the spell, and will use it also in the right circumstances. I just feel there are more fun options.
I should mention I have yet to play a Ranger in a campaign, so I will not pretend like I personally know what it's like. When I make Ranger sheets, I do always struggle to choose between whether I want to focus on HM, zephyr strike, or other spells of the like, though maybe the additional prepared spells in the 2024 Ranger will make this much less difficult. I have seen spike growth be used in a massive battlefield though and wow it was silly powerful (in a fun way of course).
The seduction, if you will, of Hunter's mark for me is that it is potentially so much more efficient over other spells when it comes to resources. It lasts for up to an hour (more when upcast), whereas Zephyr Strike lasts for 1 measly minute, which means that you're potentially using one spell resource over the course of multiple encounters. Which is really compelling to a resource hoarder like myself. Never mind that it is bonus action bloat heavy, that's unimportant to its appeal.
Making it always prepared is a good thing, at least you no longer have to wrestle with will I or won't I take it, although the struggle is still whether to cast it or something else, and if you have other features riding on it then maybe that decision leans more towards HM, which is a shame because there are so many fun options you can take instead that might now get passed up.
The one thing I do love about Hunters Mark is using it to track an enemy. My party on a few occassions have let the last enemy escape for the soul purpose of tracking tem back to their lair where true treasure might be. I do hate that it is tied to other features now so it must be used in order to get to those features.
I just closed out a campaign with a 20th level ranger a few months back. I used Favored Enemy over Favored Foe (made her before Tasha's came out, elected not to switch because it worked better for the kind of tracking inherent in our campaign) and used HM heavily.
Other concentration spells I used were:
Healing Spirit, because I was one of two people who had any healing spells, and the other was a druid who was often wildshaped.
Locate Object/Creature and PWoT
Banishment (subclass spell) was situationally clutch
Guardian of Nature was the one that I most frequently chose over HM, because the advantage was better than the bonus to damage.
A fair number of what I'd use were just things where the two weren't in conflict -- I think the only other spells I had that were concentration that I might want to use in combat, beside HS, was PFG&E. So it was no contest.
I really like ensnaring strike, and only use hunters mark outside of combat - the ability to do some damage and also provide debuff to enemny and buff to your party is great as a support and skills type role in the party i like ot play.
Would love it if the 2024 ranger allowed for these hunters mark bonus to be a thing added on to attacks without clashing the concentration and bonus action usage. I can still imagine playing ranger mostly, but prob will just accept the hunters mark stuff isnt going to be used much/ if at all.
Hunter's mark in particular is situational. Now I don't have a problem with "situational" but rather forced playstyles. It really works best on single target long combats or lower hp minions where you don't want to waste resources.
If there's a lot of players on the field the cost of use goes up for every target swap an often will make you attack your target who might not be the optimal target since comat changed from turn to turn.
Summons and companions in particular have bonus action commands vs target change interferences.
HM and its add on are not only situational but having several free castings make other concentration spells better choices n many cases. Area denial spells, (entangle, etc) are always useful as are things like faerie fire. Zephyr strike and steel wind strike are wonderful spells when used properly to deal with minions/awarms,etc. conjur and summon g spells are possibly a ranger’s most potent spells in many cases.
I believe the issue is that several features, mostly at higher levels, are only in play IF you are concentrating on Hunter's Mark. If you do not want to use Hunter's Mark, then you are unable to use these features.
So now EVERY other concentration spell is coming with not just the cost of not being able to maintain a spell that you may or may not enjoy, but ALSO at the cost of other class features. The feeling is that you are forced to use Hunter's Mark because more of the class is unlocked with Hunter's Mark, and every time you cast a non Hunter's Mark concentration spell you are waiving your class features.
So instead of synergising features you're now directly competing with features, much like the Ranger Bonus Action was clogged in 2014, except with an added layer of feature competition.
Some people will be fine with this, and some people will absolutely detest this.
Quite frankly it's just disappointingly poor thought out design, in my opinion. It suggests to me that WotC don't understand what drives a portion of Ranger players, and don't understand the consequences of their actions.
Yes but than they can fix it by selling us Tasha's daughters cauldren of more things for $29.95 and it will fix this issue as an alternative source.
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The 2024 Player's Handbook Ranger has been teased, and Hunter's Mark is fully embedded in the class. Replacing the Favored Enemy (2014 PHB) and Favored Foe (Tasha's Cauldron of Everything) features, HM just seemed like the most sensible choice to me. It was already an iconic Ranger spell, and the feature itself already dealt damage, so I thought the replacement made perfect sense. While I do have a couple problems with it (spell improvement scaling isn't great), I feel the one talked about most is that it requires concentration.
Much of the discussion around the 2024 PHB Ranger seems to be around this change, and how it has forced you into using HM over other concentration spells. While the base class definitely encourages you to use HM, I think it's blown way out of proportion- for one, you're not forced to use it. You can just cast your ensnaring strike, or zephyr strike. Two, and kind of the question of this thread, there are situations where you will and won't want to use it- in which case, what concentration spells do you use?
Let's consider these situations. HM is a good spell to use to add damage on your attacks, even better with the new Nick Mastery Property. But what if you need to hide from enemies? Well you and your party would probably benefit from a pass without trace, or fog cloud more than HM. While fighting a terrifying dragon, you may consider casting protection from energy, depending on the dragon type, if you need a more defensive option. Perhaps you need some extra movement alongside damage, you may think to cast Ashardalon's stride to close the gap. Yes HM requiring concentration does make it more difficult a choice, but it's one that many classes already have to make- even the 2014 Ranger.
There are situations in which you want to cast a different concentration spell over HM. Now if you would like to argue the scaling in the 2024 Ranger is bad I would agree. I think the damage should scale to a d8 at 10th or 11th level, the new Relentless Hunter feature should be like 6th or 8th level, the new Precise Hunter feature at 13th level, a 17th level feature that scales the damage to a d10 and maybe lets you add conditions, and the capstone should make HM no longer require concentration among other powerful benefits.
Another idea I had, just to throw this out there, is to make HM have multiple uses similar to the Rogue's Cunning Strike. Maybe you can modify your HM to restrain enemies similar to the ensnaring strike spell, or have it grant you a burst of speed and empowered attack similar to the zephyr strike spell.
I use Zephyr Strike a ton - it's incredibly useful for me to be immune to opportunity attacks in the way our party plays. I'm usually fighting with two shortswords but I've also found it useful with the longbow, for backing away if enemies try to close with me. And it lets me get right to the most dangerous foe on the battlefield without being swiped by a bunch of low level minions.
I use Hunter's Mark when there's one single high level foe, and especially with the longbow. But honestly, I don't find it to be a very interesting use of my spell slot, because it doesn't impact my tactical choices, and with two-weapon fighting, it competes with my bonus action if I have to move it.
Getting the extra free castings of HM I see as potentially useful for making it feel better to raise and drop HM without wasting a spell slot. Having more spells prepared and having the ability to swap spells after a long rest also will add to the versatility in combat.
I do wish spells like Hail of Thorns didn't compete for concentration, even if the rule was simply that the damage didn't stack. Casting and recasting Hunter's Mark and Zephyr Strike just feels wasteful.
I'm fine though with simply not using HM if I don't want to.
I believe the issue is that several features, mostly at higher levels, are only in play IF you are concentrating on Hunter's Mark. If you do not want to use Hunter's Mark, then you are unable to use these features.
So now EVERY other concentration spell is coming with not just the cost of not being able to maintain a spell that you may or may not enjoy, but ALSO at the cost of other class features. The feeling is that you are forced to use Hunter's Mark because more of the class is unlocked with Hunter's Mark, and every time you cast a non Hunter's Mark concentration spell you are waiving your class features.
So instead of synergising features you're now directly competing with features, much like the Ranger Bonus Action was clogged in 2014, except with an added layer of feature competition.
Some people will be fine with this, and some people will absolutely detest this.
Quite frankly it's just disappointingly poor thought out design, in my opinion. It suggests to me that WotC don't understand what drives a portion of Ranger players, and don't understand the consequences of their actions.
To answer the topic directly though, my favoured Ranger concentration spells are:
As I've never gotten past 7th level in a Ranger campaign I can't say for sure what else would be beyond second level spells.
I would like to point out that I don't mind Hunter's Mark the spell, and will use it also in the right circumstances. I just feel there are more fun options.
The new hunters mark is once per turn so no synergy with nick. I feel the summon series outclasses it for levels 3+ by a significant margin as a damage add. I prefer an aoe concentration spell like entangle or faerie fire followed by attacks for the remainder of combat.
I have read reports that Hunter's Mark will work on every hit like in 2014, but that has not been confirmed. It also likely won't be confirmed until the NDA's are up in August. At this point it is the most critical question on the 2024 ranger. If its on every hit then the 2024 is generally a nice improvement. If its on only one hit then the HM related features are trash.
I know the UA had HM as once per turn, but I was under the impression it was no longer that way in the new 2024 PHB (I could easily be mistaken). If it remains the UA version then that really hurts, and I would definitely consider other concentration spells over it without much hesitation. That being said, the summon spells are pretty sweet- very pleased they're adding those to the base PHB.
I feel mentioning a situation in which HM would be more useful over other concentration spells would have been beneficial- having that big bad target is definitely a great place to use it. In terms of tactical choice, that is an excellent point: HM is just damage with the utility of tracking, which may not always be needed, whereas something like ensnaring strike potentially restraining enemies is quite useful for everyone, and you brought up using zephyr strike to escape from enemies- yet another great tactical choice.
It's kind of why I liked the idea of modifying HM with certain choice benefits, like applying conditions, granting yourself an AC bonus temporarily, or not making you vulnerable to opportunity attacks (not to take away from the other spells necessarily).
I should mention I have yet to play a Ranger in a campaign, so I will not pretend like I personally know what it's like. When I make Ranger sheets, I do always struggle to choose between whether I want to focus on HM, zephyr strike, or other spells of the like, though maybe the additional prepared spells in the 2024 Ranger will make this much less difficult. I have seen spike growth be used in a massive battlefield though and wow it was silly powerful (in a fun way of course).
The seduction, if you will, of Hunter's mark for me is that it is potentially so much more efficient over other spells when it comes to resources. It lasts for up to an hour (more when upcast), whereas Zephyr Strike lasts for 1 measly minute, which means that you're potentially using one spell resource over the course of multiple encounters. Which is really compelling to a resource hoarder like myself. Never mind that it is bonus action bloat heavy, that's unimportant to its appeal.
Making it always prepared is a good thing, at least you no longer have to wrestle with will I or won't I take it, although the struggle is still whether to cast it or something else, and if you have other features riding on it then maybe that decision leans more towards HM, which is a shame because there are so many fun options you can take instead that might now get passed up.
The one thing I do love about Hunters Mark is using it to track an enemy. My party on a few occassions have let the last enemy escape for the soul purpose of tracking tem back to their lair where true treasure might be. I do hate that it is tied to other features now so it must be used in order to get to those features.
I just closed out a campaign with a 20th level ranger a few months back. I used Favored Enemy over Favored Foe (made her before Tasha's came out, elected not to switch because it worked better for the kind of tracking inherent in our campaign) and used HM heavily.
Other concentration spells I used were:
A fair number of what I'd use were just things where the two weren't in conflict -- I think the only other spells I had that were concentration that I might want to use in combat, beside HS, was PFG&E. So it was no contest.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
I really like ensnaring strike, and only use hunters mark outside of combat - the ability to do some damage and also provide debuff to enemny and buff to your party is great as a support and skills type role in the party i like ot play.
Would love it if the 2024 ranger allowed for these hunters mark bonus to be a thing added on to attacks without clashing the concentration and bonus action usage. I can still imagine playing ranger mostly, but prob will just accept the hunters mark stuff isnt going to be used much/ if at all.
Hunter's mark in particular is situational. Now I don't have a problem with "situational" but rather forced playstyles. It really works best on single target long combats or lower hp minions where you don't want to waste resources.
If there's a lot of players on the field the cost of use goes up for every target swap an often will make you attack your target who might not be the optimal target since comat changed from turn to turn.
Summons and companions in particular have bonus action commands vs target change interferences.
HM and its add on are not only situational but having several free castings make other concentration spells better choices n many cases. Area denial spells, (entangle, etc) are always useful as are things like faerie fire. Zephyr strike and steel wind strike are wonderful spells when used properly to deal with minions/awarms,etc. conjur and summon g spells are possibly a ranger’s most potent spells in many cases.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Yes but than they can fix it by selling us Tasha's daughters cauldren of more things for $29.95 and it will fix this issue as an alternative source.