Instead of arguing about whether or not rangers deal “as much” or “comparable” damage as other martial classes, can we instead all band together and complain about how much damage you can do with two levels in warlock using only eldritch blast and hex? THAT should be the real thing that is discussed so much.
Besides, rangers deal just as much damage as other martial classes, and in some instances more damage than other martial classes.
Two levels of warlock? In one round with hex and EB, assuming you hit and have Agonizing Blast, you deal 1d10+3+1d6 with 16 Charisma. An average of 13 dmg to a single target. A Raging barb with a greatsword at level 2, and at least 16 Strength deals 2d6+5, or an average of 13 dmg, which is the same. A fighter with the same Strength, weapon and using Action Surge can deal an average of 22 dmg in one round, provided they hit both times, and a Wizard casting Burning Hands can deal an average of 12 dmg to however many people are in their range, so long as the creatures fail their save.
My point is, 13 average dmg is not that much. Hell, a ranger with dueling, Hunter's Mark and 16 Strength can deal more, clocking in at 15 average dmg. If we're talking about multiclassing into warlock after quite a few levels in any class, that I can understand, but many other class combos pump out more damage in a single round.
(I only specified it once, but the averages I used were for level two characters)
Sorry. I’m specifically talking about tiers 3 and 4.
Sorry, but that’s not “with two levels of Warlock” then. It’s two levels of warlock + whatever level you took in other classes, and those two levels of warlock delay your high level abilities in those other classes (and block levels 19-20, of course). It’s good, but hardly broken. Doing away with class levels in many instances is also in great part what makes 5E the best edition by far for making multiclassing viable.
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I apologize. I think my point was missed. People spend so much energy and time arguing about which class does more damage and such. When just 2 levels in warlock (obviously only if multiclassing is “turned on”) does more consistent damage than any of them in the tiers of play 3 and 4.
I apologize. I think my point was missed. People spend so much energy and time arguing about which class does more damage and such. When just 2 levels in warlock (obviously only if multiclassing is “turned on”) does more consistent damage than any of them in the tiers of play 3 and 4.
Fire Bolt from a sorcerer with a Fire-based draconic lineage will do more damage (a sorcerer's Cha modifier will outshine most other classes' Cha mod+1d6 at tier 3+), likely more consistently (not everyone can afford a high Cha bonus) although at higher levels that tends to become a moot point, and doesn't require concentration on a spell you can cast only twice per long rest (so arguably you get use out of it for two combats per long rest) with those 2 warlock levels, and of course it leaves you free to cast another spell on top of your cantrip.
No offense to anyone interested in arguing about which class does more damage, but that's kind of a silly question. That said, while certainly good, a 2-level dip Eldritch Blast is not giving you the most consistent damage regardless of class and comes at a pretty meaningful cost (delaying your highest level spell slots by two levels for most of your career if you're a full caster, for instance).
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I apologize. I think my point was missed. People spend so much energy and time arguing about which class does more damage and such. When just 2 levels in warlock (obviously only if multiclassing is “turned on”) does more consistent damage than any of them in the tiers of play 3 and 4.
Fire Bolt from a sorcerer with a Fire-based draconic lineage will do more damage (a sorcerer's Cha modifier will outshine most other classes' Cha mod+1d6 at tier 3+), likely more consistently (not everyone can afford a high Cha bonus) although at higher levels that tends to become a moot point, and doesn't require concentration on a spell you can cast only twice per long rest (so arguably you get use out of it for two combats per long rest) with those 2 warlock levels, and of course it leaves you free to cast another spell on top of your cantrip.
No offense to anyone interested in arguing about which class does more damage, but that's kind of a silly question. That said, while certainly good, a 2-level dip Eldritch Blast is not giving you the most consistent damage regardless of class and comes at a pretty meaningful cost (delaying your highest level spell slots by two levels for most of your career if you're a full caster, for instance).
How about for a martial class? Especially one that puts a little into charisma? (d10 + d6 + charisma mod)*3 seems good for a mostly paladin or fighter around level 14.
I apologize. I think my point was missed. People spend so much energy and time arguing about which class does more damage and such. When just 2 levels in warlock (obviously only if multiclassing is “turned on”) does more consistent damage than any of them in the tiers of play 3 and 4.
Fire Bolt from a sorcerer with a Fire-based draconic lineage will do more damage (a sorcerer's Cha modifier will outshine most other classes' Cha mod+1d6 at tier 3+), likely more consistently (not everyone can afford a high Cha bonus) although at higher levels that tends to become a moot point, and doesn't require concentration on a spell you can cast only twice per long rest (so arguably you get use out of it for two combats per long rest) with those 2 warlock levels, and of course it leaves you free to cast another spell on top of your cantrip.
No offense to anyone interested in arguing about which class does more damage, but that's kind of a silly question. That said, while certainly good, a 2-level dip Eldritch Blast is not giving you the most consistent damage regardless of class and comes at a pretty meaningful cost (delaying your highest level spell slots by two levels for most of your career if you're a full caster, for instance).
How about for a martial class? Especially one that puts a little into charisma? (d10 + d6 + charisma mod)*3 seems good for a mostly paladin or fighter around level 14.
Most of the reason I brought up Fire Bolt is that it's easy to compare - both are cantrips and they have the same range. Comparing martial (or any non full caster class) options becomes terribly situational. When you're saying "does more consistent damage", do you mean "does consistently more damage" or "more consistently does damage" or something in between? Because depending on that, we might have to consider how consistently rogues can make sneak attacks, for instance, or how consistently AoOs happen for melee characters, or how often melee characters can get multiple attacks per turn, etc. What also matters, certainly by tier 3+, is gear. You can expect some pretty potent magical items by then, but what's available still depends on the DM.
But keeping it simple, a lvl 14 fighter with Bracers of Archery, a bog standard longbow he's been using since lvl 1 to shoot bog standard arrows, and a Dex mod of +5 does (1d8+7)x3 per round, for an average of 34.5 points. I think most lvl 14 dedicated archery fighters will top that, in terms of gear and stats, and your hypothetical warlock 2 / fighter 12 would need a 16 in Cha to get past that.
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Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast in any class that has decent Charisma (Warlock, Sorcerer, Bard, Paladin, Swashbuckler Rogue) is a potent combination doing basically 1D10+5 force damage per five levels. As a ranged attack that doesn't require any other investment that is nice. Hex adds D6 necrotic per hit so long as you can maintain it.
That's 14/28/42/56 average as it scales (if you hit), and with a chance to crit every time you roll.
It is pretty strong, yes. My general observation of Warlocks is that Eldritch Blast, invocations, and pacts, make them less equipment dependent than other Classes.
A Ranger/Vengeance Paladin (dexterity) with a longbow and Hunter's Mark can do 1D8+5+D6/2D8+10+2D6 per 5 up to level 10. That's 13/26, which is comparable, and over 10 they have other abilities that kick in.
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Instead of arguing about whether or not rangers deal “as much” or “comparable” damage as other martial classes, can we instead all band together and complain about how much damage you can do with two levels in warlock using only eldritch blast and hex? THAT should be the real thing that is discussed so much.
Besides, rangers deal just as much damage as other martial classes, and in some instances more damage than other martial classes.
Two levels of warlock? In one round with hex and EB, assuming you hit and have Agonizing Blast, you deal 1d10+3+1d6 with 16 Charisma. An average of 13 dmg to a single target. A Raging barb with a greatsword at level 2, and at least 16 Strength deals 2d6+5, or an average of 13 dmg, which is the same. A fighter with the same Strength, weapon and using Action Surge can deal an average of 22 dmg in one round, provided they hit both times, and a Wizard casting Burning Hands can deal an average of 12 dmg to however many people are in their range, so long as the creatures fail their save.
My point is, 13 average dmg is not that much. Hell, a ranger with dueling, Hunter's Mark and 16 Strength can deal more, clocking in at 15 average dmg. If we're talking about multiclassing into warlock after quite a few levels in any class, that I can understand, but many other class combos pump out more damage in a single round.
(I only specified it once, but the averages I used were for level two characters)
Sorry. I’m specifically talking about tiers 3 and 4.
Sorry, but that’s not “with two levels of Warlock” then. It’s two levels of warlock + whatever level you took in other classes, and those two levels of warlock delay your high level abilities in those other classes (and block levels 19-20, of course). It’s good, but hardly broken. Doing away with class levels in many instances is also in great part what makes 5E the best edition by far for making multiclassing viable.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I apologize. I think my point was missed.
People spend so much energy and time arguing about which class does more damage and such. When just 2 levels in warlock (obviously only if multiclassing is “turned on”) does more consistent damage than any of them in the tiers of play 3 and 4.
Fire Bolt from a sorcerer with a Fire-based draconic lineage will do more damage (a sorcerer's Cha modifier will outshine most other classes' Cha mod+1d6 at tier 3+), likely more consistently (not everyone can afford a high Cha bonus) although at higher levels that tends to become a moot point, and doesn't require concentration on a spell you can cast only twice per long rest (so arguably you get use out of it for two combats per long rest) with those 2 warlock levels, and of course it leaves you free to cast another spell on top of your cantrip.
No offense to anyone interested in arguing about which class does more damage, but that's kind of a silly question. That said, while certainly good, a 2-level dip Eldritch Blast is not giving you the most consistent damage regardless of class and comes at a pretty meaningful cost (delaying your highest level spell slots by two levels for most of your career if you're a full caster, for instance).
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
How about for a martial class? Especially one that puts a little into charisma? (d10 + d6 + charisma mod)*3 seems good for a mostly paladin or fighter around level 14.
Most of the reason I brought up Fire Bolt is that it's easy to compare - both are cantrips and they have the same range. Comparing martial (or any non full caster class) options becomes terribly situational. When you're saying "does more consistent damage", do you mean "does consistently more damage" or "more consistently does damage" or something in between? Because depending on that, we might have to consider how consistently rogues can make sneak attacks, for instance, or how consistently AoOs happen for melee characters, or how often melee characters can get multiple attacks per turn, etc. What also matters, certainly by tier 3+, is gear. You can expect some pretty potent magical items by then, but what's available still depends on the DM.
But keeping it simple, a lvl 14 fighter with Bracers of Archery, a bog standard longbow he's been using since lvl 1 to shoot bog standard arrows, and a Dex mod of +5 does (1d8+7)x3 per round, for an average of 34.5 points. I think most lvl 14 dedicated archery fighters will top that, in terms of gear and stats, and your hypothetical warlock 2 / fighter 12 would need a 16 in Cha to get past that.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast in any class that has decent Charisma (Warlock, Sorcerer, Bard, Paladin, Swashbuckler Rogue) is a potent combination doing basically 1D10+5 force damage per five levels. As a ranged attack that doesn't require any other investment that is nice. Hex adds D6 necrotic per hit so long as you can maintain it.
That's 14/28/42/56 average as it scales (if you hit), and with a chance to crit every time you roll.
It is pretty strong, yes. My general observation of Warlocks is that Eldritch Blast, invocations, and pacts, make them less equipment dependent than other Classes.
A Ranger/Vengeance Paladin (dexterity) with a longbow and Hunter's Mark can do 1D8+5+D6/2D8+10+2D6 per 5 up to level 10. That's 13/26, which is comparable, and over 10 they have other abilities that kick in.