They've changed the wording of the Arcane Trickster's Spell Thief ability in the 2024 Player's Handbook slightly that makes me question whether or not it lowkey got a huge buff. I can't find any determinate information anywhere about a couple things related to this class feature. -Firstly, it's clear that you can't steal the knowledge of a spell that an arcane trickster doesn't have spell slots for. But could they still use Spell Thief against a spell targeting them that is of a higher level than the rogue can cast, thereby potentially negating the spell without stealing it?
Now in the 2024 PHB the wording of the class ability is somewhat different, particularly regarding the number of uses, which brings me to my second point. In the PHB(2014) it states "Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest." In the PHB(2024) it states "Once you steal a spell with this feature, you can't use this feature again until you finish a long rest."
-If the first point is true; does that mean an AT could repeatedly use Spell Thief against higher level spells(which can't be 'stolen') targeting them, forcing a saving throw to successfully negate them or otherwise(effectively countering them), until a qualified spell is successfully stolen?
In my opinion, on top of it being changed to an intelligence saving throw only in 2024; if you interpret Spell Thief in this way it becomes incredibly useful vs historically being a niche class feature, and on par with other level 17 Rogue subclass features. A good way, possibly, to prevent an AT player from "abusing" it too much might be for the DM to avoid disclosing the level or name of a targeted spell being cast which could make the AT question where and when to use Spell Thief across encounters.
I think it's pretty unambiguous that you can still shut down the casting of the spell if it's a level higher than you can cast. That part is the same in the 2014 and 2024 rules.
The other thing...it does seem like, in a strict reading of the 2024 Rules As Written, that the once-per-long-rest limitation only applies to cases where you are actually stealing the spell, i.e. those where it's a level you can cast. This is particularly weird because the wording suggests that for a spell of a level you can cast, there's no option to just shut it down without stealing it. I have a hard time believing this was entirely intentional.
I have not run a game with a high-level Arcane Trickster PC before. If I did, I might want to tweak it so that you're making two separate choices: first, when a spell is cast, you choose whether to use your reaction to shut it down; second, if the save is failed and the spell is shut down, you choose whether to try to steal it. Your attempt to steal it succeeds or fails based on the spell's level, which you don't necessarily know when you make the attempt. Either way, you lose the ability to steal a spell (but not the ability to shut one down) until your next Long Rest.
Its weirdly redacted, fully depends on how you read the feature and the conditional on the spell level. It Should be fixed later because it can be interpreted in 2 ways:
1) used only "once" per Long Rest, and only if the spell fulfills the conditions (spell level you can cast), and they failed the ST. You retain the use if the opponent makes the ST. (use the reaction only if you can steal the spell).
2) used many times until you "steal a spell succesfully", negating (like evasion) the effects everytime they fail the ST, but only applying the "steal" if the spell is of a slot you can cast. In this case you retain the use not only if the opponent makes the ST, but also if the spell was not stealable. (Use the reaction until you steal a spell succesfully).
Haven't seen a direct opinion on this. Most people just assume the first interpretation.
Also, you can't steal reaction spells if they don't target you (ie steal counterspell only if it targets a spell you cast yourself).
PD: on further reading, the feature never stops you (in 2014 or 2024) from using it on any spell level, they inadvertedly or very intentionally changed the condition on when you stop having the ability to use the reaction and negate the spell effect (2014 -> only once, 2024 -> until you "steal" a spell). So its best/complete use is to steal a caster's ability to cast a spell, but now it acts as a "cuasi-evasion" option instead of a one-off. But you need to take this reaction before you roll your own ST (if the caster succeds on its save).
They've changed the wording of the Arcane Trickster's Spell Thief ability in the 2024 Player's Handbook slightly that makes me question whether or not it lowkey got a huge buff. I can't find any determinate information anywhere about a couple things related to this class feature.
-Firstly, it's clear that you can't steal the knowledge of a spell that an arcane trickster doesn't have spell slots for. But could they still use Spell Thief against a spell targeting them that is of a higher level than the rogue can cast, thereby potentially negating the spell without stealing it?
Now in the 2024 PHB the wording of the class ability is somewhat different, particularly regarding the number of uses, which brings me to my second point.
In the PHB(2014) it states "Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest."
In the PHB(2024) it states "Once you steal a spell with this feature, you can't use this feature again until you finish a long rest."
-If the first point is true; does that mean an AT could repeatedly use Spell Thief against higher level spells(which can't be 'stolen') targeting them, forcing a saving throw to successfully negate them or otherwise(effectively countering them), until a qualified spell is successfully stolen?
In my opinion, on top of it being changed to an intelligence saving throw only in 2024; if you interpret Spell Thief in this way it becomes incredibly useful vs historically being a niche class feature, and on par with other level 17 Rogue subclass features. A good way, possibly, to prevent an AT player from "abusing" it too much might be for the DM to avoid disclosing the level or name of a targeted spell being cast which could make the AT question where and when to use Spell Thief across encounters.
How would you rule these points as a DM?
I think it's pretty unambiguous that you can still shut down the casting of the spell if it's a level higher than you can cast. That part is the same in the 2014 and 2024 rules.
The other thing...it does seem like, in a strict reading of the 2024 Rules As Written, that the once-per-long-rest limitation only applies to cases where you are actually stealing the spell, i.e. those where it's a level you can cast. This is particularly weird because the wording suggests that for a spell of a level you can cast, there's no option to just shut it down without stealing it. I have a hard time believing this was entirely intentional.
I have not run a game with a high-level Arcane Trickster PC before. If I did, I might want to tweak it so that you're making two separate choices: first, when a spell is cast, you choose whether to use your reaction to shut it down; second, if the save is failed and the spell is shut down, you choose whether to try to steal it. Your attempt to steal it succeeds or fails based on the spell's level, which you don't necessarily know when you make the attempt. Either way, you lose the ability to steal a spell (but not the ability to shut one down) until your next Long Rest.
pronouns: he/she/they
Its weirdly redacted, fully depends on how you read the feature and the conditional on the spell level. It Should be fixed later because it can be interpreted in 2 ways:
1) used only "once" per Long Rest, and only if the spell fulfills the conditions (spell level you can cast), and they failed the ST. You retain the use if the opponent makes the ST. (use the reaction only if you can steal the spell).
2) used many times until you "steal a spell succesfully", negating (like evasion) the effects everytime they fail the ST, but only applying the "steal" if the spell is of a slot you can cast. In this case you retain the use not only if the opponent makes the ST, but also if the spell was not stealable. (Use the reaction until you steal a spell succesfully).
Haven't seen a direct opinion on this. Most people just assume the first interpretation.
Also, you can't steal reaction spells if they don't target you (ie steal counterspell only if it targets a spell you cast yourself).
PD: on further reading, the feature never stops you (in 2014 or 2024) from using it on any spell level, they inadvertedly or very intentionally changed the condition on when you stop having the ability to use the reaction and negate the spell effect (2014 -> only once, 2024 -> until you "steal" a spell). So its best/complete use is to steal a caster's ability to cast a spell, but now it acts as a "cuasi-evasion" option instead of a one-off. But you need to take this reaction before you roll your own ST (if the caster succeds on its save).