At 10th level, you become a master of locking down your enemies. Creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they move 5 feet or more while within your reach, and if you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, the target's speed is reduced to 0 until the end of the current turn.
My question is how this is intended to work with reach weapons. Say a hostile creature with a 5' reach charges the cavalier with the intent to attack the cavalier. The cavalier has a 10' reach. The cavalier gets an opportunity attack, hits, and the creature is then frozen in place, unable to attack the cavalier because there is still an empty square between them. Is that right? The creature then effectively loses their turn as there is nothing they can do. No save, just frozen in place. If this is correct, it seems way OP. A 20th level fighter could just get frozen every turn and be unable to attack the cavalier. Please tell me I'm wrong!
Yep, that's right. The creature would trigger 'Hold the Line' when it goes from being 10 ft of the Cavalier (within their reach) to within 5 ft (having moved 5ft with the Cavaliers reach).
Remember that the Cavalier still needs to hit with the attack and they only get one opportunity attack per round, assuming they haven't already used their reaction.
A 20th level fighter could just get frozen every turn and be unable to attack the cavalier.
D&D is not designed for PVP so this isn't a consideration in the design
A 20th level fighter could just get frozen every turn and be unable to attack the cavalier.
D&D is not designed for PVP so this isn't a consideration in the design
A 20th level fighter could be an NPC.
OP, most 20th level characters have ranged attack options themselves. If someone had their movement speed dropped to 0 they'd rely on other utility, mobility, or ranged options available to them. Magic items, spells, or even just a crossbow.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Yep, that's right. The creature would trigger 'Hold the Line' when it goes from being 10 ft of the Cavalier (within their reach) to within 5 ft (having moved 5ft with the Cavaliers reach).
Remember that the Cavalier still needs to hit with the attack and they only get one opportunity attack per round, assuming they haven't already used their reaction.
A 20th level fighter could just get frozen every turn and be unable to attack the cavalier.
D&D is not designed for PVP so this isn't a consideration in the design
At 10th level, you become a master of locking down your enemies. Creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they move 5 feet or more while within your reach, and if you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, the target's speed is reduced to 0 until the end of the current turn.
My question is how this is intended to work with reach weapons. Say a hostile creature with a 5' reach charges the cavalier with the intent to attack the cavalier. The cavalier has a 10' reach. The cavalier gets an opportunity attack, hits, and the creature is then frozen in place, unable to attack the cavalier because there is still an empty square between them. Is that right?
Seems not right to me, they way i understand Hold The Line, for creatures to provoke an opportunity attack from you they must move 5 feet / 1 square + while within your reach. To me moving 5 feet while within your reach means must already be inside and move 5+ feet to use Hold The Line,. Here's some possible scenarios;
Moving from 15 to 15 feet away (3 - 3 square) is not moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Moving from 15 to 10 feet away (3 - 2 square) is not moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Moving from 10 to 10 feet away (2 - 2 square) is moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Moving from 10 to 5 feet away (2 - 1 square) is moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Moving from 5 to 5 feet away (1 - 1 square) is moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Moving from 5 to 10 feet away (1 - 2 square) is moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Moving from 10 to 15 feet away (2 - 3 square) is moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Moving from 15 to 20 feet away (3 - 4 square) is not moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
A 20th level fighter could just get frozen every turn and be unable to attack the cavalier.
D&D is not designed for PVP so this isn't a consideration in the design
A 20th level fighter could be an NPC.
OP, most 20th level characters have ranged attack options themselves. If someone had their movement speed dropped to 0 they'd rely on other utility, mobility, or ranged options available to them. Magic items, spells, or even just a crossbow.
There are no official monsters with non-spellcaster levels and giving monsters class levels is a homebrew suggestion (that is recommended with caution as it disrupts CR). So again, not a design consideration.
At 10th level, you become a master of locking down your enemies. Creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they move 5 feet or more while within your reach, and if you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, the target's speed is reduced to 0 until the end of the current turn.
My question is how this is intended to work with reach weapons. Say a hostile creature with a 5' reach charges the cavalier with the intent to attack the cavalier. The cavalier has a 10' reach. The cavalier gets an opportunity attack, hits, and the creature is then frozen in place, unable to attack the cavalier because there is still an empty square between them. Is that right?
Seems not right to me, they way i understand Hold The Line, for creatures to provoke an opportunity attack from you they must move 5 feet / 1 square + while within your reach. To me moving while within your reach means must already be inside when it starts moving. Here's some possible scenarios;
Moving from 15 to 15 feet away (3 - 3 square) is not moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Moving from 15 to 10 feet away (3 - 2 square) is not moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Moving from 10 to 10 feet away (2 - 2 square) is moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Moving from 10 to 5 feet away (2 - 1 square) is moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Moving from 5 to 5 feet away (1 - 1 square) is moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Moving from 5 to 10 feet away (1 - 2 square) is moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Moving from 10 to 15 feet away (2 - 3 square) is moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Moving from 15 to 20 feet away (3 - 4 square) is not moving 5 feet/1 square while within your reach of 10 feet.
Ah, you raise a good point. Once the approaching creature has moved 5ft within the cavalier's reach, they'll be within 5ft of the cavalier (going from 10ft away to 5ft away) meaning the creature can now reach the cavalier. So while they may get their speed zero'd, they can still make the attack.
I was picturing the interaction differently in my head and getting the wrong answer.
Aren't opp attacks triggered before the actual movement occurs?
In this case, no, because the target must move at least 5ft. Normal opportunity attacks are because they are triggered by leaving your reach.
The order of a reaction's trigger and the reaction do not follow a consistent pattern and it depends on the specific reaction.
Regular Opportunity Attacks for example are triggered when a creature leaves your reach with their movement and the attack is resolved before the triggering movement. Thankfully this order is explicitly called out in the rule but this is not true for all reactions.
A counter example is the Opportunity Attack granted by the Polearm Master feat. It does not specify a particular order in the feat's text and if you try to resolve it in the same order as a regular Opportunity Attack then the attack will automatically miss because the creature is not yet in your reach. So the reaction attack granted by Polearm Master must be resolved after the triggering movement as otherwise it has no effect other than to waste the player's reaction.
So for Hold the Line I can see good arguments being made either way. Personally, I would resolve the attack from Hold the Line before the triggering movement just to be consistent with how Opportunity Attack in general are resolved.
The cavalier class 'hold the line' rule says that
At 10th level, you become a master of locking down your enemies. Creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they move 5 feet or more while within your reach, and if you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, the target's speed is reduced to 0 until the end of the current turn.
My question is how this is intended to work with reach weapons. Say a hostile creature with a 5' reach charges the cavalier with the intent to attack the cavalier. The cavalier has a 10' reach. The cavalier gets an opportunity attack, hits, and the creature is then frozen in place, unable to attack the cavalier because there is still an empty square between them. Is that right? The creature then effectively loses their turn as there is nothing they can do. No save, just frozen in place. If this is correct, it seems way OP. A 20th level fighter could just get frozen every turn and be unable to attack the cavalier. Please tell me I'm wrong!
Yep, that's right. The creature would trigger 'Hold the Line' when it goes from being 10 ft of the Cavalier (within their reach) to within 5 ft (having moved 5ft with the Cavaliers reach).
Remember that the Cavalier still needs to hit with the attack and they only get one opportunity attack per round, assuming they haven't already used their reaction.
D&D is not designed for PVP so this isn't a consideration in the design
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
A 20th level fighter could be an NPC.
OP, most 20th level characters have ranged attack options themselves. If someone had their movement speed dropped to 0 they'd rely on other utility, mobility, or ranged options available to them. Magic items, spells, or even just a crossbow.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Great, thanks for that
Seems not right to me, they way i understand Hold The Line, for creatures to provoke an opportunity attack from you they must move 5 feet / 1 square + while within your reach. To me moving 5 feet while within your reach means must already be inside and move 5+ feet to use Hold The Line,. Here's some possible scenarios;
There are no official monsters with non-spellcaster levels and giving monsters class levels is a homebrew suggestion (that is recommended with caution as it disrupts CR). So again, not a design consideration.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Ah, you raise a good point. Once the approaching creature has moved 5ft within the cavalier's reach, they'll be within 5ft of the cavalier (going from 10ft away to 5ft away) meaning the creature can now reach the cavalier. So while they may get their speed zero'd, they can still make the attack.
I was picturing the interaction differently in my head and getting the wrong answer.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Aren't opp attacks triggered before the actual movement occurs?
In this case, no, because the target must move at least 5ft. Normal opportunity attacks are because they are triggered by leaving your reach.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Combine it with Polearm master and get the attack when they enter reach too.
The order of a reaction's trigger and the reaction do not follow a consistent pattern and it depends on the specific reaction.
Regular Opportunity Attacks for example are triggered when a creature leaves your reach with their movement and the attack is resolved before the triggering movement. Thankfully this order is explicitly called out in the rule but this is not true for all reactions.
A counter example is the Opportunity Attack granted by the Polearm Master feat. It does not specify a particular order in the feat's text and if you try to resolve it in the same order as a regular Opportunity Attack then the attack will automatically miss because the creature is not yet in your reach. So the reaction attack granted by Polearm Master must be resolved after the triggering movement as otherwise it has no effect other than to waste the player's reaction.
So for Hold the Line I can see good arguments being made either way. Personally, I would resolve the attack from Hold the Line before the triggering movement just to be consistent with how Opportunity Attack in general are resolved.