Could someone point me to a thread that is specifically about small characters and space usage if one already exists?
I am playing a lightfoot halfling GOO-warlock with an advanced familiar. My GM and I decided to allow my familiar to occupy the same space as my character and continue to be fully effective on its turn. Most of the rules/forums/chats we have looked through references medium sized characters, but we could not find anything specific to small characters. Would you rule that a small character and a tiny creature would be allowed to effectively work together in the same 5' space?
The advantage of this is that the familiar can attack/help/etc.. and still move behind my halfling to up its AC with cover if/when the GM attacks it instead of the character. It has not felt overpowered, allows me to benefit from the class feature, and not feel as strangled by trying to under-utilize the familiar so as not to watch it get discorporated as often.
Most of the rulings toward medium creatures and tiny pets are that they cannot occupy the same space during combat if you exclude the mounted pet workaround.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Two creatures, two spaces. Size is irrelevant -- if it has a stat block, it gets its own space
Moving Around Other Creatures
You can move through a nonhostile creature’s space. In contrast, you can move through a hostile creature’s space only if the creature is at least two sizes larger or smaller than you. Remember that another creature’s space is difficult terrain for you.
Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can’t willingly end your move in its space.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Two creatures, two spaces. Size is irrelevant -- if it has a stat block, it gets its own space...
Not completely true. If we are referring to a "space" here as a 5' by 5’ square (by 5' cube) as you might find on a grid map, then you can fit more than one tiny creature in that space. Tiny creatures only occupy 2.5' by 2.5', so you can fit 4 on the ground of a regular space, and another 4 hovering above (see Creature Size in chapter 9 of the PHB).
That said, a Small creature occupies exactly the same amount of space as a Medium creature - an entire 5 by 5 square. So there is no room for any other creature (even a tiny one) to occupy the same space at the same time.
That said, a Small creature occupies exactly the same amount of space as a Medium creature - an entire 5 by 5 square. So there is no room for any other creature (even a tiny one) to occupy the same space at the same time.
This is exactly how I was reading it as well, but my GM decided to allow my character and the familiar to occupy the same space during combat as an extension of halfling nimbleness and the empathic connection to the familiar.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
This is exactly how I was reading it as well, but my GM decided to allow my character and the familiar to occupy the same space during combat as an extension of halfling nimbleness and the empathic connection to the familiar.
Not sure what you expect here tbh. RegentCorreon has provided the RAW answer (which is the main thing in this forum).
And from what you said in the OP it seems that you and your DM have worked out how it works (in combat at least), so what is your question? And have you considered looking in the DM forum (as this seems like more of an "how would you handle it" question)?
Could someone point me to a thread that is specifically about small characters and space usage if one already exists?
I am playing a lightfoot halfling GOO-warlock with an advanced familiar. My GM and I decided to allow my familiar to occupy the same space as my character and continue to be fully effective on its turn. Most of the rules/forums/chats we have looked through references medium sized characters, but we could not find anything specific to small characters. Would you rule that a small character and a tiny creature would be allowed to effectively work together in the same 5' space?
The advantage of this is that the familiar can attack/help/etc.. and still move behind my halfling to up its AC with cover if/when the GM attacks it instead of the character. It has not felt overpowered, allows me to benefit from the class feature, and not feel as strangled by trying to under-utilize the familiar so as not to watch it get discorporated as often.
Most of the rulings toward medium creatures and tiny pets are that they cannot occupy the same space during combat if you exclude the mounted pet workaround.
The DMG has rules for climbing onto an unwilling larger creature. While this has some defective rules - you're specifically told to get onto the larger creature before rolling to try to get onto the larger creature, and it refers only to "suitably large" opponents with no guidance for the DM on what that means - it genuinely has a lot more detail than the mounted combat rules do on handling having a creature cling to another.
In response to Thezzaruz: I was just interested in the RAW, not trying to affect our gaming tables's judgement. I was running under the assumption that small and medium occupied the same 5' space. All of the rules and threads we were looking through only spoke to medium creatures/PCs. It was an inquiry of interest, not of rules delegation.
I know the rule of thumb is that no matter the method, you or a creature cannot end movement in the space of another. This is only different for tiny or smaller.
Thank you Quindraco for aggregating the information.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
I know the rule of thumb is that no matter the method, you or a creature cannot end movement in the space of another. This is only different for tiny or smaller.
It is only the size of the space which is different between Tiny and Small/Medium creatures.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Could someone point me to a thread that is specifically about small characters and space usage if one already exists?
I am playing a lightfoot halfling GOO-warlock with an advanced familiar. My GM and I decided to allow my familiar to occupy the same space as my character and continue to be fully effective on its turn. Most of the rules/forums/chats we have looked through references medium sized characters, but we could not find anything specific to small characters. Would you rule that a small character and a tiny creature would be allowed to effectively work together in the same 5' space?
The advantage of this is that the familiar can attack/help/etc.. and still move behind my halfling to up its AC with cover if/when the GM attacks it instead of the character. It has not felt overpowered, allows me to benefit from the class feature, and not feel as strangled by trying to under-utilize the familiar so as not to watch it get discorporated as often.
Most of the rulings toward medium creatures and tiny pets are that they cannot occupy the same space during combat if you exclude the mounted pet workaround.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Two creatures, two spaces. Size is irrelevant -- if it has a stat block, it gets its own space
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Not completely true. If we are referring to a "space" here as a 5' by 5’ square (by 5' cube) as you might find on a grid map, then you can fit more than one tiny creature in that space. Tiny creatures only occupy 2.5' by 2.5', so you can fit 4 on the ground of a regular space, and another 4 hovering above (see Creature Size in chapter 9 of the PHB).
That said, a Small creature occupies exactly the same amount of space as a Medium creature - an entire 5 by 5 square. So there is no room for any other creature (even a tiny one) to occupy the same space at the same time.
This is exactly how I was reading it as well, but my GM decided to allow my character and the familiar to occupy the same space during combat as an extension of halfling nimbleness and the empathic connection to the familiar.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Not sure what you expect here tbh. RegentCorreon has provided the RAW answer (which is the main thing in this forum).
And from what you said in the OP it seems that you and your DM have worked out how it works (in combat at least), so what is your question? And have you considered looking in the DM forum (as this seems like more of an "how would you handle it" question)?
Small and Medium are the same size in terms of a creature's space. Tiny is actually smaller: you can fit 4 Tiny creatures into one standard (i.e. Small/Medium) space.
However, there are two ways of handling creature spaces, they are mutually exclusive, and we have no clarity on reconciling them. Welcome to 5E. The first way is that you can only share a space with a creature two or more sizes different from you. The second way is split across the PHB and DMG:
The mounted combat rules establish that with your GM's permission, your Tiny familiar can ride your Small character like a mount. You would, of course, qualify as an independent mount. The mounting rules seemingly allow two creatures to share a space with only one size difference, but even that is a constructed idea - it's not explicitly stated in the mounted combat rules. When you ride a horse, we don't even know where in its space you count as being for measuring purposes. It's all very confusing.
The DMG has rules for climbing onto an unwilling larger creature. While this has some defective rules - you're specifically told to get onto the larger creature before rolling to try to get onto the larger creature, and it refers only to "suitably large" opponents with no guidance for the DM on what that means - it genuinely has a lot more detail than the mounted combat rules do on handling having a creature cling to another.
In response to Thezzaruz: I was just interested in the RAW, not trying to affect our gaming tables's judgement. I was running under the assumption that small and medium occupied the same 5' space. All of the rules and threads we were looking through only spoke to medium creatures/PCs. It was an inquiry of interest, not of rules delegation.
I know the rule of thumb is that no matter the method, you or a creature cannot end movement in the space of another. This is only different for tiny or smaller.
Thank you Quindraco for aggregating the information.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
It is only the size of the space which is different between Tiny and Small/Medium creatures.