I have recently started playing a Barbarian, started at level 1 and am now a level 3 Path of the Zealot. Ive been having a lot of fun but on reading what comes next for the rest of the barbs 17 levels i cant help but feel underwhelmed. And i see alot of comments online that barbarians are pretty weak unless you multiclass them with a fighter or something of that nature. Do you guys think a barb is mechanically powerful up to level 20 or is it worth multi classing?
Thanks for reading, look forward to hearing your thoughts on the matter.
Well, zealot barbarians are basically immortal starting at level 15. The level 14 zealot feature prevents you from dying or falling unconcious as long as you are raging (even if at 0 HP and 3 failed death saves). The level 15 barb feature makes your rage not end early unless you choose to. A good combo.
I actually like the high level barbarian features (compared to most other classes). A +4 to STR and CON at level 20 isn't bad. You can get your HP to a ridiculous 285 and never fail a strength check again.
Personally , I think single class is better to play with if you start at an early level, multiclass builds just take more time to become stronger. Barbarians can’t be spellcasters anyway, and extra attacks don’t stack.
Zealot Barbarian is maybe the one Barbarian subclass that I feel is worth to take into higher levels. Rage Beyond Death is absurd especially when paired with Persistent Rage at 15. You can still die to things like Power Word: Kill or (even worse) Disintegrate, but that was always true. Most avenues of killing you are shut off while you're raging.
If you know you're going to level 20 as a Zealot, 16/4 Barbarian/x is what I would do. There is a strong case to pick up Fighter just for Second Wind so you can heal yourself above 0hp before your rage ends in a pinch. Plus fighting style, action surge, and all the goodies Fighters bring.
Any other Barbarian subclass and I would probably choose to multiclass at level 3 or 4. You get everything good about Barbarian in the first 3 levels.
Honestly after level 5 it just isn't worth it. I'd argue waiting a bunch of levels being weaker isn't worth what Zealot gives you There's a lot a barbarian can do with multiclassing, both with martials and casters (albeit, you do have to be a bit creative with your caster levels).
The following is my opinion on each class when it comes to multiclassing with barbarian past level 5
Artificer: Armorer is a great subclass if you want to defend the party. Infusions add a bit of utility which is nice too! Battle Smith seems good as a multi class on paper, but the defender will have too low HP at this point. Artillerist is meh and alchemist is a no-no
Bard: I could see some synergy with the swords bard subclass as well as maybe lore. This will mostly just give you utility though. This is doable but requires lot of work
Cleric: Some solid synergy here with the base class as healing is always nice to have to make yourself harder to kill. You'll want a high wisdom modifier though to get the most out of these features, if not, multiclassing cleric isn't good
Druid: Moon Druid for wild shape is nice and is an obvious pick, you'd get some good utility with spells. But other picks such as Spores (symbiotic entity is great if you can use it before initiative is rolled) are good too. Wildfire seems good on paper, but the spirit will quickly die to to low HP at this point.
Fighter: This class is an easy go to! Basically near any subclass works and you get a lot of combat power from it. Battlemaster I think is the best for multiclassing but echo knight, samurai, cavalier, rune knight, and psi warrior are all great too!
Monk: I could see an open hand dip be good, but that's about it. Not much here
Paladin: This one is great! Smite synergies extremely well with rage. Conquest, Vengeance, and Glory are the best ones to pick in my opinion, but any subclass works
Ranger: I could see Hunter (Colossus Slayer) and Swarmkeeper working, but not much else. As for spells, only utility ones will help
Rogue: If you use a finesse weapon, then reckless attack is great for triggering sneak attack, which means a lot of damage. Cunning action is also nice in combat
Sorcerer: This one is a lot better than it looks initially. It gives some great utility, as well as some combat stuff. If you don't rage in your first round, you could quicken a spell like mirror image and use an action on booming blade. A lot of subclasses give some nice things, but Draconic Sorcerer and Clockwork Soul (for armor of agathys via clockwork spells which you can use a shotgun spell slot to upcast) are the best Warlock: Good synergy with Hexblade and pact of the blade to get Eldritch Smite, and nice spells like armor of agathys
Wizard: A 2 level dip into war wizard or divination wizard is great for better saving throws, which you'll want at high level. Otherwise, it's just utility
Honestly, I sometimes feel like they need to tighten up the multiclass reqs a bit. I dunno, the way you see so many builds dip in and out of classes like it's a buffet doesn't appeal to me. But I digress. Personally, I do think a straight Barbarian progression is fine as long as you're comfortable with the role.
Barbarian, like Fighter, is very much a "hit things in the face" class. You're not going to be doing much outside of that, although with Tasha's rules you'll end up slightly ahead on skill profs, all other things being equal. At the very least, you want to stick it out until level 5. There's a significant power bump once any class crosses that threshold, so assuming you're expecting to put several more levels on this character, you'll want to hit that first. Now, after that things open up a little more. It is worth nothing that as a Zealot you get one free saving throw reroll per Rage at level 6, which will come in very handy for avoiding stuff like Hold Person that can drop you out of said rage. The next big milestone for Barbarians is at level 9; Brutal Critical gives you an extra weapon damage die on all critical hits, with meshes very well with using Reckless Attack to crit fish. You can really turn up the volume on your damage like this, and as a Zealot you're already doing good damage.
One thing to keep in mind before you think about committing to a full-on overhaul of class and build is how much longer your campaign is going to run for and how long it takes to level up. Aiming for one of the Fighter subclasses sounds good in theory, but keep in mind that it usually takes a lot longer to go from level 3 to 6 than it does to go from 1 to 3, and longer still to go from 5 to 8, and you might be on the last leg of the campaign by that point. My rule of thumb is if you're looking to invest more than 2 levels in a dip or starting class, it's best to save the multi-class build for a campaign that starts high enough to let you have all your core features from the gate, otherwise you can end up spending a lot of play time waiting for your build to come together.
TLDR: Sticking it out until you've hit level 5 in your first class is usually a good call, and after that Barbarian is still perfectly capable of smashing faces and taking names for the rest of the campaign. If you're cool focusing on that, then a pure Barbarian build will serve just fine. There's nothing wrong with multi-classing though, but it's wise to account for how long level progression is going to take and how long the campaign is going to last before you plan to invest a lot of levels to reach your desired build.
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Hey guys, hope everyone is doing well.
I have recently started playing a Barbarian, started at level 1 and am now a level 3 Path of the Zealot. Ive been having a lot of fun but on reading what comes next for the rest of the barbs 17 levels i cant help but feel underwhelmed. And i see alot of comments online that barbarians are pretty weak unless you multiclass them with a fighter or something of that nature. Do you guys think a barb is mechanically powerful up to level 20 or is it worth multi classing?
Thanks for reading, look forward to hearing your thoughts on the matter.
Well, zealot barbarians are basically immortal starting at level 15. The level 14 zealot feature prevents you from dying or falling unconcious as long as you are raging (even if at 0 HP and 3 failed death saves). The level 15 barb feature makes your rage not end early unless you choose to. A good combo.
I actually like the high level barbarian features (compared to most other classes). A +4 to STR and CON at level 20 isn't bad. You can get your HP to a ridiculous 285 and never fail a strength check again.
Personally , I think single class is better to play with if you start at an early level, multiclass builds just take more time to become stronger. Barbarians can’t be spellcasters anyway, and extra attacks don’t stack.
Zealot Barbarian is maybe the one Barbarian subclass that I feel is worth to take into higher levels. Rage Beyond Death is absurd especially when paired with Persistent Rage at 15. You can still die to things like Power Word: Kill or (even worse) Disintegrate, but that was always true. Most avenues of killing you are shut off while you're raging.
If you know you're going to level 20 as a Zealot, 16/4 Barbarian/x is what I would do. There is a strong case to pick up Fighter just for Second Wind so you can heal yourself above 0hp before your rage ends in a pinch. Plus fighting style, action surge, and all the goodies Fighters bring.
Any other Barbarian subclass and I would probably choose to multiclass at level 3 or 4. You get everything good about Barbarian in the first 3 levels.
Honestly after level 5 it just isn't worth it. I'd argue waiting a bunch of levels being weaker isn't worth what Zealot gives you
There's a lot a barbarian can do with multiclassing, both with martials and casters (albeit, you do have to be a bit creative with your caster levels).
The following is my opinion on each class when it comes to multiclassing with barbarian past level 5
Artificer: Armorer is a great subclass if you want to defend the party. Infusions add a bit of utility which is nice too! Battle Smith seems good as a multi class on paper, but the defender will have too low HP at this point. Artillerist is meh and alchemist is a no-no
Bard: I could see some synergy with the swords bard subclass as well as maybe lore. This will mostly just give you utility though. This is doable but requires lot of work
Cleric: Some solid synergy here with the base class as healing is always nice to have to make yourself harder to kill. You'll want a high wisdom modifier though to get the most out of these features, if not, multiclassing cleric isn't good
Druid: Moon Druid for wild shape is nice and is an obvious pick, you'd get some good utility with spells. But other picks such as Spores (symbiotic entity is great if you can use it before initiative is rolled) are good too. Wildfire seems good on paper, but the spirit will quickly die to to low HP at this point.
Fighter: This class is an easy go to! Basically near any subclass works and you get a lot of combat power from it. Battlemaster I think is the best for multiclassing but echo knight, samurai, cavalier, rune knight, and psi warrior are all great too!
Monk: I could see an open hand dip be good, but that's about it. Not much here
Paladin: This one is great! Smite synergies extremely well with rage. Conquest, Vengeance, and Glory are the best ones to pick in my opinion, but any subclass works
Ranger: I could see Hunter (Colossus Slayer) and Swarmkeeper working, but not much else. As for spells, only utility ones will help
Rogue: If you use a finesse weapon, then reckless attack is great for triggering sneak attack, which means a lot of damage. Cunning action is also nice in combat
Sorcerer: This one is a lot better than it looks initially. It gives some great utility, as well as some combat stuff. If you don't rage in your first round, you could quicken a spell like mirror image and use an action on booming blade. A lot of subclasses give some nice things, but Draconic Sorcerer and Clockwork Soul (for armor of agathys via clockwork spells which you can use a shotgun spell slot to upcast) are the best
Warlock: Good synergy with Hexblade and pact of the blade to get Eldritch Smite, and nice spells like armor of agathys
Wizard: A 2 level dip into war wizard or divination wizard is great for better saving throws, which you'll want at high level. Otherwise, it's just utility
Honestly, I sometimes feel like they need to tighten up the multiclass reqs a bit. I dunno, the way you see so many builds dip in and out of classes like it's a buffet doesn't appeal to me. But I digress. Personally, I do think a straight Barbarian progression is fine as long as you're comfortable with the role.
Barbarian, like Fighter, is very much a "hit things in the face" class. You're not going to be doing much outside of that, although with Tasha's rules you'll end up slightly ahead on skill profs, all other things being equal. At the very least, you want to stick it out until level 5. There's a significant power bump once any class crosses that threshold, so assuming you're expecting to put several more levels on this character, you'll want to hit that first. Now, after that things open up a little more. It is worth nothing that as a Zealot you get one free saving throw reroll per Rage at level 6, which will come in very handy for avoiding stuff like Hold Person that can drop you out of said rage. The next big milestone for Barbarians is at level 9; Brutal Critical gives you an extra weapon damage die on all critical hits, with meshes very well with using Reckless Attack to crit fish. You can really turn up the volume on your damage like this, and as a Zealot you're already doing good damage.
One thing to keep in mind before you think about committing to a full-on overhaul of class and build is how much longer your campaign is going to run for and how long it takes to level up. Aiming for one of the Fighter subclasses sounds good in theory, but keep in mind that it usually takes a lot longer to go from level 3 to 6 than it does to go from 1 to 3, and longer still to go from 5 to 8, and you might be on the last leg of the campaign by that point. My rule of thumb is if you're looking to invest more than 2 levels in a dip or starting class, it's best to save the multi-class build for a campaign that starts high enough to let you have all your core features from the gate, otherwise you can end up spending a lot of play time waiting for your build to come together.
TLDR: Sticking it out until you've hit level 5 in your first class is usually a good call, and after that Barbarian is still perfectly capable of smashing faces and taking names for the rest of the campaign. If you're cool focusing on that, then a pure Barbarian build will serve just fine. There's nothing wrong with multi-classing though, but it's wise to account for how long level progression is going to take and how long the campaign is going to last before you plan to invest a lot of levels to reach your desired build.