Hello I recently made a grappler, which I brought to his first game. Good at grappling and putting people prone, however my DM says I don't get advantage for attack rolls because I am prone as well with the person I am grappling. I looked thru forms and rules but I don't see anything concrete for my defense. I even explained about how i force them down with one hand and beat with the other. I just don't feel I am prone as well, and cant prove or show. Any help or suggestions will help.
Grappling someone does not impose the prone condition on you or the grappler. Also, having the grappled condition does not impose the prone condition. If you grapple someone and then shove them prone, it does not automatically impose the prone condition on you as well. Grappling someone, shoving them prone, then pounding on them with advantage seems like a pretty good strategy if you're looking to be a grappler.
Prone creature have disadvantage on attack rolls so they effectively dont have advantage but shoving a grappled creature prone doesn't make you drop prone.
Ok thanks eh. Sorry for leaving stuff out but yeah the shove to prone. Do you know where or how I can prove my point. Cause as of right now, I can grapple, then shove prone, but DM states I go prone as well because I'm grappling the creature and I don't get advantage on attacks against the creature who is grappled and prone.
DM's can make homebrew rules so if the DM rules that if a creature you're grappling goes prone then the grappler does as well unless they let go.
However there are no Rules as Written to support your DM stating that the grappler goes prone with the grappled creature. I play a grappler Rune Knight in a game right now and I've poured through forums and rules discussions on this and I don't think I've ever seen someone even ask if a grappler would go prone with a creature they're grappling. Almost all the strategies out there follow the same attempt you're trying to make of grappling the creature and pushing them prone so they can't get up and have disadvantage on melee while other combatants (including you) have advantage on melee to attack them.
So tell your DM that the rules do not support what they're saying and to show you the specific rule if they wish to stick with it or confirm that they are creating a house/homebrew rule. If they're creating a house or homebrew rule then I think you're well within reason to tell them you've built your character for grappling based on the rules as written and would like a chance to adjust your character's build as a result of their new homebrew rule.
Caveat: If you grapple a creature thats flying and it falls more than 10 feet as a result then unless you are able to fly and hold it and yourself up, you will fall and as per falling rules, you'll be prone after you hit the ground, together with the grappled creature.
Ok thanks eh. Sorry for leaving stuff out but yeah the shove to prone. Do you know where or how I can prove my point. Cause as of right now, I can grapple, then shove prone, but DM states I go prone as well because I'm grappling the creature and I don't get advantage on attacks against the creature who is grappled and prone.
It's hard to prove the absence of something. I would point to the grappled condition and point to the prone condition and just ask your DM where they are getting the idea that when you shove a grappled creature prone, you also become prone?
Ok thanks eh. Sorry for leaving stuff out but yeah the shove to prone. Do you know where or how I can prove my point. Cause as of right now, I can grapple, then shove prone, but DM states I go prone as well because I'm grappling the creature and I don't get advantage on attacks against the creature who is grappled and prone.
The closest i can find to support it is this Dev tweet you can show your DM;
@Elinoobinator Does grappling a prone target make you prone the same way the "pin" from grappler feat makes you both restrained
@JeremyECrawford You don't fall prone when grappling a prone target, unless you want to. The rule would tell you if you had to
I’ve seen a lot of people, including my DM, who thing grappling is wrestling, so the equate grappling with both opponents being prone.
Think of it this way. A 4 year old child is playing with a ball and it rolls into the street and they run after it. You, as an adult, grabs the child by the arm or collar of the shirt to stop them from running out and getting hit by a car. You are grappling the child. You have a hold of them with only one hand but they have the grapples condition (the child’s speed is zero). If you decide to push them to the ground and hold them there because they are fighting with you to get their ball, they are prone but you can still hold them down with one hand (probably best not to beat them though lol)
This is correct as it is Sage Advice. Henceforth this is the official ruling on the matter. OP, if your DM is using RAW then present this to them, showing that these are the rules.
If they make the DM decision to make it so you go prone, then present Thri-Kreens evidence to him. If that doesn't work then that is his home ruling and nothing else can be done about it.
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"Anyone can smith at the cosmic anvil, yet only I can forge a weapon as good as thee."
This is correct as it is Sage Advice. Henceforth this is the official ruling on the matter. OP, if your DM is using RAW then present this to them, showing that these are the rules.
If they make the DM decision to make it so you go prone, then present Thri-Kreens evidence to him. If that doesn't work then that is his home ruling and nothing else can be done about it.
I would add, if your DM still wants it so you are prone, the last (good) option would be ask if you can remake your character if you won’t have fun playing under their house rule.
The last (bad) option would be to leave the game. But I hope you can resolve the issue without this extreme measure.
Ok thanks eh. Sorry for leaving stuff out but yeah the shove to prone. Do you know where or how I can prove my point. Cause as of right now, I can grapple, then shove prone, but DM states I go prone as well because I'm grappling the creature and I don't get advantage on attacks against the creature who is grappled and prone.
I would point to this answer in the SAC. It is technically about the opposite side of it but the answer should cover your situation too. Coupled with the Crawford quote that @Plaguescarred linked to it quite clear how the rules are meant to work.
Say I grapple you, then I drop prone. Are we now prone together?
No. A creature you’re grappling isn’t knocked prone if you become prone. You’re now holding onto the creature from a prone position.
Hello I recently made a grappler, which I brought to his first game. Good at grappling and putting people prone, however my DM says I don't get advantage for attack rolls because I am prone as well with the person I am grappling. I looked thru forms and rules but I don't see anything concrete for my defense. I even explained about how i force them down with one hand and beat with the other. I just don't feel I am prone as well, and cant prove or show. Any help or suggestions will help.
I'm a strong half orc.
Regards.
Grappling someone does not impose the prone condition on you or the grappler. Also, having the grappled condition does not impose the prone condition. If you grapple someone and then shove them prone, it does not automatically impose the prone condition on you as well. Grappling someone, shoving them prone, then pounding on them with advantage seems like a pretty good strategy if you're looking to be a grappler.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Prone creature have disadvantage on attack rolls so they effectively dont have advantage but shoving a grappled creature prone doesn't make you drop prone.
Ok thanks eh. Sorry for leaving stuff out but yeah the shove to prone. Do you know where or how I can prove my point. Cause as of right now, I can grapple, then shove prone, but DM states I go prone as well because I'm grappling the creature and I don't get advantage on attacks against the creature who is grappled and prone.
DM's can make homebrew rules so if the DM rules that if a creature you're grappling goes prone then the grappler does as well unless they let go.
However there are no Rules as Written to support your DM stating that the grappler goes prone with the grappled creature. I play a grappler Rune Knight in a game right now and I've poured through forums and rules discussions on this and I don't think I've ever seen someone even ask if a grappler would go prone with a creature they're grappling. Almost all the strategies out there follow the same attempt you're trying to make of grappling the creature and pushing them prone so they can't get up and have disadvantage on melee while other combatants (including you) have advantage on melee to attack them.
So tell your DM that the rules do not support what they're saying and to show you the specific rule if they wish to stick with it or confirm that they are creating a house/homebrew rule. If they're creating a house or homebrew rule then I think you're well within reason to tell them you've built your character for grappling based on the rules as written and would like a chance to adjust your character's build as a result of their new homebrew rule.
Caveat: If you grapple a creature thats flying and it falls more than 10 feet as a result then unless you are able to fly and hold it and yourself up, you will fall and as per falling rules, you'll be prone after you hit the ground, together with the grappled creature.
It's hard to prove the absence of something. I would point to the grappled condition and point to the prone condition and just ask your DM where they are getting the idea that when you shove a grappled creature prone, you also become prone?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Awesome thanks a bunch for the help. Cheers
The closest i can find to support it is this Dev tweet you can show your DM;
I’ve seen a lot of people, including my DM, who thing grappling is wrestling, so the equate grappling with both opponents being prone.
Think of it this way. A 4 year old child is playing with a ball and it rolls into the street and they run after it. You, as an adult, grabs the child by the arm or collar of the shirt to stop them from running out and getting hit by a car. You are grappling the child. You have a hold of them with only one hand but they have the grapples condition (the child’s speed is zero). If you decide to push them to the ground and hold them there because they are fighting with you to get their ball, they are prone but you can still hold them down with one hand (probably best not to beat them though lol)
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
This is correct as it is Sage Advice. Henceforth this is the official ruling on the matter. OP, if your DM is using RAW then present this to them, showing that these are the rules.
If they make the DM decision to make it so you go prone, then present Thri-Kreens evidence to him. If that doesn't work then that is his home ruling and nothing else can be done about it.
"Anyone can smith at the cosmic anvil, yet only I can forge a weapon as good as thee."
My Homebrew Please click it, they have my family.
I would add, if your DM still wants it so you are prone, the last (good) option would be ask if you can remake your character if you won’t have fun playing under their house rule.
The last (bad) option would be to leave the game. But I hope you can resolve the issue without this extreme measure.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I would point to this answer in the SAC. It is technically about the opposite side of it but the answer should cover your situation too. Coupled with the Crawford quote that @Plaguescarred linked to it quite clear how the rules are meant to work.