My fighter/cleric took the magic initiate feat using the sorcerer spell list in order to pick up the shield reaction spell. From reading the feat description in the player's handbook, I was under the impression the spell could be used with spell slots. DnD Beyond shows that I can cast it with the feat's one cast per long rest, but it doesn't show as a prepared spell. Am I wrong to think it should show as a prepared spell?
Hopefully someone has the text. I remember a discussion that said the spells count as the selected class spell (sorcerer spell in this case) so you would need to take a level of sorcerer to use slots to cast it. That said this is the vague memory of someone on the internet so that might have been a houserule. If your dm allows you to use spell slots, you can always just tick the slot used box directly to override.
Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. You learn two cantrips of your choice from that class’s spell list.
In addition, choose one 1st-level spell to learn from that same list. Using this feat, you can cast the spell once at its lowest level, and you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again.
Your spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose: Charisma for bard, sorcerer, or warlock; Wisdom for cleric or druid; or Intelligence for wizard.
It looks to me like the 1st level spell can be cast a single time at 1st level per long rest. No crossover with existing spell slots.
Q: If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?
A: Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare. In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.
Uh huh. You use the feat to "learn" a single Sorcerer spell. You also gain the ability to cast it once per day. Now if you were also a Sorcerer then you could use that class' Spellcasting feature, which lets you cast any sorcerer spell you have learned using spell slots. Without that sorcerer class feature you only get the casting method listed in the feat.
The spell slots you have are class specific. They can only be used for spells belonging to that class.
If you multiclass into two separate classes that both have spell slots, this applies there too.
That's not true. Spell slots are not per-class. If you're a Wizard 10/Cleric 10, you can cast either class's spells from any of your spell slots, including upcasting any of them to 6th-9th level. You just max out at 5th level spells in either class.
The issue with Magic Initiate is that while you know the spell, the feat doesn't grant you the ability to cast it from a spell slot. Belonging to a class that has the relevant spell on its spell list does grant that ability, and that's true for multiclassed casters as well.
Thank you all for your help. I understand the how this works now. If I was the DM I would allow the use of spell slots to cast the spell anyway. The way I see it, if you can cast a spell using the feat then it is obviously prepared. Since spell slots are not class specific for multiclass characters, then they should not be class specific for feats.
The spellcasting feature for each class calls out that you must use your spell slots for spells of that class, for example: "The Cleric table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your cleric spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher."
This means that a fighter/cleric with magic initiate can only use spell slots to cast cleric spells.
...Unless you took Eldritch knight, then you use the multi-class rules, but you still can't use spell slots to cast spells not associated with one of you classes that you have casting levels in. So still no Sorcerer spells.
So, if you want to house-rule the way that you said and your DM is ok with it, that is fine, but not RAW.
Edit: Just to clarify, and correct misinformation in this thread, Spell slots gained from levels in your first casting class are class specific. If you take levels in a second class, you instead use the multiclass casting feature which uses a different set of rules which allow you to use spell slots to cast any of your spells from your casting classes with your multiclass spell slots. You still need levels in particular casting classes to cast spells associated with that class using slots though.
Spell slots are never specified towards a certain class. Learned spells and prepared spells are specified towards certain classes, but spell slots are never defined. If you look into multiclassing and certain feats, you'll learn that spell slots can be used towards learned or prepared spells no matter the class. The main issue is that the Magic Initiate feat does not specify that you can use spell slots for the learned spell unlike other feats such as Fey Touched or Artificer Initiate. However, magic initiate is an old feat compared to these other feats, and it's text is more vague. Considering the balance, even if the magic initiate feat spell can use spell slots, it is still considerably weaker than the Fey Touched feat. Id say that if your DM doesn't allow magic initiate to use spell slots, then build Fey Touched and watch your DM suffer, or leave the campaign because your DM is a dickhole.
Thank you all for your help. I understand the how this works now. If I was the DM I would allow the use of spell slots to cast the spell anyway. The way I see it, if you can cast a spell using the feat then it is obviously prepared. Since spell slots are not class specific for multiclass characters, then they should not be class specific for feats.
No they should not but a lot of the PHB feats suffer from rigid writing. WotC learned that lesson and the feats from Tasha's allows using your normal spell slots (you can't get Shield through them though IIRC). Unfortunately the designers aren't inclined to errata old feats (or class features or such) to match the power level of new ones they write.
Spell slots are never specified towards a certain class. Learned spells and prepared spells are specified towards certain classes, but spell slots are never defined. If you look into multiclassing and certain feats, you'll learn that spell slots can be used towards learned or prepared spells no matter the class. The main issue is that the Magic Initiate feat does not specify that you can use spell slots for the learned spell unlike other feats such as Fey Touched or Artificer Initiate. However, magic initiate is an old feat compared to these other feats, and it's text is more vague. Considering the balance, even if the magic initiate feat spell can use spell slots, it is still considerably weaker than the Fey Touched feat. Id say that if your DM doesn't allow magic initiate to use spell slots, then build Fey Touched and watch your DM suffer, or leave the campaign because your DM is a dickhole.
Spell slots are not specified. I hope that isn't what you think I said. The text of each spellcasting feature limits the use of slots "to cast your [cleric](or other spellcasting class) spells of 1st level and higher." Magic initiate provides no such indicator that you can use slots on them, as you point out when you mention the newer feats.
Spell slots are never specified towards a certain class. Learned spells and prepared spells are specified towards certain classes, but spell slots are never defined. If you look into multiclassing and certain feats, you'll learn that spell slots can be used towards learned or prepared spells no matter the class. The main issue is that the Magic Initiate feat does not specify that you can use spell slots for the learned spell unlike other feats such as Fey Touched or Artificer Initiate. However, magic initiate is an old feat compared to these other feats, and it's text is more vague. Considering the balance, even if the magic initiate feat spell can use spell slots, it is still considerably weaker than the Fey Touched feat. Id say that if your DM doesn't allow magic initiate to use spell slots, then build Fey Touched and watch your DM suffer, or leave the campaign because your DM is a dickhole.
Spell slots are not specified. I hope that isn't what you think I said. The text of each spellcasting feature limits the use of slots "to cast your [cleric](or other spellcasting class) spells of 1st level and higher." Magic initiate provides no such indicator that you can use slots on them, as you point out when you mention the newer feats.
That text doesn't specify that spell slots can't be used for other spells you know. The text just isn't specific enough to rule out all other possibilities
Spell slots are never specified towards a certain class. Learned spells and prepared spells are specified towards certain classes, but spell slots are never defined. If you look into multiclassing and certain feats, you'll learn that spell slots can be used towards learned or prepared spells no matter the class. The main issue is that the Magic Initiate feat does not specify that you can use spell slots for the learned spell unlike other feats such as Fey Touched or Artificer Initiate. However, magic initiate is an old feat compared to these other feats, and it's text is more vague. Considering the balance, even if the magic initiate feat spell can use spell slots, it is still considerably weaker than the Fey Touched feat. Id say that if your DM doesn't allow magic initiate to use spell slots, then build Fey Touched and watch your DM suffer, or leave the campaign because your DM is a dickhole.
Spell slots are not specified. I hope that isn't what you think I said. The text of each spellcasting feature limits the use of slots "to cast your [cleric](or other spellcasting class) spells of 1st level and higher." Magic initiate provides no such indicator that you can use slots on them, as you point out when you mention the newer feats.
That text doesn't specify that spell slots can't be used for other spells you know. The text just isn't specific enough to rule out all other possibilities
Unless you want to allow wizards to cast any spell in their spellbook, you have to treat the spellcasting rules as the limitation you've just been told they are. A wizard with Magic Initiate knows both the MI spell and every spell in their spellbook. Unless stopped by the rules of their own spellcasting, they can cast all of their known spells with any slot, and their preparation limit becomes meaningless.
The SAC strikes me as saying that if you are a wizard, and you pick magic initiate (wizard) then the spell you gained from the feat can also be cast using your regular wizard spell slots. This really doesn't give any additional functionality that you wouldn't get from adding the spell yourself the normal way. Don't get me wrong, it makes sure the feat does not artificially limit the ability to cast your own spells, but there is no special interpretation that grants additional casting functionality beyond that.
The SAC strikes me as saying that if you are a wizard, and you pick magic initiate (wizard) then the spell you gained from the feat can also be cast using your regular wizard spell slots. This really doesn't give any additional functionality that you wouldn't get from adding the spell yourself the normal way. Don't get me wrong, it makes sure the feat does not artificially limit the ability to cast your own spells, but there is no special interpretation that grants additional casting functionality beyond that.
The SAC has nothing to do with it. If you're a wizard and you pick MI (wizard), then you learn the spell, which by definition goes into your spellbook and can be prepared using your preparation rules. Any know-caster using Magic Initiate on their own class can do this, and wizards are the only prep-caster that can, because they're simultaneously know and prep, but it's fairly meaningless for other prep-casters, since all of them can prep any spell in their class list - only wizards are limited. That's why MI (own class) is particularly bad on clerics, druids, paladins, and artificers - none of them gain any benefit from the feat letting you "learn" the spell. It's also legit bad on wizards, because you could do the same thing by finding the spell in the world. It's only non-wizard know-casters who can use the feat to permanently have another spell on tap for casting, and they have to target their own class to do it.
Note that for AT and EK, per their errata, you can use MI(wizard) to let them pull this trick.
There is still a difference though. If you are casting the spell using the feat, then there are restrictions laid out in the feat. If you are casting the spell using your spell slots, the only difference is that you now have access to this spell you would not otherwise have access to. And of course if you care casting a spell that is not normally in your class' spell list, then you MUST cast it using the feat and not with your spell slots since you cannot cast it without using the feat.
RAW, spell slots themselves don’t tell you what you can or cannot spend them on. You can only spend them on what you’ve been told that you can. Each spellcasting class feature tells you that you can use your spell slots on the spells you gain through that feature. Some newer feats tell you that you can spend slots on spells. That is all I’m saying.
This is also why I think we will see an errata to the magic initiate feat to bring it in line with the wording of the newer fey-touched and shadow-touched, etc feats.
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"Not all those who wander are lost"
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My fighter/cleric took the magic initiate feat using the sorcerer spell list in order to pick up the shield reaction spell. From reading the feat description in the player's handbook, I was under the impression the spell could be used with spell slots. DnD Beyond shows that I can cast it with the feat's one cast per long rest, but it doesn't show as a prepared spell. Am I wrong to think it should show as a prepared spell?
Hopefully someone has the text. I remember a discussion that said the spells count as the selected class spell (sorcerer spell in this case) so you would need to take a level of sorcerer to use slots to cast it. That said this is the vague memory of someone on the internet so that might have been a houserule. If your dm allows you to use spell slots, you can always just tick the slot used box directly to override.
Let's have a look.
It looks to me like the 1st level spell can be cast a single time at 1st level per long rest. No crossover with existing spell slots.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Found the link:
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/68451/can-you-cast-a-magic-initiate-spell-using-spell-slots
According to Sage Advice:
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
Uh huh. You use the feat to "learn" a single Sorcerer spell. You also gain the ability to cast it once per day. Now if you were also a Sorcerer then you could use that class' Spellcasting feature, which lets you cast any sorcerer spell you have learned using spell slots. Without that sorcerer class feature you only get the casting method listed in the feat.
The spell slots you have are class specific. They can only be used for spells belonging to that class.
If you multiclass into two separate classes that both have spell slots, this applies there too.
Please disregard this. I was wrong.
Check out my Homebrew Magic Items
That's not true. Spell slots are not per-class. If you're a Wizard 10/Cleric 10, you can cast either class's spells from any of your spell slots, including upcasting any of them to 6th-9th level. You just max out at 5th level spells in either class.
The issue with Magic Initiate is that while you know the spell, the feat doesn't grant you the ability to cast it from a spell slot. Belonging to a class that has the relevant spell on its spell list does grant that ability, and that's true for multiclassed casters as well.
Thank you all for your help. I understand the how this works now. If I was the DM I would allow the use of spell slots to cast the spell anyway. The way I see it, if you can cast a spell using the feat then it is obviously prepared. Since spell slots are not class specific for multiclass characters, then they should not be class specific for feats.
The spellcasting feature for each class calls out that you must use your spell slots for spells of that class, for example: "The Cleric table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your cleric spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher."
This means that a fighter/cleric with magic initiate can only use spell slots to cast cleric spells.
...Unless you took Eldritch knight, then you use the multi-class rules, but you still can't use spell slots to cast spells not associated with one of you classes that you have casting levels in. So still no Sorcerer spells.
So, if you want to house-rule the way that you said and your DM is ok with it, that is fine, but not RAW.
Edit: Just to clarify, and correct misinformation in this thread, Spell slots gained from levels in your first casting class are class specific. If you take levels in a second class, you instead use the multiclass casting feature which uses a different set of rules which allow you to use spell slots to cast any of your spells from your casting classes with your multiclass spell slots. You still need levels in particular casting classes to cast spells associated with that class using slots though.
Spell slots are never specified towards a certain class. Learned spells and prepared spells are specified towards certain classes, but spell slots are never defined. If you look into multiclassing and certain feats, you'll learn that spell slots can be used towards learned or prepared spells no matter the class. The main issue is that the Magic Initiate feat does not specify that you can use spell slots for the learned spell unlike other feats such as Fey Touched or Artificer Initiate. However, magic initiate is an old feat compared to these other feats, and it's text is more vague. Considering the balance, even if the magic initiate feat spell can use spell slots, it is still considerably weaker than the Fey Touched feat. Id say that if your DM doesn't allow magic initiate to use spell slots, then build Fey Touched and watch your DM suffer, or leave the campaign because your DM is a dickhole.
No they should not but a lot of the PHB feats suffer from rigid writing. WotC learned that lesson and the feats from Tasha's allows using your normal spell slots (you can't get Shield through them though IIRC). Unfortunately the designers aren't inclined to errata old feats (or class features or such) to match the power level of new ones they write.
Spell slots are not specified. I hope that isn't what you think I said. The text of each spellcasting feature limits the use of slots "to cast your [cleric](or other spellcasting class) spells of 1st level and higher." Magic initiate provides no such indicator that you can use slots on them, as you point out when you mention the newer feats.
That text doesn't specify that spell slots can't be used for other spells you know. The text just isn't specific enough to rule out all other possibilities
Unless you want to allow wizards to cast any spell in their spellbook, you have to treat the spellcasting rules as the limitation you've just been told they are. A wizard with Magic Initiate knows both the MI spell and every spell in their spellbook. Unless stopped by the rules of their own spellcasting, they can cast all of their known spells with any slot, and their preparation limit becomes meaningless.
The SAC strikes me as saying that if you are a wizard, and you pick magic initiate (wizard) then the spell you gained from the feat can also be cast using your regular wizard spell slots. This really doesn't give any additional functionality that you wouldn't get from adding the spell yourself the normal way. Don't get me wrong, it makes sure the feat does not artificially limit the ability to cast your own spells, but there is no special interpretation that grants additional casting functionality beyond that.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
The SAC has nothing to do with it. If you're a wizard and you pick MI (wizard), then you learn the spell, which by definition goes into your spellbook and can be prepared using your preparation rules. Any know-caster using Magic Initiate on their own class can do this, and wizards are the only prep-caster that can, because they're simultaneously know and prep, but it's fairly meaningless for other prep-casters, since all of them can prep any spell in their class list - only wizards are limited. That's why MI (own class) is particularly bad on clerics, druids, paladins, and artificers - none of them gain any benefit from the feat letting you "learn" the spell. It's also legit bad on wizards, because you could do the same thing by finding the spell in the world. It's only non-wizard know-casters who can use the feat to permanently have another spell on tap for casting, and they have to target their own class to do it.
Note that for AT and EK, per their errata, you can use MI(wizard) to let them pull this trick.
There is still a difference though. If you are casting the spell using the feat, then there are restrictions laid out in the feat. If you are casting the spell using your spell slots, the only difference is that you now have access to this spell you would not otherwise have access to. And of course if you care casting a spell that is not normally in your class' spell list, then you MUST cast it using the feat and not with your spell slots since you cannot cast it without using the feat.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
RAW, spell slots themselves don’t tell you what you can or cannot spend them on. You can only spend them on what you’ve been told that you can. Each spellcasting class feature tells you that you can use your spell slots on the spells you gain through that feature. Some newer feats tell you that you can spend slots on spells. That is all I’m saying.
This is also why I think we will see an errata to the magic initiate feat to bring it in line with the wording of the newer fey-touched and shadow-touched, etc feats.
"Not all those who wander are lost"