Hi all! I have a concept for a Moon Knight/Rune Knight multiclass, conceptually similar to MtG's Runeclaw Bear:
I'm trying to suss out some rules interactions though. Most of my online investigation is wondering about the size change, but I'm more interested in the damage bonuses from the Giant's Might and/or enlarge/reduce.
First, let's look at Giant's Might, where the relevant part of the feature says:
Once on each of your turns, one of your attacks with a weapon or an unarmed strike can deal an extra 1d6 damage to a target on a hit.
So, the PC wild shapes into a brown bear, with a bite and a claw attack in its multiattack. I've found Sage Advice stuff that says that these melee weapon attacks don't count as unarmed strikes, but do they count as attacks with a weapon, as delineated by the feature? Can one of those bites or claws benefit from the +1d6 damage each turn? Or do they fall outside of either definition?
Next, enlargement. I've seen plenty saying that the spell's effects can apply to the wild shape form, but again, my focus is on the last bit:
The target's weapons also grow to match its new size. While these weapons are enlarged, the target's attacks with them deal 1d4 extra damage.
The druid enlarges, then wild shapes into a bear that is also enlarged. Therefore, its "weapons" are also enlarged, and get the +1d4 damamge, right?
If either/both of those work or don't work, please help me find the relevant rules that are applying in this circumstance to reach that conclusion. It's easy to say "as a DM, I would/n't allow it", but please back it up with RAW. Like I said, I've been poring through the PHB, Sage Advice, and other online discussion to piece this together myself, but I'm really struggling with this one.
I believe a bear's bite and claw attacks are considered natural weapons, which means that both enlarge/reduce and Giant's Might would apply their extra damage.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Things designated as weapons by the rules, including natural weapons, are indeed weapons. In contrast, unarmed strikes are not weapons. They are something you do with an unarmed part of your body.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
On the matter of Giant's Might working with Wildshape, just remember that it sets your size to large rather than grows you, so you don't grow an extra size category. BUT nothing about Giant's Might seems to indicate that you are casting a spell or doing something that requires hands or speaking. So you could be a tiny spider and suddenly transform into a 10x10x10ft large arachnid. Obviously you wouldn't gain any stat benefits beyond the +1D6/turn damage and ability to grapple Huge or smaller creatures, but it could do wonders thematically for terrifying people.
Imagine doing the spider trick and having a guy run terrified into the next room to tell everyone about the massive spider, then you bonus action end the Giant's Might and everyone comes into to see you reduced back to a tiny spider. Could totally mess with people.
On Enlarge/Reduce, there's some argument out there that the growing/shrinking only occurs at the start of the spell and since wildshape would adjust your size, the continued concentration on Enlarge/Reduce wouldn't carry over to grow you an additional size category in Wild Shape. HOWEVER, because the other magical effects carry over, you would still get the advantage on Strength checks, Giant Might's +1D6 to one hit/turn and Enlarge's +1d4 to all hits. The new Hilarity being that a tiny creature which transformed after activating Giant's Might and casting Enlarge, would have a particularly nasty attack damage for it's size.
Being a tiny critter turned large would be a fun source of shenanigans!
And if I can't carry over the enlarge size into my beast shape, that's okay. I'm more interested in having a bear with big, nasty, rune powered claws and teeth. :)
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Hi all! I have a concept for a Moon Knight/Rune Knight multiclass, conceptually similar to MtG's Runeclaw Bear:
I'm trying to suss out some rules interactions though. Most of my online investigation is wondering about the size change, but I'm more interested in the damage bonuses from the Giant's Might and/or enlarge/reduce.
First, let's look at Giant's Might, where the relevant part of the feature says:
So, the PC wild shapes into a brown bear, with a bite and a claw attack in its multiattack. I've found Sage Advice stuff that says that these melee weapon attacks don't count as unarmed strikes, but do they count as attacks with a weapon, as delineated by the feature? Can one of those bites or claws benefit from the +1d6 damage each turn? Or do they fall outside of either definition?
Next, enlargement. I've seen plenty saying that the spell's effects can apply to the wild shape form, but again, my focus is on the last bit:
The druid enlarges, then wild shapes into a bear that is also enlarged. Therefore, its "weapons" are also enlarged, and get the +1d4 damamge, right?
If either/both of those work or don't work, please help me find the relevant rules that are applying in this circumstance to reach that conclusion. It's easy to say "as a DM, I would/n't allow it", but please back it up with RAW. Like I said, I've been poring through the PHB, Sage Advice, and other online discussion to piece this together myself, but I'm really struggling with this one.
Help me, rules lawyers! You're my only hope! :D
I believe a bear's bite and claw attacks are considered natural weapons, which means that both enlarge/reduce and Giant's Might would apply their extra damage.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Great! Can you help me find the rules/sage advice that say natural weapons count as weapons, aside from the word used in the name?
Here ya go!
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Perfect! I don't know why that's been so hard for me to find.
On the matter of Giant's Might working with Wildshape, just remember that it sets your size to large rather than grows you, so you don't grow an extra size category. BUT nothing about Giant's Might seems to indicate that you are casting a spell or doing something that requires hands or speaking. So you could be a tiny spider and suddenly transform into a 10x10x10ft large arachnid. Obviously you wouldn't gain any stat benefits beyond the +1D6/turn damage and ability to grapple Huge or smaller creatures, but it could do wonders thematically for terrifying people.
Imagine doing the spider trick and having a guy run terrified into the next room to tell everyone about the massive spider, then you bonus action end the Giant's Might and everyone comes into to see you reduced back to a tiny spider. Could totally mess with people.
On Enlarge/Reduce, there's some argument out there that the growing/shrinking only occurs at the start of the spell and since wildshape would adjust your size, the continued concentration on Enlarge/Reduce wouldn't carry over to grow you an additional size category in Wild Shape. HOWEVER, because the other magical effects carry over, you would still get the advantage on Strength checks, Giant Might's +1D6 to one hit/turn and Enlarge's +1d4 to all hits. The new Hilarity being that a tiny creature which transformed after activating Giant's Might and casting Enlarge, would have a particularly nasty attack damage for it's size.
Being a tiny critter turned large would be a fun source of shenanigans!
And if I can't carry over the enlarge size into my beast shape, that's okay. I'm more interested in having a bear with big, nasty, rune powered claws and teeth. :)