Items like Tome of Clear Thought are pretty powerful, given that they not only increase an ability score but also the maximum for that ability score. Could a character benefit from the same type of Tome or Manual more than once and if yes, how often?
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They can benefit as many times as they find one. But typically, reading one makes it in-usable for 100 years, so they’d need to keep finding new copies, at least generally. An elf (for example) could theoretically wait it out and read the same book a few times.
I feel like I saw somewhere there’s a hard cap on ability scores at 30, but I can’t find the rule just now.
The general rule is that you cannot apply the same game feature (spell, ability etc.) more than once unless it says otherwise, though whether this actually applies to the tome is a little unclear.
For reference this principle is mentioned under Combining Magical Effects for casting a spell in the basic rules, and also more generally in the Dungeon Master's Guide for Combining Game Effects under Running the Game. There's also the mention under the Attunement rules in the basic rules that you can't attune to multiple copies of the same magic item, though this doesn't stop you using multiples of magic items that don't require attunement, so it doesn't necessarily apply, though you could think of "studied" magic items as a form of attunement.
I suspect the intention is that it should only be usable once; the tome contains the same information as the last time you read it, and there's no suggestion that each tome contains unique knowledge, so whether you read different tomes or wait a hundred years and read the same one again, I don't think you're supposed to gain another +2.
Of course ultimately it's up to your DM regardless of what the RAW might be, as you're not likely to obtain more than one tome without them even if you try crafting them (especially since you arguably can't craft something that contains knowledge you don't know).
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The way I've always understood it was that these were assumed to be so rare that the odds of you finding a single Tome are pretty low... they are Very Rare magic items, after all. Any DM who lets players find multiple Tomes of any kind, let alone multiples of the same Tome, is digging their own grave... that are prepping their players to be able to survive some kind of ridiculous homebrew God they want them to fight.
When it comes to Rarity of magic items, my general thought is that anything with a Rarity of "Very Rare" should be something where the players only have any serious odds of encountering one of that item within the timeline of a single adventure. Another might exist somewhere, but unless the player puts in an obscene amount of effort toward getting another one, they only ever see one. A Legendary Item is something where only one exists within the world, but a player character given enough money and time could eventually replicate one, if they really wanted to. And Artifacts are items where only a single one exists and there's no way for a mortal to replicate one or its effects.
The 100 year limit seems to imply that this can itself be used again. My current campaign (16th level) had lots of time travel and we found a way to use our tomes (we each had one by 14th level) a second time.
What would stop a long lived creature like an elf from reusing it through their whole life?
We always just assumed the tome disappeared/went away/teleported to someplace random and even if found by you again you could not re-read it for another 100 years.
The 100 year limit seems to imply that this can itself be used again. My current campaign (16th level) had lots of time travel and we found a way to use our tomes (we each had one by 14th level) a second time.
Obviously that's fine if your DM gave you them and set up the conditions for you all to do it, but it would make more sense if you had swapped books so you could each read a different one; otherwise if you read the same book twice, what new insight are you getting out of it?
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The 100 year limit seems to imply that this can itself be used again. My current campaign (16th level) had lots of time travel and we found a way to use our tomes (we each had one by 14th level) a second time.
Obviously that's fine if your DM gave you them and set up the conditions for you all to do it, but it would make more sense if you had swapped books so you could each read a different one; otherwise if you read the same book twice, what new insight are you getting out of it?
1) The tomes are magical. 2) Do you always memorize every single letter in a book the first time you read it? Do you gain perfect understanding of the subject the first time you read it?
Its magic so yes you absorb and use everything written.
Instead of the magic coming back after one hundred years the writers should have left it that the tomes teleport elsewhere in the prime material plane. That way Elves and other long lived creatures couldn't reuse it after a hundred years.
Don't all the tomes specify in their wording that they raise ability score caps to 22? I feel like the specific wording there limits how often one can benefit from tomes.
Don't all the tomes specify in their wording that they raise ability score caps to 22? I feel like the specific wording there limits how often one can benefit from tomes.
your Intelligence score increases by 2, as does your maximum for that score.
So it stacks with anything else that increases your Intelligence score maximum.
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Although the tombs and manuals are very rare items, they only give a +2 bonus which really isn't a lot compared to a Headband of Intellect (Int 19) which is uncommon and adds 11 intelligence to a score of 8. On the other hand, each book does add +2 to your max up to 30 versus other items like the headband which set your max score at 19 which cannot be changed with more magic items or ASIs.
As far as Adventures Leage, the tombs and manuals can easily be gained in AL by anyone using 20 DM service hours. As they do not require attunement the cap for these items is only set by the AL maximum magic item cap based on tier. So for AL at least, even if you have a bunch of them, you're capped on magic items based on your tier. And each use of one tome or manual does count as one magic item. Even if you use the same book twice that counts as two magic Items against your max item count.
Frankly, I recommend all DMs apply the AL maximum item count based on tier to their campaigns to avoid confusion, streamline fairness, and prevent overpowered characters.
The Tomes don’t take up an attunement slot, and they stack with ASI’s, whereas things like the Headband overwrite. A Headband can only give you a mod of +4; theoretically the Tomes can put your mod at +10.
Five tomes are required to get a +10. If you're tier 3 at level 16 playing in AL, that would be 5 of your 6 allowed magic items. If you're under level 11 you can't have more than three magic items anyways. This means at Lv 16 you can have only one other magic item of uncommon quality or higher. Why would anyone want five tomes over a magic weapon, magic armor, magic shield, or anything else actually useful at Lv 16 when you probably have good loot? The magic item cap is what prevents a person trying to get 30 in every stat with tomes and why I think every DM should use it.
The DM not handing out Tomes like penny candy and not allowing players to attempt to game the system with them prevents people from getting a 30 in every stat, although I’m not sure that has ever been a notable concern. A hard limit on the number of magic items a PC will be given just puts people in a box and seems more likely to force people to lean into optimized selections.
Five tomes are required to get a +10. If you're tier 3 at level 16 playing in AL, that would be 5 of your 6 allowed magic items. If you're under level 11 you can't have more than three magic items anyways. This means at Lv 16 you can have only one other magic item of uncommon quality or higher. Why would anyone want five tomes over a magic weapon, magic armor, magic shield, or anything else actually useful at Lv 16 when you probably have good loot? The magic item cap is what prevents a person trying to get 30 in every stat with tomes and why I think every DM should use it.
Just to clarify the rules from an Adventurers League perspective. A character can only ever benefit from one tome for a specific stat at a time. Characters are not allowed to use multiple copies of the same tome. The rule from the current version of the AL FAQ is cited below.
"ITEMS WITH PERSISTENT EFFECTS You can only benefit from a magic item that grants the same permanent benefit once (e.g., tome of understanding, some effects from a bag of beans, etc.). This guidance is retroactive. Further, items that bestowed a persistent effect (such as a manual of golems, wishes from luck blades, etc.) count against that character’s items carried for as long as they retain the benefit, even if the item is consumed. You can choose to abandon the effect (reverting the persistent benefit) to regain the carried slot. Once you revert a persistent benefit, you cannot gain that specific benefit again."
In addition, as mentioned, each tome or similar item counts as one of the permanent magic items allowed for each character. This is limited by tier and is intended to help keep characters a little more balanced across tiers no matter how many adventures they may have played. The permanent magic item limits for AL characters (that they are allowed to bring to an adventure) are Tier 1 (level 1-4) 1 item, Tier 2 (level 5-10) 3 items, Tier 3 (level 11-16) 6 items, Tier 4 (level 17-20) 10 items. Characters retain any other magic items acquired in a "bank" from which they can select the magic items to bring to any specific adventure.
P.S. These rules aren't relevant to anything except Adventurers League play. In all other cases, the number of tomes and similar items available in a campaign is entirely up to the DM.
Items like Tome of Clear Thought are pretty powerful, given that they not only increase an ability score but also the maximum for that ability score. Could a character benefit from the same type of Tome or Manual more than once and if yes, how often?
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They can benefit as many times as they find one. But typically, reading one makes it in-usable for 100 years, so they’d need to keep finding new copies, at least generally. An elf (for example) could theoretically wait it out and read the same book a few times.
I feel like I saw somewhere there’s a hard cap on ability scores at 30, but I can’t find the rule just now.
The general rule is that you cannot apply the same game feature (spell, ability etc.) more than once unless it says otherwise, though whether this actually applies to the tome is a little unclear.
For reference this principle is mentioned under Combining Magical Effects for casting a spell in the basic rules, and also more generally in the Dungeon Master's Guide for Combining Game Effects under Running the Game. There's also the mention under the Attunement rules in the basic rules that you can't attune to multiple copies of the same magic item, though this doesn't stop you using multiples of magic items that don't require attunement, so it doesn't necessarily apply, though you could think of "studied" magic items as a form of attunement.
I suspect the intention is that it should only be usable once; the tome contains the same information as the last time you read it, and there's no suggestion that each tome contains unique knowledge, so whether you read different tomes or wait a hundred years and read the same one again, I don't think you're supposed to gain another +2.
Of course ultimately it's up to your DM regardless of what the RAW might be, as you're not likely to obtain more than one tome without them even if you try crafting them (especially since you arguably can't craft something that contains knowledge you don't know).
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The way I've always understood it was that these were assumed to be so rare that the odds of you finding a single Tome are pretty low... they are Very Rare magic items, after all. Any DM who lets players find multiple Tomes of any kind, let alone multiples of the same Tome, is digging their own grave... that are prepping their players to be able to survive some kind of ridiculous homebrew God they want them to fight.
When it comes to Rarity of magic items, my general thought is that anything with a Rarity of "Very Rare" should be something where the players only have any serious odds of encountering one of that item within the timeline of a single adventure. Another might exist somewhere, but unless the player puts in an obscene amount of effort toward getting another one, they only ever see one. A Legendary Item is something where only one exists within the world, but a player character given enough money and time could eventually replicate one, if they really wanted to. And Artifacts are items where only a single one exists and there's no way for a mortal to replicate one or its effects.
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The 100 year limit seems to imply that this can itself be used again. My current campaign (16th level) had lots of time travel and we found a way to use our tomes (we each had one by 14th level) a second time.
What would stop a long lived creature like an elf from reusing it through their whole life?
We always just assumed the tome disappeared/went away/teleported to someplace random and even if found by you again you could not re-read it for another 100 years.
Obviously that's fine if your DM gave you them and set up the conditions for you all to do it, but it would make more sense if you had swapped books so you could each read a different one; otherwise if you read the same book twice, what new insight are you getting out of it?
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
1) The tomes are magical. 2) Do you always memorize every single letter in a book the first time you read it? Do you gain perfect understanding of the subject the first time you read it?
Its magic so yes you absorb and use everything written.
Instead of the magic coming back after one hundred years the writers should have left it that the tomes teleport elsewhere in the prime material plane. That way Elves and other long lived creatures couldn't reuse it after a hundred years.
Don't all the tomes specify in their wording that they raise ability score caps to 22? I feel like the specific wording there limits how often one can benefit from tomes.
It's more open ended than that, for example the tome of clear thought says:
So it stacks with anything else that increases your Intelligence score maximum.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I stand corrected.
Although the tombs and manuals are very rare items, they only give a +2 bonus which really isn't a lot compared to a Headband of Intellect (Int 19) which is uncommon and adds 11 intelligence to a score of 8. On the other hand, each book does add +2 to your max up to 30 versus other items like the headband which set your max score at 19 which cannot be changed with more magic items or ASIs.
As far as Adventures Leage, the tombs and manuals can easily be gained in AL by anyone using 20 DM service hours. As they do not require attunement the cap for these items is only set by the AL maximum magic item cap based on tier. So for AL at least, even if you have a bunch of them, you're capped on magic items based on your tier. And each use of one tome or manual does count as one magic item. Even if you use the same book twice that counts as two magic Items against your max item count.
Frankly, I recommend all DMs apply the AL maximum item count based on tier to their campaigns to avoid confusion, streamline fairness, and prevent overpowered characters.
The Tomes don’t take up an attunement slot, and they stack with ASI’s, whereas things like the Headband overwrite. A Headband can only give you a mod of +4; theoretically the Tomes can put your mod at +10.
Five tomes are required to get a +10. If you're tier 3 at level 16 playing in AL, that would be 5 of your 6 allowed magic items. If you're under level 11 you can't have more than three magic items anyways. This means at Lv 16 you can have only one other magic item of uncommon quality or higher. Why would anyone want five tomes over a magic weapon, magic armor, magic shield, or anything else actually useful at Lv 16 when you probably have good loot? The magic item cap is what prevents a person trying to get 30 in every stat with tomes and why I think every DM should use it.
The DM not handing out Tomes like penny candy and not allowing players to attempt to game the system with them prevents people from getting a 30 in every stat, although I’m not sure that has ever been a notable concern. A hard limit on the number of magic items a PC will be given just puts people in a box and seems more likely to force people to lean into optimized selections.
Just to clarify the rules from an Adventurers League perspective. A character can only ever benefit from one tome for a specific stat at a time. Characters are not allowed to use multiple copies of the same tome. The rule from the current version of the AL FAQ is cited below.
"ITEMS WITH PERSISTENT EFFECTS
You can only benefit from a magic item that grants the same permanent benefit once (e.g., tome of understanding, some effects from a bag of beans, etc.). This guidance is retroactive. Further, items that bestowed a persistent effect (such as a manual of golems, wishes from luck blades, etc.) count against that character’s items carried for as long as they retain the benefit, even if the item is consumed. You can choose to abandon the effect (reverting the persistent benefit) to regain the carried slot. Once you revert a persistent benefit, you cannot gain that specific benefit again."
In addition, as mentioned, each tome or similar item counts as one of the permanent magic items allowed for each character. This is limited by tier and is intended to help keep characters a little more balanced across tiers no matter how many adventures they may have played. The permanent magic item limits for AL characters (that they are allowed to bring to an adventure) are Tier 1 (level 1-4) 1 item, Tier 2 (level 5-10) 3 items, Tier 3 (level 11-16) 6 items, Tier 4 (level 17-20) 10 items. Characters retain any other magic items acquired in a "bank" from which they can select the magic items to bring to any specific adventure.
P.S. These rules aren't relevant to anything except Adventurers League play. In all other cases, the number of tomes and similar items available in a campaign is entirely up to the DM.
I play 90% adventures league and I didn't realize that so thanks. That actually helps a lot.