I'm new to dm'ing, so looking for some help on the Guidance cantrip. Please correct any of the comments I make below:
The cantrip lasts for a minute once cast, but can end as soon as the ability check is made. So it can end after 10 seconds that being the case. Or it can be interrupted, so can end before it can be used. The spell caster must be able to talk and have a free hand to gesture.
So, there's a locked door. Character A says they want to see if the door is locked. *Guidance* from the cleric. Skill check from DM. No, it's not locked. I'll see if it's trapped from Character B. *Guidance* from the cleric. Skill check from DM. Character C wants to know if the door is made of... *guidance* ... wood. Skill check from DM.
My question - how much guidance is too much guidance? Thanks in advance.
Honestly, that is how guidance is supposed to work. If there is time and opportunity, the cantrip allows a character to improve a skill check by 1d4. However, the key is time and opportunity.
For the examples you described, examining something, looking for traps, etc, the characters have the time and there isn't an issue with using guidance.
However, there are a lot of situations where it really doesn't work in my opinion ...
- initiative - guidance is applicable to initiative since it is a skill check. However, I do not allow characters to continually walk around muttering the cantrip to themselves so that at the moment a fight starts they happen to have guidance for the initiative roll. (Similarly, most of the time, I don't really let characters walk around muttering any spells 24/7 so that they just happen to have it available when something unexpected happens). This means that unless the party expects combat to start immediately for other reasons and have a round to prepare, they won't be able to arrange to have guidance for initiative rolls.
- casting guidance can have consequences - guidance makes noise - it isn't silent (unless subtle) or whispered. This means that using guidance to check a door might be very likely to alert creatures on the other side of the door to your presence. If the characters want to give up any chance of surprise for a d4 on an ability check then that is a trade off they need to consider. Similarly, a quiet infiltration or any other stealthy approach is likely to be disrupted by spell casting since it makes noise (unless there is a lot of ambient noise already)
- casting guidance in social situations doesn't usually work - if you are involved in a conversation, casting a spell is noticeable. If a character is trying to persuade or deceive then casting a spell during this process, if it is noticed, is likely to result in at least disadvantage on the check if not outright failure just due to the suspicion that spell casting is being used to influence things.
- guidance doesn't usually work with stealth - again since guidance makes noise when cast, it is usually not possible to use it on a stealth check unless the character's want to risk being overheard and automatically failing the resulting stealth check.
The result is that guidance can have some very good applications ... survival, investigation, some perception checks ... but it can't be used for everything AND using guidance often has consequences because the verbal and somatic components can be noticed and have consequences.
However, I do not allow characters to continually walk around muttering the cantrip to themselves so that at the moment a fight starts they happen to have guidance for the initiative roll. (Similarly, most of the time, I don't really let characters walk around muttering any spells 24/7 so that they just happen to have it available when something unexpected happens).
This is an understandable ruling but I'm curious if you give your players any explanation for this beyond it just being a bit annoying and potentially acting out of character? After all, cantrips are all designed with the idea that they can be cast at will and cantrips with longer durations are typically restricted with the concentration mechanic or by some sort of "one active at a time" phrasing. Plus, as you've already pointed out, casting spells can have consequences such as making noise and/or raising suspicion so casting a few spells every minute of one's life regardless of the situation might not be the best decision and the in-game character surely knows this.
- guidance doesn't usually work with stealth - again since guidance makes noise when cast, it is usually not possible to use it on a stealth check unless the character's want to risk being overheard and automatically failing the resulting stealth check.
I appreciate the use of "usually" with this explanation because I feel like this is pretty situational and can work quite often (but not always). Remember that the guidance spell remains in effect for a full minute, so the attempt to Hide or to otherwise become stealthy can be initiated quite a bit after the cantrip was cast. Likewise, remember also that a stealth check persists and remains active for as long as you remain hidden and undiscovered. For metagame reasons you could wait to ask for the actual stealth roll at the moment that there is a relevant stealth vs perception contest currently happening, but the character could have initiated his stealthy activity long before such an encounter occurs. So, there are plenty of situations where guidance could easily be applied to a stealth check with no downside. Even during combat this should be possible since guidance could be cast before the character even moves into a position that's eligible for Hiding and then the Hide check could be handled as normal from there.
However, I do not allow characters to continually walk around muttering the cantrip to themselves so that at the moment a fight starts they happen to have guidance for the initiative roll. (Similarly, most of the time, I don't really let characters walk around muttering any spells 24/7 so that they just happen to have it available when something unexpected happens).
This is an understandable ruling but I'm curious if you give your players any explanation for this beyond it just being a bit annoying and potentially acting out of character? After all, cantrips are all designed with the idea that they can be cast at will and cantrips with longer durations are typically restricted with the concentration mechanic or by some sort of "one active at a time" phrasing. Plus, as you've already pointed out, casting spells can have consequences such as making noise and/or raising suspicion so casting a few spells every minute of one's life regardless of the situation might not be the best decision and the in-game character surely knows this.
I agree :) ... mechanically there really isn't a reason a character couldn't walk around muttering to themselves all the time keeping guidance up ... or maybe ritually casting detect magic continuously.
However, casting spells requires speaking usually, sometimes hand gestures or material interactions ... realistically, how many characters would really try to do this for a relatively small benefit that may or may not be necessary on any particular day. Do they keep muttering while brushing their teeth? How about when they are eating or drinking? Doesn't it get boring and repetitive? Has it been 45 seconds or a minute and 15 seconds since I last cast it? Presumably, the character realizes that concentration ran out so that they need to cast it again? However, then there is a gap out of every minute when the spell isn't running and they are re-casting it.
When I chat with most players regarding what it would really MEAN to try to continuously cast a cantrip every minute of every day in order to get a small benefit on an event that might or might not even happen on a specific day, most decide that it really doesn't make sense for their character. It is more of a metagame mechanic than something most characters would truly do in practice. In addition, speaking for 6 seconds every minute (or much longer if repeatedly trying to cast a ritual spell) might very well tire out their vocal chords, result in hand cramps or other side effects of a repeated action ... continuously casting guidance for 8 hours would be almost 500 repetitions of exactly the same hand movements in just one day. Repetitive Strain Injuries could easily be a thing in D&D too :) and perhaps a natural consequence of trying regular continuous casting.
So, from my perspective, it is most a realism and verisimilitude/role playing argument against continuous casting, not a mechanical one.
- guidance doesn't usually work with stealth - again since guidance makes noise when cast, it is usually not possible to use it on a stealth check unless the character's want to risk being overheard and automatically failing the resulting stealth check.
I appreciate the use of "usually" with this explanation because I feel like this is pretty situational and can work quite often (but not always). Remember that the guidance spell remains in effect for a full minute, so the attempt to Hide or to otherwise become stealthy can be initiated quite a bit after the cantrip was cast. Likewise, remember also that a stealth check persists and remains active for as long as you remain hidden and undiscovered. For metagame reasons you could wait to ask for the actual stealth roll at the moment that there is a relevant stealth vs perception contest currently happening, but the character could have initiated his stealthy activity long before such an encounter occurs. So, there are plenty of situations where guidance could easily be applied to a stealth check with no downside. Even during combat this should be possible since guidance could be cast before the character even moves into a position that's eligible for Hiding and then the Hide check could be handled as normal from there.
Again agreed (thus the usually :)). A party that is starting to sneak into somewhere could cast guidance before they first enter so that their first stealth roll might be affected. However, further applications, if they make additional stealth roles, will be circumstance dependent. However, even in this case, the spell only lasts a minute and the characters would have to weigh the risk of being overheard when casting vs the benefit received. Casting guidance on a quiet back street at night before they start to break into somewhere might not be the best idea since someone might overhear or be woken by the casting revealing the character presence that could have been avoided by skipping the d4 benefit from guidance.
In general, I find the circumstantial use of guidance to be a decent balance to its usefulness so that it can be used on many skill checks but not all.
If you're ever concerned about spamming Guidance , you can always rule that constantly concentrating on such divination spell makes you suffer one level of exhaustion.
Upping the DC in response to a player using Guidance is frankly a red flag on the DM, imo. The entire point of the spell is to allow players to be better at some skill checks; you shouldn't punish players by making the cantrip pick essentially wasted in response. Guidance does not make any results possible that you as the DM aren't going to allow to be possible on a successful check anyways, so this spell is not fundamentally changing how a situation can play out. Honestly, being so adverse to a 1d4 bonus to skill checks reads a bit like an adversarial DM.
Why should the party face higher DCs for doing the same task than they would have if they were less competent? Do you routinely boost the AC of monsters in response to the party having overall high attack bonuses?
We have a house rule that since guidance has a 1- minute duration, we only allow it to work on tasks that take 1-minute or less. (I understand how the duration works RAW, bear with me.)
The idea is, picking a lock or trying to remember something with a history check, yes, that can get a guidance. Navigating a boat for a day, foraging for food for an hour, that sort of thing, would require the caster to just stand there constantly guiding the person, which seems unreasonable. It’s really tamped down on guidance spamming without completely making the spell useless.
Also, probably worth noting there were some nerfs proposed in the playtest, so probably some changes coming in a couple months.
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I'm new to dm'ing, so looking for some help on the Guidance cantrip. Please correct any of the comments I make below:
The cantrip lasts for a minute once cast, but can end as soon as the ability check is made. So it can end after 10 seconds that being the case. Or it can be interrupted, so can end before it can be used. The spell caster must be able to talk and have a free hand to gesture.
So, there's a locked door. Character A says they want to see if the door is locked. *Guidance* from the cleric. Skill check from DM. No, it's not locked. I'll see if it's trapped from Character B. *Guidance* from the cleric. Skill check from DM. Character C wants to know if the door is made of... *guidance* ... wood. Skill check from DM.
My question - how much guidance is too much guidance? Thanks in advance.
Honestly, that is how guidance is supposed to work. If there is time and opportunity, the cantrip allows a character to improve a skill check by 1d4. However, the key is time and opportunity.
For the examples you described, examining something, looking for traps, etc, the characters have the time and there isn't an issue with using guidance.
However, there are a lot of situations where it really doesn't work in my opinion ...
- initiative - guidance is applicable to initiative since it is a skill check. However, I do not allow characters to continually walk around muttering the cantrip to themselves so that at the moment a fight starts they happen to have guidance for the initiative roll. (Similarly, most of the time, I don't really let characters walk around muttering any spells 24/7 so that they just happen to have it available when something unexpected happens). This means that unless the party expects combat to start immediately for other reasons and have a round to prepare, they won't be able to arrange to have guidance for initiative rolls.
- casting guidance can have consequences - guidance makes noise - it isn't silent (unless subtle) or whispered. This means that using guidance to check a door might be very likely to alert creatures on the other side of the door to your presence. If the characters want to give up any chance of surprise for a d4 on an ability check then that is a trade off they need to consider. Similarly, a quiet infiltration or any other stealthy approach is likely to be disrupted by spell casting since it makes noise (unless there is a lot of ambient noise already)
- casting guidance in social situations doesn't usually work - if you are involved in a conversation, casting a spell is noticeable. If a character is trying to persuade or deceive then casting a spell during this process, if it is noticed, is likely to result in at least disadvantage on the check if not outright failure just due to the suspicion that spell casting is being used to influence things.
- guidance doesn't usually work with stealth - again since guidance makes noise when cast, it is usually not possible to use it on a stealth check unless the character's want to risk being overheard and automatically failing the resulting stealth check.
The result is that guidance can have some very good applications ... survival, investigation, some perception checks ... but it can't be used for everything AND using guidance often has consequences because the verbal and somatic components can be noticed and have consequences.
This is an understandable ruling but I'm curious if you give your players any explanation for this beyond it just being a bit annoying and potentially acting out of character? After all, cantrips are all designed with the idea that they can be cast at will and cantrips with longer durations are typically restricted with the concentration mechanic or by some sort of "one active at a time" phrasing. Plus, as you've already pointed out, casting spells can have consequences such as making noise and/or raising suspicion so casting a few spells every minute of one's life regardless of the situation might not be the best decision and the in-game character surely knows this.
I appreciate the use of "usually" with this explanation because I feel like this is pretty situational and can work quite often (but not always). Remember that the guidance spell remains in effect for a full minute, so the attempt to Hide or to otherwise become stealthy can be initiated quite a bit after the cantrip was cast. Likewise, remember also that a stealth check persists and remains active for as long as you remain hidden and undiscovered. For metagame reasons you could wait to ask for the actual stealth roll at the moment that there is a relevant stealth vs perception contest currently happening, but the character could have initiated his stealthy activity long before such an encounter occurs. So, there are plenty of situations where guidance could easily be applied to a stealth check with no downside. Even during combat this should be possible since guidance could be cast before the character even moves into a position that's eligible for Hiding and then the Hide check could be handled as normal from there.
I agree :) ... mechanically there really isn't a reason a character couldn't walk around muttering to themselves all the time keeping guidance up ... or maybe ritually casting detect magic continuously.
However, casting spells requires speaking usually, sometimes hand gestures or material interactions ... realistically, how many characters would really try to do this for a relatively small benefit that may or may not be necessary on any particular day. Do they keep muttering while brushing their teeth? How about when they are eating or drinking? Doesn't it get boring and repetitive? Has it been 45 seconds or a minute and 15 seconds since I last cast it? Presumably, the character realizes that concentration ran out so that they need to cast it again? However, then there is a gap out of every minute when the spell isn't running and they are re-casting it.
When I chat with most players regarding what it would really MEAN to try to continuously cast a cantrip every minute of every day in order to get a small benefit on an event that might or might not even happen on a specific day, most decide that it really doesn't make sense for their character. It is more of a metagame mechanic than something most characters would truly do in practice. In addition, speaking for 6 seconds every minute (or much longer if repeatedly trying to cast a ritual spell) might very well tire out their vocal chords, result in hand cramps or other side effects of a repeated action ... continuously casting guidance for 8 hours would be almost 500 repetitions of exactly the same hand movements in just one day. Repetitive Strain Injuries could easily be a thing in D&D too :) and perhaps a natural consequence of trying regular continuous casting.
So, from my perspective, it is most a realism and verisimilitude/role playing argument against continuous casting, not a mechanical one.
Again agreed (thus the usually :)). A party that is starting to sneak into somewhere could cast guidance before they first enter so that their first stealth roll might be affected. However, further applications, if they make additional stealth roles, will be circumstance dependent. However, even in this case, the spell only lasts a minute and the characters would have to weigh the risk of being overheard when casting vs the benefit received. Casting guidance on a quiet back street at night before they start to break into somewhere might not be the best idea since someone might overhear or be woken by the casting revealing the character presence that could have been avoided by skipping the d4 benefit from guidance.
In general, I find the circumstantial use of guidance to be a decent balance to its usefulness so that it can be used on many skill checks but not all.
If you're ever concerned about spamming Guidance , you can always rule that constantly concentrating on such divination spell makes you suffer one level of exhaustion.
Upping the DC in response to a player using Guidance is frankly a red flag on the DM, imo. The entire point of the spell is to allow players to be better at some skill checks; you shouldn't punish players by making the cantrip pick essentially wasted in response. Guidance does not make any results possible that you as the DM aren't going to allow to be possible on a successful check anyways, so this spell is not fundamentally changing how a situation can play out. Honestly, being so adverse to a 1d4 bonus to skill checks reads a bit like an adversarial DM.
Why should the party face higher DCs for doing the same task than they would have if they were less competent? Do you routinely boost the AC of monsters in response to the party having overall high attack bonuses?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
We have a house rule that since guidance has a 1- minute duration, we only allow it to work on tasks that take 1-minute or less. (I understand how the duration works RAW, bear with me.)
The idea is, picking a lock or trying to remember something with a history check, yes, that can get a guidance. Navigating a boat for a day, foraging for food for an hour, that sort of thing, would require the caster to just stand there constantly guiding the person, which seems unreasonable. It’s really tamped down on guidance spamming without completely making the spell useless.
Also, probably worth noting there were some nerfs proposed in the playtest, so probably some changes coming in a couple months.