I have a question about one of the new cantrips, Elementalism. It lets you create clean water using the Beckon Water ability, which allows you to create a light mist or up to 1 cup of clean water in an open container or on a surface. However, the water evaporates after 1 minute. Does this mean you can essentially have "unlimited" drinking water, or is it undrinkable because it vanishes after a minute? If you drank it, would it disappear from inside your body?
Thanks for clearing up the confusion!
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A Sun Half Elf (and Half Human - Shuo Descent) that is just ✨Lost in the Sauce✨
I would clarify with your DM. Create water is a level 1 spell. Giving away one of its main benefits (making water to drink) in a cantrip may be a bit much for some. I’d probably allow it, though it would not be easy. People need much more than 1 cup of water per day, and you’ll need to do it for the whole party. So it may work in a pinch (which it seems you are in), but you’re going to be casting it a lot.
I think this was an intentional choice as people were generally taking the create water spell primarily as a survival option and not for any of the other myriad reasons to have a large volume of water at hand immediately. This cantrip gives people the ability to have the survivability at hand in a cantrip without the overhwelming utility of a bathtup full of water on hand at a moments notice.
Another of Elementalism's features says "You create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces in a 5-foot-square area." There's no indication of a duration, it just happens. So could you cast it repeatedly to erase tracks, or turn an inhabited room into a room coated in a lot of dust? (I actually had an idea pre-2024 for a new custom wizard spell which could create the appearance of an abandoned room by summoning a bunch of dust and cobwebs, and this cantrip looks like it could fit the bill.)
I understand it is drinking water, and that it doesn't evaporate once you drink it.
And yes, with that cantrip, you have the ability to create infinite water (cup by cup)
This is perfect for the current situation of the party right now haha, we messed up and now we ended up on a weird place in the Astral Planes XD
How weird? In the Astral Plane, you don't age and don't require food or drink. This may change once the 2024 DMG is released, but for now the 2014 version applies. This is also repeated in the Spelljammer book, but it divides the Astral Plane into the Astral Sea (can breathe, no aging, no need for food or water, etc) and Wildspace (basically outer space around a material plane world and typically airless; life sucks here).
Another of Elementalism's features says "You create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces in a 5-foot-square area." There's no indication of a duration, it just happens. So could you cast it repeatedly to erase tracks, or turn an inhabited room into a room coated in a lot of dust? (I actually had an idea pre-2024 for a new custom wizard spell which could create the appearance of an abandoned room by summoning a bunch of dust and cobwebs, and this cantrip looks like it could fit the bill.)
Since no other duration is given for this effect, Beckon Earth last as long as the spell effect—instantaneous—meaning you create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces that appears only for a moment and then disappears.
Elementalism: Beckon Earth. You create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces in a 5-foot-square area, or you cause a single word to appear in your handwriting in a patch of dirt or sand.
Another of Elementalism's features says "You create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces in a 5-foot-square area." There's no indication of a duration, it just happens. So could you cast it repeatedly to erase tracks, or turn an inhabited room into a room coated in a lot of dust? (I actually had an idea pre-2024 for a new custom wizard spell which could create the appearance of an abandoned room by summoning a bunch of dust and cobwebs, and this cantrip looks like it could fit the bill.)
Since no other duration is given for this effect, Beckon Earth last as long as the spell effect—instantaneous—meaning you create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces that appears only for a moment and then disappears.
Elementalism: Beckon Earth. You create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces in a 5-foot-square area, or you cause a single word to appear in your handwriting in a patch of dirt or sand.
Instantaneous is used for all spells that create permanent non-magical effects. So the dust would be real non-magical dust and would exist indefinitely.
Another of Elementalism's features says "You create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces in a 5-foot-square area." There's no indication of a duration, it just happens. So could you cast it repeatedly to erase tracks, or turn an inhabited room into a room coated in a lot of dust? (I actually had an idea pre-2024 for a new custom wizard spell which could create the appearance of an abandoned room by summoning a bunch of dust and cobwebs, and this cantrip looks like it could fit the bill.)
Since no other duration is given for this effect, Beckon Earth last as long as the spell effect—instantaneous—meaning you create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces that appears only for a moment and then disappears.
Elementalism: Beckon Earth. You create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces in a 5-foot-square area, or you cause a single word to appear in your handwriting in a patch of dirt or sand.
Instantaneous is used for all spells that create permanent non-magical effects. So the dust would be real non-magical dust and would exist indefinitely.
No permanent spell effect normally have a duration Until Dispelled. Elementalism duration is instantaneous unless noted otherwise. You can see effects it create that specifically last longer with other time span specified
Duration
A spell’s duration is the length of time the spell persists after it is cast. A duration typically takes one of the following forms:
Concentration. A duration that requires Concentration follows the Concentration rules (see the rules glossary).
Instantaneous. An instantaneous duration means the spell’s magic appears only for a moment and then disappears.
Time Span. A duration that provides a time span specifies how long the spell lasts in rounds, minutes, hours, or the like. For example, a Duration entry might say “1 minute,” meaning the spell ends after 1 minute has passed. While a time-span spell that you cast is ongoing, you can dismiss it (no action required) if you don’t have the Incapacitated condition.
Another of Elementalism's features says "You create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces in a 5-foot-square area." There's no indication of a duration, it just happens. So could you cast it repeatedly to erase tracks, or turn an inhabited room into a room coated in a lot of dust? (I actually had an idea pre-2024 for a new custom wizard spell which could create the appearance of an abandoned room by summoning a bunch of dust and cobwebs, and this cantrip looks like it could fit the bill.)
Since no other duration is given for this effect, Beckon Earth last as long as the spell effect—instantaneous—meaning you create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces that appears only for a moment and then disappears.
Elementalism: Beckon Earth. You create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces in a 5-foot-square area, or you cause a single word to appear in your handwriting in a patch of dirt or sand.
Instantaneous is used for all spells that create permanent non-magical effects. So the dust would be real non-magical dust and would exist indefinitely.
No permanent spell effect normally have a duration Until Dispelled. Elementalism duration is instantaneous unless noted otherwise. You can see effects it create that specifically last longer with other time span specified
Duration
A spell’s duration is the length of time the spell persists after it is cast. A duration typically takes one of the following forms:
Concentration. A duration that requires Concentration follows the Concentration rules (see the rules glossary).
Instantaneous. An instantaneous duration means the spell’s magic appears only for a moment and then disappears.
Time Span. A duration that provides a time span specifies how long the spell lasts in rounds, minutes, hours, or the like. For example, a Duration entry might say “1 minute,” meaning the spell ends after 1 minute has passed. While a time-span spell that you cast is ongoing, you can dismiss it (no action required) if you don’t have the Incapacitated condition.
Agilemind is correct, and your citation here actually supports them. The spell’s magic appears only for a moment. A shirt you clean with prestidigitation doesn’t immediately become dirty again after the spell’s instantaneous duration expires. In the same way that the damage done by a fire bolt remains after the spell’s duration, so too does the layer of dust created by elementalism. It’s completely mundane non-magical dust.
Prestigitation last an hour for any of its non-instantaneous effects. The exemple of cleaning isn't the best since dirt that went away don't come back. But spells that specifically create things with duration is different like some of Elementalism effect and Beckon Earth has no other duration..
Likewise, Color Spray isn't permanent, it's instantaneous so what it creates doesn't stay permanently.
A spell's duration is the length of time the spell persists after it is cast so for effect to last more than an instant, Instantaneous spell effect must say otherwise.
Prestigitation last an hour for any of its non-instantaneous effects. The exemple of cleaning isn't the best since dirt that went away don't come back.
The cleaning example is perfect actually, because your logic would require that the dirt come back. It’s an instantaneous effect that you’re saying should end immediately.
A spell's duration is the length of time the spell persists after it is cast so for effect to last more than an instant, Instantaneous spell effect must say otherwise.
This is obviously not true. Again, the damage dealt by fire bolt or the healing done by cure wounds doesn’t immediately go away.
Correct, and the water created by the former sticks around, just like the damage done by flame strike. The magic is gone; the effect of the magic remains.
The damage is the result of the spell outcome wether attack or saving throw, not what the spell originally create, most spell that deal damage with instantaneous duration only last an instant, it is literally the meaning of it
Clearly, some spells could have been better written to account for that.
See this Sage Advice for more on instantenous duration
Can you use dispel magic on the creations of a spell like animate dead or affect those creations with antimagic field?
Whenever you wonder whether a spell’s effects can be dispelled or suspended, you need to answer one question: is the spell’s duration instantaneous? If the answer is yes, there is nothing to dispel or suspend. Here’s why: the effects of an instantaneous spell are brought into being by magic, but the effects aren’t sustained by magic. The magic flares for a split second and then vanishes. For example, the instantaneous spell animate dead harnesses magical energy to turn a corpse or a pile of bones into an undead creature. That necromantic magic is present for an instant and is then gone. The resulting undead now exists without the magic’s help. Casting dispel magic on the creature can’t end its mockery of life, and the undead can wander into an antimagic field with no adverse effect.
Hello, I hope you're all doing well!
I have a question about one of the new cantrips, Elementalism. It lets you create clean water using the Beckon Water ability, which allows you to create a light mist or up to 1 cup of clean water in an open container or on a surface. However, the water evaporates after 1 minute. Does this mean you can essentially have "unlimited" drinking water, or is it undrinkable because it vanishes after a minute? If you drank it, would it disappear from inside your body?
Thanks for clearing up the confusion!
A Sun Half Elf (and Half Human - Shuo Descent) that is just ✨Lost in the Sauce✨
I understand it is drinking water, and that it doesn't evaporate once you drink it.
And yes, with that cantrip, you have the ability to create infinite water (cup by cup)
Thanks @tarodnet!
This is perfect for the current situation of the party right now haha, we messed up and now we ended up on a weird place in the Astral Planes XD
A Sun Half Elf (and Half Human - Shuo Descent) that is just ✨Lost in the Sauce✨
I would clarify with your DM. Create water is a level 1 spell. Giving away one of its main benefits (making water to drink) in a cantrip may be a bit much for some.
I’d probably allow it, though it would not be easy. People need much more than 1 cup of water per day, and you’ll need to do it for the whole party. So it may work in a pinch (which it seems you are in), but you’re going to be casting it a lot.
I think this was an intentional choice as people were generally taking the create water spell primarily as a survival option and not for any of the other myriad reasons to have a large volume of water at hand immediately. This cantrip gives people the ability to have the survivability at hand in a cantrip without the overhwelming utility of a bathtup full of water on hand at a moments notice.
"Giving away one of its main benefits (making water to drink) in a cantrip may be a bit much for some."
So the emotional status of people adhering to old rules should override RAW on the updated set?
That's a strange premise to base game rules on. Very feeling-based, not precisely logical.
Another of Elementalism's features says "You create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces in a 5-foot-square area." There's no indication of a duration, it just happens. So could you cast it repeatedly to erase tracks, or turn an inhabited room into a room coated in a lot of dust? (I actually had an idea pre-2024 for a new custom wizard spell which could create the appearance of an abandoned room by summoning a bunch of dust and cobwebs, and this cantrip looks like it could fit the bill.)
How weird? In the Astral Plane, you don't age and don't require food or drink. This may change once the 2024 DMG is released, but for now the 2014 version applies. This is also repeated in the Spelljammer book, but it divides the Astral Plane into the Astral Sea (can breathe, no aging, no need for food or water, etc) and Wildspace (basically outer space around a material plane world and typically airless; life sucks here).
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Since no other duration is given for this effect, Beckon Earth last as long as the spell effect—instantaneous—meaning you create a thin shroud of dust or sand that covers surfaces that appears only for a moment and then disappears.Instantaneous is used for all spells that create permanent non-magical effects. So the dust would be real non-magical dust and would exist indefinitely.
No permanent spell effect normally have a duration Until Dispelled. Elementalism duration is instantaneous unless noted otherwise. You can see effects it create that specifically last longer with other time span specified
Agilemind is correct, and your citation here actually supports them. The spell’s magic appears only for a moment. A shirt you clean with prestidigitation doesn’t immediately become dirty again after the spell’s instantaneous duration expires. In the same way that the damage done by a fire bolt remains after the spell’s duration, so too does the layer of dust created by elementalism. It’s completely mundane non-magical dust.
Prestigitation last an hour for any of its non-instantaneous effects. The exemple of cleaning isn't the best since dirt that went away don't come back. But spells that specifically create things with duration is different like some of Elementalism effect and Beckon Earth has no other duration..
Likewise, Color Spray isn't permanent, it's instantaneous so what it creates doesn't stay permanently.
A spell's duration is the length of time the spell persists after it is cast so for effect to last more than an instant, Instantaneous spell effect must say otherwise.
Honest question: What about Create or Destroy Water? It seems weird to me if the water only lasts for a bunch of seconds.
The cleaning example is perfect actually, because your logic would require that the dirt come back. It’s an instantaneous effect that you’re saying should end immediately.
This is obviously not true. Again, the damage dealt by fire bolt or the healing done by cure wounds doesn’t immediately go away.
Technically, Create or Destroy Water duration is instantaneous, just like Flame Strike.
Correct, and the water created by the former sticks around, just like the damage done by flame strike. The magic is gone; the effect of the magic remains.
The damage is the result of the spell outcome wether attack or saving throw, not what the spell originally create, most spell that deal damage with instantaneous duration only last an instant, it is literally the meaning of it
Clearly, some spells could have been better written to account for that.
See this Sage Advice for more on instantenous duration
I thought the zombie was permanently raised but doesn't say so, yeah that means this falls a lot more in your side of view than mine :)