My DM and I recently had a disagreement about the rules around healing a downed character. The facts that are NOT being disputed (please still correct me if any of this is wrong): When a player character drops to 0 hit points, they gain the Unconscious condition, which, amongst other effects, also grants the Incapacitated and Prone conditions. If an Unconscious character is healed, they regain the corresponding number of Hit Points, lose the Unconscious and Incapacitated conditions, but retain the Prone condition.
We disagree about what happens on that character's next turn. From my reading of the rules, it seems like they start their turn as normal with the Prone condition, which can be ended by expending half their movement, at which point they still have their action and bonus action. My DM, however, was under the impression that the character uses their action to stand back up. He definitely got this from Baldur's Gate 3, and I'm like 90% sure my interpretation is correct for 2024 5e.
But now that I'm thinking about it, it does seem a bit odd that a character can be reduced to 0 Hit Points on a monster's turn, get healed on another character's turn, and then the only penalty on their next turn is the prone condition, which is easily removable for a pretty low cost. It seems like there should be a steeper penalty than that, especially with the proliferation of bonus action healing options in the new PHB. So basically, the only cost to going down is an ally's bonus action and half of your movement. I still think I'm right about the rules as written, but I'm starting to question whether they actually make sense.
[...]When a player character drops to 0 hit points, they gain the Unconscious condition, which, amongst other effects, also grants the Incapacitated and Prone conditions. If an Unconscious character is healed, they regain the corresponding number of Hit Points, lose the Unconscious and Incapacitated conditions, but retain the Prone condition.
This is right.
We disagree about what happens on that character's next turn. From my reading of the rules, it seems like they start their turn as normal with the Prone condition, which can be ended by expending half their movement, at which point they still have their action and bonus action.
You start your turn with the Prone condition, yes, but you have your action, Bonus Action and Reaction available even with the Prone condition.
@TarodNet is correct but just to be perfectly clear, standing up does NOT use any of you Action, Bonus Action or Reaction, it just costs you half your movement.
But now that I'm thinking about it, it does seem a bit odd that a character can be reduced to 0 Hit Points on a monster's turn, get healed on another character's turn, and then the only penalty on their next turn is the prone condition, which is easily removable for a pretty low cost. It seems like there should be a steeper penalty than that, especially with the proliferation of bonus action healing options in the new PHB. So basically, the only cost to going down is an ally's bonus action and half of your movement. I still think I'm right about the rules as written, but I'm starting to question whether they actually make sense.
Things happen very quickly in combat, in game time at least. Each round is just six seconds, and a player who goes unconscious but gets healed might only have been out for a couple seconds
If you ever watch something like UFC, it happens quite frequently that someone will lose consciousness for a couple seconds, and come up swinging afterwards, not even realizing they'd gone out. I don't think it's unreasonable that a PC would be able to do something similar in game terms, and not suffer any other penalty other than being prone
Anything beyond that is best left to RP by the player if they want to "sell" having been knocked out
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
One more thing often overlooked is that you drop whatever you’re holding when Unconscious. and when it ends you start your turn Prone and empty handed.
One more thing often overlooked is that you drop whatever you’re holding when Unconscious. and when it ends you start your turn Prone and empty handed.
One thing to keep in mind is that shields are not dropped since they are not just held. Shields require the use of the Utilize action to doff or don. So if a character falls unconscious, they drop their weapon but the shield remains equipped.
P.S. On the other hand the 2024 rules use the statement "Anyone can don armor or hold a Shield" .. so I DM could rule that a shield is dropped when a character becomes unconscious. :)
—an opponent picks up your dropped weapons, wand, etc.
—every time you take damage while at zero hp, you fail a death save. Area of effect damage counts. Your foes also get advantage on attacks. So they are more likely to get criticals, which cost you two failed death saves, and might be enough to kill you outright anyway.
—if you wake up and decide it is time to run away, you don’t get as far.
—one of your allies probably used a bonus action or action to heal you instead of doing something else, which is one more ding to your party’s action economy and probably one less use of a resource (e.g., item or spell slot) available for something else.
But isn't that the point of being on an adventure?
Sure, but the OP asked whether they were missing any downsides beyond losing half your move from getting knocked out/ending up prone. I just intended to elaborate on a few of those. Up to the reader to decide whether they would care or not. I personally would be unhappy if when my PC got knocked unconscious, the BBEG grabbed my legendary Sword of Thing Required for This World Saving Quest off the ground and teleported away. I can’t just pick it up if it is no longer there. Much bigger loss than half of my move.
But isn't that the point of being on an adventure?
Sure, but the OP asked whether they were missing any downsides beyond losing half your move from getting knocked out/ending up prone. I just intended to elaborate on a few of those. Up to the reader to decide whether they would care or not. I personally would be unhappy if when my PC got knocked unconscious, the BBEG grabbed my legendary Sword of Thing Required for This World Saving Quest off the ground and teleported away. I can’t just pick it up if it is no longer there. Much bigger loss than half of my move.
Would you be as upset if:
-The DM was forming the story on the go (known to the group that the adventure was dynamic and built around their actions) and losing that came with the opportunity to find another such weapon? -The taking of the item didn't invalidate further adventures and instead just led to different stakes/methods when fighting said BBEG?
My DM and I recently had a disagreement about the rules around healing a downed character. The facts that are NOT being disputed (please still correct me if any of this is wrong): When a player character drops to 0 hit points, they gain the Unconscious condition, which, amongst other effects, also grants the Incapacitated and Prone conditions. If an Unconscious character is healed, they regain the corresponding number of Hit Points, lose the Unconscious and Incapacitated conditions, but retain the Prone condition.
We disagree about what happens on that character's next turn. From my reading of the rules, it seems like they start their turn as normal with the Prone condition, which can be ended by expending half their movement, at which point they still have their action and bonus action. My DM, however, was under the impression that the character uses their action to stand back up. He definitely got this from Baldur's Gate 3, and I'm like 90% sure my interpretation is correct for 2024 5e.
But now that I'm thinking about it, it does seem a bit odd that a character can be reduced to 0 Hit Points on a monster's turn, get healed on another character's turn, and then the only penalty on their next turn is the prone condition, which is easily removable for a pretty low cost. It seems like there should be a steeper penalty than that, especially with the proliferation of bonus action healing options in the new PHB. So basically, the only cost to going down is an ally's bonus action and half of your movement. I still think I'm right about the rules as written, but I'm starting to question whether they actually make sense.
I'm going to point something out about BG3 here.
The rules that BG3 plays by aren't 1:1 perfect with D&D 5e, or any other edition of D&D. Rather, they're a video game adaptation, and changes have been made where the devs felt they would make the game better in the video game format.
I would no doubt be dismayed in the moment, but content to roll with the story arc. But if it was just random, not so much. Partly would depend on my trust in the DM. I’m generally not a fan of DMs taking key gear, such as a wizard’s spell book, without it being part of the story arc. It is too easy for that to become DM vs player or some other unhealthy dynamic.
And either way, it would be a consequence far greater than ‘I lost half my move’.
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My DM and I recently had a disagreement about the rules around healing a downed character. The facts that are NOT being disputed (please still correct me if any of this is wrong): When a player character drops to 0 hit points, they gain the Unconscious condition, which, amongst other effects, also grants the Incapacitated and Prone conditions. If an Unconscious character is healed, they regain the corresponding number of Hit Points, lose the Unconscious and Incapacitated conditions, but retain the Prone condition.
We disagree about what happens on that character's next turn. From my reading of the rules, it seems like they start their turn as normal with the Prone condition, which can be ended by expending half their movement, at which point they still have their action and bonus action. My DM, however, was under the impression that the character uses their action to stand back up. He definitely got this from Baldur's Gate 3, and I'm like 90% sure my interpretation is correct for 2024 5e.
But now that I'm thinking about it, it does seem a bit odd that a character can be reduced to 0 Hit Points on a monster's turn, get healed on another character's turn, and then the only penalty on their next turn is the prone condition, which is easily removable for a pretty low cost. It seems like there should be a steeper penalty than that, especially with the proliferation of bonus action healing options in the new PHB. So basically, the only cost to going down is an ally's bonus action and half of your movement. I still think I'm right about the rules as written, but I'm starting to question whether they actually make sense.
This is right.
You start your turn with the Prone condition, yes, but you have your action, Bonus Action and Reaction available even with the Prone condition.
@TarodNet is correct but just to be perfectly clear, standing up does NOT use any of you Action, Bonus Action or Reaction, it just costs you half your movement.
Things happen very quickly in combat, in game time at least. Each round is just six seconds, and a player who goes unconscious but gets healed might only have been out for a couple seconds
If you ever watch something like UFC, it happens quite frequently that someone will lose consciousness for a couple seconds, and come up swinging afterwards, not even realizing they'd gone out. I don't think it's unreasonable that a PC would be able to do something similar in game terms, and not suffer any other penalty other than being prone
Anything beyond that is best left to RP by the player if they want to "sell" having been knocked out
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
One more thing often overlooked is that you drop whatever you’re holding when Unconscious. and when it ends you start your turn Prone and empty handed.
One thing to keep in mind is that shields are not dropped since they are not just held. Shields require the use of the Utilize action to doff or don. So if a character falls unconscious, they drop their weapon but the shield remains equipped.
P.S. On the other hand the 2024 rules use the statement "Anyone can don armor or hold a Shield" .. so I DM could rule that a shield is dropped when a character becomes unconscious. :)
But picking up your weapon is free.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I'm not disagreeing, just pointing out that can be done as part of making the attack action or possibly as a free object interaction (on your turn).
Other potential consequences:
—an opponent picks up your dropped weapons, wand, etc.
—every time you take damage while at zero hp, you fail a death save. Area of effect damage counts. Your foes also get advantage on attacks. So they are more likely to get criticals, which cost you two failed death saves, and might be enough to kill you outright anyway.
—if you wake up and decide it is time to run away, you don’t get as far.
—one of your allies probably used a bonus action or action to heal you instead of doing something else, which is one more ding to your party’s action economy and probably one less use of a resource (e.g., item or spell slot) available for something else.
But isn't that the point of being on an adventure?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Sure, but the OP asked whether they were missing any downsides beyond losing half your move from getting knocked out/ending up prone. I just intended to elaborate on a few of those. Up to the reader to decide whether they would care or not. I personally would be unhappy if when my PC got knocked unconscious, the BBEG grabbed my legendary Sword of Thing Required for This World Saving Quest off the ground and teleported away. I can’t just pick it up if it is no longer there. Much bigger loss than half of my move.
Would you be as upset if:
-The DM was forming the story on the go (known to the group that the adventure was dynamic and built around their actions) and losing that came with the opportunity to find another such weapon?
-The taking of the item didn't invalidate further adventures and instead just led to different stakes/methods when fighting said BBEG?
This is just curiosity on my part.
I'm going to point something out about BG3 here.
The rules that BG3 plays by aren't 1:1 perfect with D&D 5e, or any other edition of D&D. Rather, they're a video game adaptation, and changes have been made where the devs felt they would make the game better in the video game format.
I would no doubt be dismayed in the moment, but content to roll with the story arc. But if it was just random, not so much. Partly would depend on my trust in the DM. I’m generally not a fan of DMs taking key gear, such as a wizard’s spell book, without it being part of the story arc. It is too easy for that to become DM vs player or some other unhealthy dynamic.
And either way, it would be a consequence far greater than ‘I lost half my move’.