Athletics isn't used in a standard long jump unless there is an obstacle.
It would make sense though that, say you had 18 STR and needed to clear and 18ft jump, you could just do it. But if you needed to clear a 20ft Jump, that the DM would allow this with an Athletics Check.
I'd say its there just to help differentiate what the features are of the skills. So players dont start thinking that jumping falls under acrobatics.
IE "Wanna jump good? You need Athletics. Wanna dodge or not trip over your own feet? You need Acrobatics."
The error was in not making a rule for this ridiculously common occurrence.
What do you mean?
The use of athletics for clearing obstacles is under "Long Jump".
As they said its only for clearing obstacles, one of the common questions asked throughout all 2014 games when it comes to skills was something along the lines of hey I only have a 13 strength but the gap is 15 what is the DC to make the jump. Have a rule for increasing the distance. The idea you are permanently stuck at one distance based on your strength is absurd. I'm not asking for super complex rules based on your encumbrance, terrain etc, but some basic the Dc to increase the distance of a long jump is 15 you increase the distance by 2 feet, for every 5 past 15 you increase the distance by another 2 feet. I have been a DM for 45 years so I can wing rules based on the situation when they don't cover something. But there are plenty of DMs who are just starting, put rules in for insanely common asks by players.
The DC and how much more you may be jumping with a Stregth (Athletics) check is up to DM. I would say it can be somewhere between the limit set by your Strength and your movement.
It would make sense though that, say you had 18 STR and needed to clear and 18ft jump, you could just do it. But if you needed to clear a 20ft Jump, that the DM would allow this with an Athletics Check.
Yes, I believe that this is the intention also. Although there is an implicit rule in place for clearing obstacles during a long jump, the description for the Athletics skill includes the situation where you attempt to "Jump farther than normal".
To me, the idea here is that in the above situation if the gap in the floor is 20 feet and a character who can long jump 18 feet attempts to jump across this gap, that character will prepare himself for the fact that he will come up just a little bit short and will attempt to slam his body into the wall of the pit on the far side while attempting to use his strength to grab onto the edge of the floor with his arms and hands without falling into the pit and then will subsequently hoist his body up and over the edge to the far side (Tomb Raider style).
That may the the intention but without a rule it put the DM in a weird spot to try and come up with things on the fly and knowing how much further for what DC is something that would have been nice to run through playtests instead of just winging it. Just using strength is such a weird idea in the first place to me. The idea Sparky the rogue with expertise in athletics and a 10 strength, 20 dex is in the same ball park as Steve the scholar with a 10 str, 10 dex and who never does more than walk fast is just strange. Like I am willing to accept roleplaying game conveniences like ignoring encumbrance when running, jumping, climbing etc(swimming seems off to me but fine). I'm also fine with more crunchy rules with staggered levels of encumbrance that effect movement. 5e they clearly went the more simplified route and its part of why its popular I suspect.
But when the ease distorts the tropes of your character it feels off. A ninja rogue shouldn't feel like they need to invest 15 points into strength so they can jump further than rando the commoner. Yes I know the thief subclass exists but a subclass does not fix the core issue that incredibly athletic people who didn't invest heavily into strength don't really jump any further than people with 0 athletic talent or skill with the same strength. On top of that a maybe the DM will let you jump a foot or two further is not a great place for the rules to be. It makes jumping a pretty common occurrence imo a DM may I rule.
Instead of strength maybe the base distance should have been your Strength + athletics proficiency bonus or your passive athletics score(that would nerf strong people a bit so i prefer the first option). And have a DC for increasing it by a foot like 1 foot is easy , 2 is medium, 3 hard etc. Ah well hopefully 6e will make the jump rules make a bit more sense and be easier on DMs.
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Athletics Strength Jump farther than normal, stay afloat in rough water, or break something.
How much farther....
Probably a transfer error from 2014 to 2024 rules.
Athletics only helps you clearing obstacles in a long jump.
Distance for jumping is determined solely by your STR score.
Athletics isn't used in a standard long jump unless there is an obstacle.
It would make sense though that, say you had 18 STR and needed to clear and 18ft jump, you could just do it. But if you needed to clear a 20ft Jump, that the DM would allow this with an Athletics Check.
I'd say its there just to help differentiate what the features are of the skills. So players dont start thinking that jumping falls under acrobatics.
IE "Wanna jump good? You need Athletics. Wanna dodge or not trip over your own feet? You need Acrobatics."
Thanks to all
The error was in not making a rule for this ridiculously common occurrence.
What do you mean?
The use of athletics for clearing obstacles is under "Long Jump".
As they said its only for clearing obstacles, one of the common questions asked throughout all 2014 games when it comes to skills was something along the lines of hey I only have a 13 strength but the gap is 15 what is the DC to make the jump. Have a rule for increasing the distance. The idea you are permanently stuck at one distance based on your strength is absurd. I'm not asking for super complex rules based on your encumbrance, terrain etc, but some basic the Dc to increase the distance of a long jump is 15 you increase the distance by 2 feet, for every 5 past 15 you increase the distance by another 2 feet. I have been a DM for 45 years so I can wing rules based on the situation when they don't cover something. But there are plenty of DMs who are just starting, put rules in for insanely common asks by players.
The DC and how much more you may be jumping with a Stregth (Athletics) check is up to DM. I would say it can be somewhere between the limit set by your Strength and your movement.
Yes, I believe that this is the intention also. Although there is an implicit rule in place for clearing obstacles during a long jump, the description for the Athletics skill includes the situation where you attempt to "Jump farther than normal".
To me, the idea here is that in the above situation if the gap in the floor is 20 feet and a character who can long jump 18 feet attempts to jump across this gap, that character will prepare himself for the fact that he will come up just a little bit short and will attempt to slam his body into the wall of the pit on the far side while attempting to use his strength to grab onto the edge of the floor with his arms and hands without falling into the pit and then will subsequently hoist his body up and over the edge to the far side (Tomb Raider style).
That may the the intention but without a rule it put the DM in a weird spot to try and come up with things on the fly and knowing how much further for what DC is something that would have been nice to run through playtests instead of just winging it. Just using strength is such a weird idea in the first place to me. The idea Sparky the rogue with expertise in athletics and a 10 strength, 20 dex is in the same ball park as Steve the scholar with a 10 str, 10 dex and who never does more than walk fast is just strange. Like I am willing to accept roleplaying game conveniences like ignoring encumbrance when running, jumping, climbing etc(swimming seems off to me but fine). I'm also fine with more crunchy rules with staggered levels of encumbrance that effect movement. 5e they clearly went the more simplified route and its part of why its popular I suspect.
But when the ease distorts the tropes of your character it feels off. A ninja rogue shouldn't feel like they need to invest 15 points into strength so they can jump further than rando the commoner. Yes I know the thief subclass exists but a subclass does not fix the core issue that incredibly athletic people who didn't invest heavily into strength don't really jump any further than people with 0 athletic talent or skill with the same strength. On top of that a maybe the DM will let you jump a foot or two further is not a great place for the rules to be. It makes jumping a pretty common occurrence imo a DM may I rule.
Instead of strength maybe the base distance should have been your Strength + athletics proficiency bonus or your passive athletics score(that would nerf strong people a bit so i prefer the first option). And have a DC for increasing it by a foot like 1 foot is easy , 2 is medium, 3 hard etc. Ah well hopefully 6e will make the jump rules make a bit more sense and be easier on DMs.