I am playing a lvl 9 Druid, and recently she found a Staff of the Woodlands. I've had it for a few sessions and we had utilized Pass without a Trace from the staff a few times when our DM suddenly announced that the item was overpowered and he expressed some regret at me having it, and how incredibly overpowered it is, next session he decided that it should cost a charge to use Pass without a Trace. I didn't think that our party was abusing the At Will, Pass without a Trace that the staff came with.
But now I am hesitant to use the staff because I want to make sure that I have charges available for some of the actual spells that it grants. Wall of Thorns has gotten us out of a tricky spot in the past.
I am personally feeling like my cool new staff has been nerfed and should be used very sparingly. Our DM has also never put any other limits to magic items in the past with our campaign.
Anyone have experience using the staff in their campaign, has your DM put limits on the item? If so, what were the limits, and what was the reasoning?
If I mistakenly gave it out, I would nerf it. I personally would change it as follows, to make it rare:
Still has 10 charges maximum. I would change regains 1d6+4 charges a day to regains 1 charge a day. Paying a single charge would let you cast Pass Without Trace for the next 24 hours.
Pass without trace just makes your party more stealthy. However, it doesn't make them invisible. If a party using pass without trace walks into a clearing in the woods they are clearly visible and not hidden to anyone already hiding in the bushes. Stealth doesn't matter. If the party is using cover and trying to move quietly the spell makes them better at it but it doesn't take away the requirements for hiding - the characters have to remain unseen and unheard. If they walk over something hidden on the ground that makes a lot of noise when they step on it, pass without trace doesn't help.
I personally haven't found pass without trace to be game breaking just very convenient :)
Staff of the Woodlands is a very good staff for a druid. It has a lot of convenience and utility spells but honestly most of them aren't very useful. Awaken is probably the most interesting since you can give any beast with an intelligence of 3 or less, an intelligence of 10 and a language. They are charmed for 30 days then they make up their own mind about what they want to do. They can stay or go. That decision is likely to depend on the nature of that specific beast and exactly how well it has been treated in the preceding 30 days. Even being charmed only gives the caster advantage on charisma checks. They don't do what you want and they aren't necessarily loyal unless you put in a lot of time and effort convincing them and even then they may decide that they aren't interested in adventuring. There is a lot of role play potential with Awaken but it will be up to the DM how many you might be able to convince to stay with you or even help you out while they are charmed. On the other hand, it would likely be a good way to get a couple of animal companions for your character.
Anyway, its a nice staff but given the capabilities it is not (in my opinion) OP. However, in the end it is your DMs call but I would be interested in why the DM is so concerned about stealth checks.
It definitely seems like a pretty powerful staff to me. +2 to spell attacks, a lot of extra spells, and at-will casting of Pass without Trace is pretty powerful. It also gives you a level 6 spell you couldn't otherwise get at level 9.
The at-will Pass Without Trace makes it so the party basically *permanently* has +10 stealth. PWoT used a spell slot or a charge, players would have to pick and choose when to use it, they'd basically have to know they have a reason to be sneaky. Without that, you can just have that on basically all the time.
I don't know about OP, but to me it definitely feels like a level-14 kind of item than a level-9 kind of item. I haven't played with it, though.
I guess I should clarify how I came about the staff in the first place. I actually got the staff at level 8 because our DM uses a system of us gaining downtime and rolling on the magic item tables, exchanging something for a new item. Our party took a couple of rolls on the tables with a +2 shield and the staff came up for us. I have also got a necklace of prayer beads via this method as well.
I am a newerish player and have limited knowledge of what is "player level appropriate" so when the staff dropped I didn't look at it and think it was overpowered and needed to be nerfed. I am also one of those players that is very considerate to immersion and not abusing things. I have only used PWoT a small handful of times since getting the staff. I didn't want to run around with it up ALL the time, because that seemed silly, and not something my character would do. I felt like the Nerf my DM gave me was kind of a slap in the face for something I wasnt even abusing.
I mean, your DM gave you an item, presumably knowing full-well what it did. That's on them. There's no reason they should turn around and nerf the item, especially an officially published item that they presumably read the description on before giving it to you. Definitely talk to your DM about how this makes you feel. It's hardly your fault that they handed you an item that's extremely powerful. That just sounds like something they need to take into consideration, or maybe read the description of things, in the future.
If you wouldn't normally be able to cast all of the spells at your level, I could see not allowing the usage of that spell. I think that the concern about Pass without trace is probably unfounded and has been covered pretty well so far. As long as the DM is treating stealth correctly and not treating it as World of Warcraft does. While +10 to stealth is certainly quite high, the Dwarf Cleric, Human Paladin, and Half-Orc Fighter who are all sporting a -1 dex modifier and have to roll disadvantage on stealth are still going to fail a number of stealth checks (several medium armors and all heavy armors have disadvantage on stealth checks). If the DM is that concerned about the stealth, he can have the guards be more vigilant more often as this silent group continues to descend from nowhere to devastate strongholds, giving them advantage on their perception checks or +5 to their passive perception. Give one the Alert feat. Choose High Perception creatures to populate. Increase the number of guards at the gate! Increase Health Pools to compensate for the higher round damage losses. It doesn't have to be a constant thing to trivialize the weapon's abilities, but enough to make your party not simply rely upon the ability to stealth in and devastate.
This isn’t something I’d ever noticed about the Staff of the Woodlands, but since I plan on giving my game’s druid a staff based on it in a year or so, I’ve been thinking about since reading this thread.
I do think permanent at-will Pass Without Trace is more power than I want the character to have so this is how I’m going to change it: I’m going to let him cast it normally for two charges, same as every other spell it can cast. I’m going to let him cast it for no charges provided he’s in an environment to which he’s suited (which we’ll adjudicate ad hoc, but it won’t work in cities or artificial buildings, I’ll tell you that much), and it only affects him when he does this, not other targets near him. I really like the idea of a druid being able to move undetected through their own forest at will and I’d like to allow that, but I’m not on board with sharing that with allies or doing it literally anywhere, all for free.
I felt like the Nerf my DM gave me was kind of a slap in the face
Perhaps this is something to ask - why are you thinking of it as "a slap in the face"?
DM gave you an item. Then realized it was a bit more powerful than they wanted you to have at the time and nerfed *one* of its many powers. Why's that "a slap in the face"? Seems like a pretty reasonable course of action to me...
I am playing a lvl 9 Druid, and recently she found a Staff of the Woodlands. I've had it for a few sessions and we had utilized Pass without a Trace from the staff a few times when our DM suddenly announced that the item was overpowered and he expressed some regret at me having it, and how incredibly overpowered it is, next session he decided that it should cost a charge to use Pass without a Trace. I didn't think that our party was abusing the At Will, Pass without a Trace that the staff came with.
But now I am hesitant to use the staff because I want to make sure that I have charges available for some of the actual spells that it grants. Wall of Thorns has gotten us out of a tricky spot in the past.
I am personally feeling like my cool new staff has been nerfed and should be used very sparingly. Our DM has also never put any other limits to magic items in the past with our campaign.
Anyone have experience using the staff in their campaign, has your DM put limits on the item? If so, what were the limits, and what was the reasoning?
Staff of the Woodlands staff should be Very Rare. No other Rare Staff lets you cast a single 6th level spell (Wall of Thorns), let alone a 6th AND a 5th level (Awaken). It is clearly better than the Very Rare Staff of Fire, on par with the Very Rare Staff of Frost.
If I mistakenly gave it out, I would nerf it. I personally would change it as follows, to make it rare:
Still has 10 charges maximum. I would change
regains 1d6+4 charges a dayto regains 1 charge a day. Paying a single charge would let you cast Pass Without Trace for the next 24 hours.Pass without trace just makes your party more stealthy. However, it doesn't make them invisible. If a party using pass without trace walks into a clearing in the woods they are clearly visible and not hidden to anyone already hiding in the bushes. Stealth doesn't matter. If the party is using cover and trying to move quietly the spell makes them better at it but it doesn't take away the requirements for hiding - the characters have to remain unseen and unheard. If they walk over something hidden on the ground that makes a lot of noise when they step on it, pass without trace doesn't help.
I personally haven't found pass without trace to be game breaking just very convenient :)
Staff of the Woodlands is a very good staff for a druid. It has a lot of convenience and utility spells but honestly most of them aren't very useful. Awaken is probably the most interesting since you can give any beast with an intelligence of 3 or less, an intelligence of 10 and a language. They are charmed for 30 days then they make up their own mind about what they want to do. They can stay or go. That decision is likely to depend on the nature of that specific beast and exactly how well it has been treated in the preceding 30 days. Even being charmed only gives the caster advantage on charisma checks. They don't do what you want and they aren't necessarily loyal unless you put in a lot of time and effort convincing them and even then they may decide that they aren't interested in adventuring. There is a lot of role play potential with Awaken but it will be up to the DM how many you might be able to convince to stay with you or even help you out while they are charmed. On the other hand, it would likely be a good way to get a couple of animal companions for your character.
Anyway, its a nice staff but given the capabilities it is not (in my opinion) OP. However, in the end it is your DMs call but I would be interested in why the DM is so concerned about stealth checks.
It definitely seems like a pretty powerful staff to me. +2 to spell attacks, a lot of extra spells, and at-will casting of Pass without Trace is pretty powerful. It also gives you a level 6 spell you couldn't otherwise get at level 9.
The at-will Pass Without Trace makes it so the party basically *permanently* has +10 stealth. PWoT used a spell slot or a charge, players would have to pick and choose when to use it, they'd basically have to know they have a reason to be sneaky. Without that, you can just have that on basically all the time.
I don't know about OP, but to me it definitely feels like a level-14 kind of item than a level-9 kind of item. I haven't played with it, though.
I guess I should clarify how I came about the staff in the first place. I actually got the staff at level 8 because our DM uses a system of us gaining downtime and rolling on the magic item tables, exchanging something for a new item. Our party took a couple of rolls on the tables with a +2 shield and the staff came up for us. I have also got a necklace of prayer beads via this method as well.
I am a newerish player and have limited knowledge of what is "player level appropriate" so when the staff dropped I didn't look at it and think it was overpowered and needed to be nerfed. I am also one of those players that is very considerate to immersion and not abusing things. I have only used PWoT a small handful of times since getting the staff. I didn't want to run around with it up ALL the time, because that seemed silly, and not something my character would do. I felt like the Nerf my DM gave me was kind of a slap in the face for something I wasnt even abusing.
I mean, your DM gave you an item, presumably knowing full-well what it did. That's on them. There's no reason they should turn around and nerf the item, especially an officially published item that they presumably read the description on before giving it to you. Definitely talk to your DM about how this makes you feel. It's hardly your fault that they handed you an item that's extremely powerful. That just sounds like something they need to take into consideration, or maybe read the description of things, in the future.
If you wouldn't normally be able to cast all of the spells at your level, I could see not allowing the usage of that spell. I think that the concern about Pass without trace is probably unfounded and has been covered pretty well so far. As long as the DM is treating stealth correctly and not treating it as World of Warcraft does. While +10 to stealth is certainly quite high, the Dwarf Cleric, Human Paladin, and Half-Orc Fighter who are all sporting a -1 dex modifier and have to roll disadvantage on stealth are still going to fail a number of stealth checks (several medium armors and all heavy armors have disadvantage on stealth checks). If the DM is that concerned about the stealth, he can have the guards be more vigilant more often as this silent group continues to descend from nowhere to devastate strongholds, giving them advantage on their perception checks or +5 to their passive perception. Give one the Alert feat. Choose High Perception creatures to populate. Increase the number of guards at the gate! Increase Health Pools to compensate for the higher round damage losses. It doesn't have to be a constant thing to trivialize the weapon's abilities, but enough to make your party not simply rely upon the ability to stealth in and devastate.
This isn’t something I’d ever noticed about the Staff of the Woodlands, but since I plan on giving my game’s druid a staff based on it in a year or so, I’ve been thinking about since reading this thread.
I do think permanent at-will Pass Without Trace is more power than I want the character to have so this is how I’m going to change it: I’m going to let him cast it normally for two charges, same as every other spell it can cast. I’m going to let him cast it for no charges provided he’s in an environment to which he’s suited (which we’ll adjudicate ad hoc, but it won’t work in cities or artificial buildings, I’ll tell you that much), and it only affects him when he does this, not other targets near him. I really like the idea of a druid being able to move undetected through their own forest at will and I’d like to allow that, but I’m not on board with sharing that with allies or doing it literally anywhere, all for free.
Perhaps this is something to ask - why are you thinking of it as "a slap in the face"?
DM gave you an item. Then realized it was a bit more powerful than they wanted you to have at the time and nerfed *one* of its many powers. Why's that "a slap in the face"? Seems like a pretty reasonable course of action to me...