You know that one popular post of using simulacrum and wish to get infinite clones?
My DM is arguing that Simulacrums are considered NPC's and that he controls them. He believes that since they're NPC's, even if i have wish prepared, they shouldn't be able to cast it. My issue here is that no where in the spell description does it say that Simulacrums are NPC's, and even if they are, Wish only requires the caster to be mortal, NPC or otherwise. Who's in the right here?
Another thing that he is misunderstanding is the idea that a character can only have one simulacrum of himself at a time. I think he gets this from the last line of the spell's description: "If you cast this spell again, any currently active duplicates you created with this spell are instantly destroyed."
He thinks that if a simulacrum uses wish to cast the spell "Similacrum" on my original character, the Similacrum that casted wish would be instantly destroyed, and replaced by the new clone.
Wish is the mightiest spell a mortal creature can cast. By simply speaking aloud, you can alter the very foundations of reality in accord with your desires.
The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower. You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect.
I'm not seeing where it says that only mortals can cast it.
The relevant portions of Simulacrum (emphasis mine):
You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell. The duplicate is a creature, partially real and formed from ice or snow, and it can take actions and otherwise be affected as a normal creature. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has half the creature's hit point maximum and is formed without any equipment. Otherwise, the illusion uses all the statistics of the creature it duplicates.
The simulacrum is friendly to you and creatures you designate. It obeys your spoken commands, moving and acting in accordance with your wishes and acting on your turn in combat. The simulacrum lacks the ability to learn or become more powerful, so it never increases its level or other abilities, nor can it regain expended spell slots.
If the simulacrum is damaged, you can repair it in an alchemical laboratory, using rare herbs and minerals worth 100 gp per hit point it regains. The simulacrum lasts until it drops to 0 hit points, at which point it reverts to snow and melts instantly. If you cast this spell again, any currently active duplicates you created with this spell are instantly destroyed.
Yeaaaaah... I have a weird way of interpreting it because it says that "Wish is the mightiest spell a mortal creature can cast". I always thought that only mortals can learn wish form that line... Now that i think about it, i have no clue why i thought that
This isn't an argument where I think being right or wrong really matters - what does matter, is what is good for the group's enjoyment of the game they are playing.
If your group (all of them, DM included, not just the player with the hypothetical simulacrum army) are cool with these two spells being able to combine together to create "unlimited" armies, then go wild - have fun.
If your group isn't into that kind of thing, then pick a reason you all can agree with that it doesn't happen - and have fun.
My group went with this reason why those spells don't combine in the way it might appear they do; A willingly made copy of you is sufficiently you for purposes of clauses along the lines of "If you cast this spell again" - so simulacrum doesn't work, even if cast by means of wish, to make there be more than two total you in the world, and similarly simulacrum doesn't provide protection against the drawbacks of the uses of wish that do more than duplicate another less powerful spell.
If your group isn't into that kind of thing, then pick a reason you all can agree with that it doesn't happen - and have fun.
My group went with this reason why those spells don't combine in the way it might appear they do; A willingly made copy of you is sufficiently you for purposes of clauses along the lines of "If you cast this spell again" - so simulacrum doesn't work, even if cast by means of wish, to make there be more than two total you in the world, and similarly simulacrum doesn't provide protection against the drawbacks of the uses of wish that do more than duplicate another less powerful spell.
My thought was "wait, does the simulacrum have the spell slot you used to cast it?"
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You know that one popular post of using simulacrum and wish to get infinite clones?
My DM is arguing that Simulacrums are considered NPC's and that he controls them. He believes that since they're NPC's, even if i have wish prepared, they shouldn't be able to cast it. My issue here is that no where in the spell description does it say that Simulacrums are NPC's, and even if they are, Wish only requires the caster to be mortal, NPC or otherwise. Who's in the right here?
Another thing that he is misunderstanding is the idea that a character can only have one simulacrum of himself at a time. I think he gets this from the last line of the spell's description: "If you cast this spell again, any currently active duplicates you created with this spell are instantly destroyed."
He thinks that if a simulacrum uses wish to cast the spell "Similacrum" on my original character, the Similacrum that casted wish would be instantly destroyed, and replaced by the new clone.
The relevant portion of Wish:
I'm not seeing where it says that only mortals can cast it.
The relevant portions of Simulacrum (emphasis mine):
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Yeaaaaah... I have a weird way of interpreting it because it says that "Wish is the mightiest spell a mortal creature can cast". I always thought that only mortals can learn wish form that line... Now that i think about it, i have no clue why i thought that
This isn't an argument where I think being right or wrong really matters - what does matter, is what is good for the group's enjoyment of the game they are playing.
If your group (all of them, DM included, not just the player with the hypothetical simulacrum army) are cool with these two spells being able to combine together to create "unlimited" armies, then go wild - have fun.
If your group isn't into that kind of thing, then pick a reason you all can agree with that it doesn't happen - and have fun.
My group went with this reason why those spells don't combine in the way it might appear they do; A willingly made copy of you is sufficiently you for purposes of clauses along the lines of "If you cast this spell again" - so simulacrum doesn't work, even if cast by means of wish, to make there be more than two total you in the world, and similarly simulacrum doesn't provide protection against the drawbacks of the uses of wish that do more than duplicate another less powerful spell.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
I am not sure what the question on this tread is asking but I might be able to answer it.
If you want a huge army then cast simulacrum, long rest, and have your simulacrum cast simulacrum on you, repeat.
If you want wishes then just cast simulacrum and have your simulacrum cast wish, the simulacrum then takes the negative drawbacks of wish and not you.
When the DM smiles, it is already to late.
Please leave dead threads to rest in piece.
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Thread-necromancy is defined as reviving an old thread for no reason other than bumping it to the first page or offering your opinion on a discussion that concluded over 6 months previously, without offering new information. If you have nothing to add to the discussion, move on. Thread authors may reply to their thread if they have made a significant update to the original post.
We do not auto lock threads so that new information can be added to an older topic without needing to start a new thread.