Some time ago, I put in great effort to create a spellbook prop to act as my favorite PC’s character sheet, preferring something tangible and durable with copious tabs and such over a tiny paper sheet or a PDF. While it’s lovely, it could always be neater. Also, now that I’ve gotten more tools and improved my skill with calligraphy materials (irl lol), I’d like to make a new one, and am thinking of creating sort of a visual language for it. It’s going to be a big undertaking.
I say all of that to illustrate that things need to be rather precise. The kinds of books that would look best and last longest tend not to allow me to move or add pages, thus, my preference is to have the character’s build charted out to Level 20, with check boxes for when some spells and features become applicable, and some fields where pencil is appropriate. In addition to being absolutely certain which spells I want her to have, I need to be positive which feats I want to take. Having been playing for years now since the character’s original conceptualization, I’m less sure my original choices were the best ones. She’s a Tiefling Evocation Wizard and Life Cleric multiclasser (19/1 is the plan) for context. I’m trying to choose from 5 feats from among the following 6.
Infernal Constitution
Lucky
Metamagic Adept -
Spell Sniper
Tough
War Caster
Her CON score is rather low (12), which I’ve tended to offset through items, but in their absence, War Caster and Infernal Constitution become incredibly tempting. Spell Sniper is also designed to offset risks to her spell concentration by keeping her out of range. If taking Metamagic Adept, I’d utilize Distant Spell (to stack with Spell Sniper) and Subtle Spell. All of this I suppose brings us to Lucky and Tough. Lucky was one I picked for her original build because I consistently rolled like utter garbage and was, up until getting that sweet Life Cleric armor proficiency, pretty damned squishy as most Wizards are. Now I’m not sure it’s as crucial?
So, the question comes down to this. Is it more useful to be able to take more hits, or to be able to potentially dodge them outright while also bending fortune to my favor in other ways in crucial moments? Also, how useful have you found the additional damage resistances if you’ve used Infernal Constitution? It may be up for debate for me as well. Thoughts?
So your idea is to use infernal constitution and tough to be tankier, with War caster to maintain concentration when hit. And lucky and spell sniper to get hit less often.
You mentioned having low CON. Is your INT already at 20? If you plan to wear heavy armor is your STR already 13 or 15? High WIS would be helpful, but it only needs to be 13 to multiclass.
First, unless you rolled really well, I'm sure you could use some ASIs. As for being tanky, just increase CON. You don't need spell sniper. You will already have spells that hit from further than enemies can move and it won't help most of the time...
Wow, that is a lot of feats. Honestly, I'd like to see what your stats are overall to get a better sense, but I do have a few thoughts...
I don't think you really need Metamagic and Spell Sniper. It's fun to realize that you have a truly insane range on your spells, but think to yourself... when have you been 300 feet away from a target and felt comfortable with firing on them? I think you'd get more use out of Spell Sniper, since it applies to every use of a spell that has an attack roll... but I can understand how it can be tempting to always have a little extra spice you can add to any spell. I'd say if you mostly rely on Saving Throw spells go for Metamagic, but if you have a lot of go-to attack roll spells then you'll get more out of Spell Sniper.
Infernal Constitution, Tough, and Warcaster all seem to be meant to address your relatively low CON, but you might be better served just adding +6 to your CON over time. Out of the three of them, Warcaster is probably the most versatile. Tough, to me, is actually of more value to someone who already has high CON... if you just put two points into CON it not only gives you a +1 to your HP (which retroactively applies to all previous levels as well), but also increases your CON saves and checks in general. If you have High Con already, but either want to get super tanky or if you just rolled really badly for HP at multiple level ups, then that's when I think Tough becomes really helpful. I can't speak too much on Infernal Constitution, because I've never played with it or been at a table where it came into play, but it seems like one of those feats that is either a life saver or completely useless depending on what enemies your DM tends to throw at you. On the plus side, Advantage against being Poisoned is often interpreted as giving you advantage on avoiding getting wasted, so you could win a few drinking contests that seem to constantly come up in Taverns.
Lucky as well is pretty open ended... I've often said that Lucky isn't as good as some people say it is... rather, it's a viable option for just about any character, regardless of class or race, so it seems more potent than it really is since it has that universal appeal.
Not really knowing your character stats or the build of your party, my main recommendation is to drop Tough and Lucky, then just put an ASI or two into your CON. I've already said what I think about some of the other choices, but if you've got high enough stats that you don't really need the ASI, I could see it being pretty fun to have the full suite of Infernal Constitution, Metamagic Adept, Spell Sniper, and Warcaster.
I’d drop spellsniper and maybe even the tough feat depending on your stats. there are only a few spells a wizard can cast that spellsniper will have any noticeable effect on that are high enough level to matter, steel wind strike being the big one. You’re already an evocation wizard, so much of the benefit of steel wind strike is negated by your sculpt spell feature since steel wind strike is basically an AOE that makes use of precise attacks to keep team members safe from blasts.
I’d replace the feat with either fey touched, telekinetic, or resilient constitution depending on if your stat lay out and what you use your bonus actions for.
Telekinetic can give you a way to push a foe without size limitations into one of your ongoing spell effects as a bonus action. Quite powerful, and a half feat.
fey touched gives you a free casting of misty step, a +1 to a mental attribute, a second 1st level spell of the divination or enchantment school, the ability to cast both of those spells again with your spell slots and your chosen attribute, and also importantly probably freeing up a spell preparation slot for your wizard.
resilient:con makes you better at all Con Saves, concentration or not, and potentially adds a modifier to your con score to increase your maximum hitpoints. keeping your concentration by save or by having a sliver of Hitpoints can save your entire party.
as for your metamagic choices, unless your DM goes out of their way to make use of distances, distant spell and spellsnipers distance increase may not be effective at all. •transmuted spell may be cheap and effective for your wizard to make sure your most effective damage spells are bypassing resistances. •extended spell will likely make one of your much more mileage through the adventuring day than a momentary increase in spell range. Still one point cost. •subtle spell would also be amazing for you, if only for counterspelling. Again, 1 point cost.
Holy crap that is an AMAZING stat array. You are set for life. Honestly, I'd say spend on ASI to max out INT and just go with feats the rest of the way. 12 isn't ideal CON (if I were you, I would have prioritized CON vs STR, and you'd have almost no problems, but I don't know what exact combination of Race/Class/Background, so I can't say how difficult that would have been). But still, holy crap, you are sitting on a Full House of stats there.
However, I'm going to ignore my immediate gut reaction, so, taking a moment to look back at your feats, here's my thoughts... take Infernal constitution to bring your CON to a 13. Then at your next ASI round out CON and WIS both to 14. Then just go wild with feats. Taking INT up to 20 would help a lot... but honestly you can play a full campaign at 18 and still be perfectly fine.
I think you’re all misunderstanding my point. I’m not massively concerned with min-maxing. Her stats are selected the way they are for a reason, and these specific feats are the most in-character for her. So, to my original question once more . . .
I got six. I’m taking five. Which five out of that six?
Spell sniper really depends on the campaign and DM to be useful. Have you had a lot of encounters where you spotted the enemy from 200 feet away? If not, then you won't need it.
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Hey all,
Some time ago, I put in great effort to create a spellbook prop to act as my favorite PC’s character sheet, preferring something tangible and durable with copious tabs and such over a tiny paper sheet or a PDF. While it’s lovely, it could always be neater. Also, now that I’ve gotten more tools and improved my skill with calligraphy materials (irl lol), I’d like to make a new one, and am thinking of creating sort of a visual language for it. It’s going to be a big undertaking.
I say all of that to illustrate that things need to be rather precise. The kinds of books that would look best and last longest tend not to allow me to move or add pages, thus, my preference is to have the character’s build charted out to Level 20, with check boxes for when some spells and features become applicable, and some fields where pencil is appropriate. In addition to being absolutely certain which spells I want her to have, I need to be positive which feats I want to take. Having been playing for years now since the character’s original conceptualization, I’m less sure my original choices were the best ones. She’s a Tiefling Evocation Wizard and Life Cleric multiclasser (19/1 is the plan) for context. I’m trying to choose from 5 feats from among the following 6.
Her CON score is rather low (12), which I’ve tended to offset through items, but in their absence, War Caster and Infernal Constitution become incredibly tempting. Spell Sniper is also designed to offset risks to her spell concentration by keeping her out of range. If taking Metamagic Adept, I’d utilize Distant Spell (to stack with Spell Sniper) and Subtle Spell. All of this I suppose brings us to Lucky and Tough. Lucky was one I picked for her original build because I consistently rolled like utter garbage and was, up until getting that sweet Life Cleric armor proficiency, pretty damned squishy as most Wizards are. Now I’m not sure it’s as crucial?
So, the question comes down to this. Is it more useful to be able to take more hits, or to be able to potentially dodge them outright while also bending fortune to my favor in other ways in crucial moments? Also, how useful have you found the additional damage resistances if you’ve used Infernal Constitution? It may be up for debate for me as well. Thoughts?
So your idea is to use infernal constitution and tough to be tankier, with War caster to maintain concentration when hit. And lucky and spell sniper to get hit less often.
You mentioned having low CON. Is your INT already at 20? If you plan to wear heavy armor is your STR already 13 or 15? High WIS would be helpful, but it only needs to be 13 to multiclass.
First, unless you rolled really well, I'm sure you could use some ASIs. As for being tanky, just increase CON. You don't need spell sniper. You will already have spells that hit from further than enemies can move and it won't help most of the time...
Wow, that is a lot of feats. Honestly, I'd like to see what your stats are overall to get a better sense, but I do have a few thoughts...
I don't think you really need Metamagic and Spell Sniper. It's fun to realize that you have a truly insane range on your spells, but think to yourself... when have you been 300 feet away from a target and felt comfortable with firing on them? I think you'd get more use out of Spell Sniper, since it applies to every use of a spell that has an attack roll... but I can understand how it can be tempting to always have a little extra spice you can add to any spell. I'd say if you mostly rely on Saving Throw spells go for Metamagic, but if you have a lot of go-to attack roll spells then you'll get more out of Spell Sniper.
Infernal Constitution, Tough, and Warcaster all seem to be meant to address your relatively low CON, but you might be better served just adding +6 to your CON over time. Out of the three of them, Warcaster is probably the most versatile. Tough, to me, is actually of more value to someone who already has high CON... if you just put two points into CON it not only gives you a +1 to your HP (which retroactively applies to all previous levels as well), but also increases your CON saves and checks in general. If you have High Con already, but either want to get super tanky or if you just rolled really badly for HP at multiple level ups, then that's when I think Tough becomes really helpful. I can't speak too much on Infernal Constitution, because I've never played with it or been at a table where it came into play, but it seems like one of those feats that is either a life saver or completely useless depending on what enemies your DM tends to throw at you. On the plus side, Advantage against being Poisoned is often interpreted as giving you advantage on avoiding getting wasted, so you could win a few drinking contests that seem to constantly come up in Taverns.
Lucky as well is pretty open ended... I've often said that Lucky isn't as good as some people say it is... rather, it's a viable option for just about any character, regardless of class or race, so it seems more potent than it really is since it has that universal appeal.
Not really knowing your character stats or the build of your party, my main recommendation is to drop Tough and Lucky, then just put an ASI or two into your CON. I've already said what I think about some of the other choices, but if you've got high enough stats that you don't really need the ASI, I could see it being pretty fun to have the full suite of Infernal Constitution, Metamagic Adept, Spell Sniper, and Warcaster.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I’d drop spellsniper and maybe even the tough feat depending on your stats. there are only a few spells a wizard can cast that spellsniper will have any noticeable effect on that are high enough level to matter, steel wind strike being the big one. You’re already an evocation wizard, so much of the benefit of steel wind strike is negated by your sculpt spell feature since steel wind strike is basically an AOE that makes use of precise attacks to keep team members safe from blasts.
I’d replace the feat with either fey touched, telekinetic, or resilient constitution depending on if your stat lay out and what you use your bonus actions for.
Telekinetic can give you a way to push a foe without size limitations into one of your ongoing spell effects as a bonus action. Quite powerful, and a half feat.
fey touched gives you a free casting of misty step, a +1 to a mental attribute, a second 1st level spell of the divination or enchantment school, the ability to cast both of those spells again with your spell slots and your chosen attribute, and also importantly probably freeing up a spell preparation slot for your wizard.
resilient:con makes you better at all Con Saves, concentration or not, and potentially adds a modifier to your con score to increase your maximum hitpoints. keeping your concentration by save or by having a sliver of Hitpoints can save your entire party.
as for your metamagic choices, unless your DM goes out of their way to make use of distances, distant spell and spellsnipers distance increase may not be effective at all.
•transmuted spell may be cheap and effective for your wizard to make sure your most effective damage spells are bypassing resistances.
•extended spell will likely make one of your much more mileage through the adventuring day than a momentary increase in spell range. Still one point cost.
•subtle spell would also be amazing for you, if only for counterspelling. Again, 1 point cost.
With assorted bonuses, and the rolls she had, stat layout was:
We did 4D6kh3
Holy crap that is an AMAZING stat array. You are set for life. Honestly, I'd say spend on ASI to max out INT and just go with feats the rest of the way. 12 isn't ideal CON (if I were you, I would have prioritized CON vs STR, and you'd have almost no problems, but I don't know what exact combination of Race/Class/Background, so I can't say how difficult that would have been). But still, holy crap, you are sitting on a Full House of stats there.
However, I'm going to ignore my immediate gut reaction, so, taking a moment to look back at your feats, here's my thoughts... take Infernal constitution to bring your CON to a 13. Then at your next ASI round out CON and WIS both to 14. Then just go wild with feats. Taking INT up to 20 would help a lot... but honestly you can play a full campaign at 18 and still be perfectly fine.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I definitely would have recommended a 16 con, from a min-max perspective (roleplay flaws are another thing).
But with that I recommend using an ASI to get 20 INT (can be saved to level 17). And the 4 feats I recommend are:
I think you’re all misunderstanding my point. I’m not massively concerned with min-maxing. Her stats are selected the way they are for a reason, and these specific feats are the most in-character for her.
So, to my original question once more . . .
I got six. I’m taking five. Which five out of that six?
I'd say drop Tough. It's probably the most boring choice, since it doesn't really actively do anything.
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Spell sniper really depends on the campaign and DM to be useful. Have you had a lot of encounters where you spotted the enemy from 200 feet away? If not, then you won't need it.