Per 2024 rules: “You can manipulate chaos itself to give yourself Advantage on one D20 Test before you roll the d20. Once you do so, you must cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot or finish a Long Rest before you can use this feature again.
If you do cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot before you finish a Long Rest, you automatically roll on the Wild Magic Surge table.”
I have heard two thoughts on how this should be enacted, in combat for example:
1st option:
1. Take the Magic action to cast a spell (the spell uses the slot regardless) 2. Use ToC to get advantage on the attack roll of that same spell (ex: Ray of Sickness) 3. Since the spell is being cast already, it wouldn’t trigger a wild magic surge or refresh 4. Next round, cast a spell with a spell slot to get a Wild Magic Surge (WMS) and refresh Tides of Chaos (ToC) 5. Use on next d20 test
Therefore, every other turn to potentially refresh ToC or get advantage on an D20 test.
2nd Option:
1. Declare ToC before taking the Magic action (the feature does not have a specified time in which it should occur, it only says before making the D20 roll] 2. Take the Magic action, and then roll with advantage on a leveled spell 3. A spell is therefore cast, which triggers WMS and refreshes ToC 4. Use ToC on next turn for advantage on a spell attack
The main difference being that the order in which it occurs would affect whether or not ToC refreshes every other turn for the PC or every turn
In 5e, “Any time before you regain the use of this feature, the DM can have you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher. You then regain the use of this feature.”
Since the updated rules puts more onus and control on the player to roll Wild Magic, it could seem to suggest that this would be the same timing as 5e when the DM made the determination, thus giving the PC more options to succeed to counter the fact they receive less spells than other subclasses.
You can manipulate chaos itself to give yourself Advantage on one D20 Test before you roll the d20. Once you do so, you must cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot or finish a Long Rest before you can use this feature again.
If you do cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot before you finish a Long Rest, you automatically roll on the Wild Magic Surge table.
As I said in the now disintegrated thread, if the intent was to use it before you even declare a d20 test to make, they would have used different language. "...before you roll the d20." gives the implication that the d20 test was already decided on and in the queue, as if it weren't you wouldn't have a "the" there. The timing is between declaring something that requires a d20 test and actually rolling. Otherwise, you could ToC in the morning and cast leveled spells to reset it to stock up on future advantage for whenever you feel like it. "Once you do so..." also seems to indicate that the roll has to have happened before you can reset it by casting a leveled spell.
But, I also mentioned in that thread that the way you get around this is with quickened spell. Cast firebolt, use ToC, quicken a leveled spell to reset ToC. Now ToC is ready to be used on your next turn.
As for giving the player more agency in WMS, that actually doesn't affect ToC at all. You have no more agency than you did before. The WMS just happens when you cast a leveled spell instead of when the DM feels like it when you cast a leveled spell. Your agency in both cases is casting the leveled spell.
EDIT: and it looks like the thread was NOT disintegrated. You just have a similar name and I'm blind 🤣
Per 2024 rules: “You can manipulate chaos itself to give yourself Advantage on one D20 Test before you roll the d20. Once you do so, you must cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot or finish a Long Rest before you can use this feature again.
If you do cast a Sorcerer spell with a spell slot before you finish a Long Rest, you automatically roll on the Wild Magic Surge table.”
I have heard two thoughts on how this should be enacted, in combat for example:
1st option:
1. Take the Magic action to cast a spell (the spell uses the slot regardless)
2. Use ToC to get advantage on the attack roll of that same spell (ex: Ray of Sickness)
3. Since the spell is being cast already, it wouldn’t trigger a wild magic surge or refresh
4. Next round, cast a spell with a spell slot to get a Wild Magic Surge (WMS) and refresh Tides of Chaos (ToC)
5. Use on next d20 test
Therefore, every other turn to potentially refresh ToC or get advantage on an D20 test.
2nd Option:
1. Declare ToC before taking the Magic action (the feature does not have a specified time in which it should occur, it only says before making the D20 roll]
2. Take the Magic action, and then roll with advantage on a leveled spell
3. A spell is therefore cast, which triggers WMS and refreshes ToC
4. Use ToC on next turn for advantage on a spell attack
The main difference being that the order in which it occurs would affect whether or not ToC refreshes every other turn for the PC or every turn
In 5e, “Any time before you regain the use of this feature, the DM can have you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher. You then regain the use of this feature.”
Since the updated rules puts more onus and control on the player to roll Wild Magic, it could seem to suggest that this would be the same timing as 5e when the DM made the determination, thus giving the PC more options to succeed to counter the fact they receive less spells than other subclasses.
Thoughts?
As I said in the now disintegrated thread, if the intent was to use it before you even declare a d20 test to make, they would have used different language. "...before you roll the d20." gives the implication that the d20 test was already decided on and in the queue, as if it weren't you wouldn't have a "the" there. The timing is between declaring something that requires a d20 test and actually rolling. Otherwise, you could ToC in the morning and cast leveled spells to reset it to stock up on future advantage for whenever you feel like it. "Once you do so..." also seems to indicate that the roll has to have happened before you can reset it by casting a leveled spell.
But, I also mentioned in that thread that the way you get around this is with quickened spell. Cast firebolt, use ToC, quicken a leveled spell to reset ToC. Now ToC is ready to be used on your next turn.
As for giving the player more agency in WMS, that actually doesn't affect ToC at all. You have no more agency than you did before. The WMS just happens when you cast a leveled spell instead of when the DM feels like it when you cast a leveled spell. Your agency in both cases is casting the leveled spell.
EDIT: and it looks like the thread was NOT disintegrated. You just have a similar name and I'm blind 🤣