So…Characters such as Fighters and Barbarians are very useful for dealing lots of damage to a single guy, as well as soaking damage up. BUT, throw 2 dozen low CR creatures at ‘em (equivalent CR to one guy they would ordinarily trounce) and very often they flounder, incapable of hitting more than one or two guys at a time. Extra Attack helps with this at later levels, but that takes a very long time.
So I did some investigating and I think I have an idea.
It would require some multiclassing and/or feats, but it would probably work. It makes use of the following:
1. Green-Flame Blade, the Spell/Weapon Attack
2. Twinned Spell, the Metamagic
3. Sweeping Attack, the Maneuver
You cast the spell (attacking with your weapon in the process), applying the metamagic for the flame to effect two enemies and the maneuver for the weapon to target two enemies.
This is the minimum effect of you believe that the maneuver would only effect the weapon attack and the metamagic would only effect the fire part of the spell.
For maximum effect (the maneuver and metamagic both apply to the weapon attack and the fire) your weapon strikes two enemies, bolstered with the flame. The twinned flame then leaps from the initial two enemies to four additional enemies, damaging a total of six.
A manipulation of the rules yes, but a cool concept.
Now, here’s the question: Would you allow it in your campaign, and to what extent?
GFB unfortunately isn’t eligible for twinned spell because it’s capable of targeting more than one creature. Booming Blade is, but each individual attack would require a separate manoeuvre die IMO.
When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip).
To be eligible, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell’s current level. For example, magic missile and scorching ray aren’t eligible, but ray of frost and chromatic orb are.
If you really want to be a martial and hit a bunch of enemies in the same round, multiclass with Hunter Ranger. At 3rd, 7th, and 11th level you can pick up abilities for dealing with clumped up enemies.
I would allow basically any class some form of AoE, if they invest in it, and there's an appropriate opportunity cost. Simply reintroduce cleave, if you want fighters or melees to have a form of AoE.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I would allow basically any class some form of AoE, if they invest in it, and there's an appropriate opportunity cost. Simply reintroduce cleave, if you want fighters or melees to have a form of AoE.
We'll see how they implement it. I don't entirely trust our overlords to get it right. But let's assume they get it right, until they don't =D
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
They're reintroducing it as extremely underwhelming. At times I'm tempted to write up a fighter subclass that just gets access to 4th edition powers (there's scaling differences between the editions so it's not super straightforward, but it's possible).
They're reintroducing it as extremely underwhelming.
How disappointingly unsurprising, eh? =)
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Classes like Fighter and Barbarian use tools and weaponry. To establish an AoE, the tool being used by the character must apply it. Items like ball bearings and caltrops achieve this. It is not as damaging as a 3rd level spell, but it is a starting point for inspiration. The problem the game will run into is creating a weapon or tool that is not highly special and versatile enough to be utilized on a consistent basis. For example, most parties aren't caring around a mangonel that hurls barrels containing a toxic liquid.
Generally, the way the martial characters are going to pull off AoE is through battle prep: setting traps, force the opponents into a vulnerable position, setting up specialized equipment to be used during the combat. So again, it will be very difficult to come up with highly effective AoE on the fly or with a standard encounters.
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So…Characters such as Fighters and Barbarians are very useful for dealing lots of damage to a single guy, as well as soaking damage up. BUT, throw 2 dozen low CR creatures at ‘em (equivalent CR to one guy they would ordinarily trounce) and very often they flounder, incapable of hitting more than one or two guys at a time. Extra Attack helps with this at later levels, but that takes a very long time.
So I did some investigating and I think I have an idea.
It would require some multiclassing and/or feats, but it would probably work. It makes use of the following:
1. Green-Flame Blade, the Spell/Weapon Attack
2. Twinned Spell, the Metamagic
3. Sweeping Attack, the Maneuver
You cast the spell (attacking with your weapon in the process), applying the metamagic for the flame to effect two enemies and the maneuver for the weapon to target two enemies.
This is the minimum effect of you believe that the maneuver would only effect the weapon attack and the metamagic would only effect the fire part of the spell.
For maximum effect (the maneuver and metamagic both apply to the weapon attack and the fire) your weapon strikes two enemies, bolstered with the flame. The twinned flame then leaps from the initial two enemies to four additional enemies, damaging a total of six.
A manipulation of the rules yes, but a cool concept.
Now, here’s the question: Would you allow it in your campaign, and to what extent?
GFB unfortunately isn’t eligible for twinned spell because it’s capable of targeting more than one creature. Booming Blade is, but each individual attack would require a separate manoeuvre die IMO.
Green-Flame Blade and Booming Blade have range of self and are not eligible to be Twinned.
Not every class is supposed to be good at every situation, hordes of weaker enemies is why casters have AoE spells.
If you really want to be a martial and hit a bunch of enemies in the same round, multiclass with Hunter Ranger. At 3rd, 7th, and 11th level you can pick up abilities for dealing with clumped up enemies.
I would allow basically any class some form of AoE, if they invest in it, and there's an appropriate opportunity cost. Simply reintroduce cleave, if you want fighters or melees to have a form of AoE.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
They're already reintroducing it.
Oh they are? Well good show.
We'll see how they implement it. I don't entirely trust our overlords to get it right. But let's assume they get it right, until they don't =D
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
They're reintroducing it as extremely underwhelming. At times I'm tempted to write up a fighter subclass that just gets access to 4th edition powers (there's scaling differences between the editions so it's not super straightforward, but it's possible).
How disappointingly unsurprising, eh? =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Classes like Fighter and Barbarian use tools and weaponry. To establish an AoE, the tool being used by the character must apply it. Items like ball bearings and caltrops achieve this. It is not as damaging as a 3rd level spell, but it is a starting point for inspiration. The problem the game will run into is creating a weapon or tool that is not highly special and versatile enough to be utilized on a consistent basis. For example, most parties aren't caring around a mangonel that hurls barrels containing a toxic liquid.
Generally, the way the martial characters are going to pull off AoE is through battle prep: setting traps, force the opponents into a vulnerable position, setting up specialized equipment to be used during the combat. So again, it will be very difficult to come up with highly effective AoE on the fly or with a standard encounters.