Hey guys, Im playing a Variant Human Arcane Trickster Rogue, currently at level 3. Im definitely multi classing into fighter next level, but Im going back and forth over whether I should go with Battle Master or Echo Knight. I know I won't have to make that choice for awhile, but i think its worth discussing now because I'd take a different fighting style depending on what I was choosing.
I was thinking if I take Echo Knight, I will take blindsight, as being a human I cant see in the dark, and im guessing ill be in the shadows alot using the echo.
If I was going with battle master id take superior technique to get another manoeuvre and superiority die.
What do you guys think? Have you guys played as or played with these multiclasses before? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
Hey guys, Im playing a Variant Human Arcane Trickster Rogue, currently at level 3. Im definitely multi classing into fighter next level, but Im going back and forth over whether I should go with Battle Master or Echo Knight. I know I won't have to make that choice for awhile, but i think its worth discussing now because I'd take a different fighting style depending on what I was choosing.
I was thinking if I take Echo Knight, I will take blindsight, as being a human I cant see in the dark, and im guessing ill be in the shadows alot using the echo.
If I was going with battle master id take superior technique to get another manoeuvre and superiority die.
What do you guys think? Have you guys played as or played with these multiclasses before? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
I mean the best advice anyone can offer is to play the combo you think you could have the most fun with.
The reason why I give that answer is because trying to give feedback requires to know what level the dm thinks you're going to get to and other things like that to be helpful. As a DM I've created many multiclass combinations that had to come up in my adventure for a variety of reasons and while a rogue/fighter combo isn't one I've had to use I know that rogue can benefit depending on a number of factors.
Echo Knight has a ton of utility, but it also heavily uses your bonus action each turn. This conflicts a bit with rogue, where you already have your cunning action that you're most likely going to be using at every opportunity.
Battlemaster, meanwhile, for the most part just adds on features to attacks or gives you unique reactions, etc. that don't mess with your action economy quite as much. It has less out of combat utility (although they've added a few maneuvers for social situations) but is much more easier to meld with Rogue.
Echo Knight has a ton of utility, but it also heavily uses your bonus action each turn. This conflicts a bit with rogue, where you already have your cunning action that you're most likely going to be using at every opportunity.
Battlemaster, meanwhile, for the most part just adds on features to attacks or gives you unique reactions, etc. that don't mess with your action economy quite as much. It has less out of combat utility (although they've added a few maneuvers for social situations) but is much more easier to meld with Rogue.
The Battle Master's lack of non-combat utility is also made up for by the fact that you're starting as a rogue, and an Arcane Trickster at that. I'd recommend Battle Master as well.
Another thing to consider, though, is that if you multiclass now and go straight through fighter to get your subclass, you won't be getting an ASI until level 7. Personally, I'd wait one more level before multiclassing, though if you rolled for stats and got good ones, you might not need the ASI until later.
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Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
If all your worried about is your vision just get a magic device to help that out.
Your a rogue not a front line battler work to your already established strengths instead of reaching for something new that your stats will not support the best. Work on ranged attacks from hiding.
Blindsight is a pretty weak ability. You can not see anything unless it makes noise. And only at 10 feet or closer.
As it stands a Rogue At will gain 2nd level spells at 7th level, that includes Darkvision and that lasts for 8 hours. you will not gain anything close faster.
I was thinking of taking the first level in fighter next so I can start using my shield and be stealthy, take superior technique and gain a maneuver and superiority dice (pretty much the martial adept feat), and get access to second wind. Then next level I'll take the ASI and bump my dex upto 18.
I was looking at the echo knight for RP and flavour but you're definitely right, I'm an Arcane Trickster Rogue so I really don't need any more flavour.
3rd option: Bladesinger wizard. It combos well with the arcane trickster, complementing their agile striker style perfectly, but without losing out on further spellcasting abilities.
Your a rogue not a front line battler work to your already established strengths instead of reaching for something new that your stats will not support the best. Work on ranged attacks from hiding.
Rogues can melee...
Blindsight is a pretty weak ability. You can not see anything unless it makes noise. And only at 10 feet or closer.
That's not how blindsight works. You're thinking of Bats, who have Echolocation, an ability similar to blindsight but which fails if they're deafened. Blindsight is simply the ability: "can perceive its surroundings without relying on sight, within a specific radius." Sound not needed.
As it stands a Rogue At will gain 2nd level spells at 7th level, that includes Darkvision and that lasts for 8 hours. you will not gain anything close faster.
Two things.
If he multiclasses he can absolutely positively get darkvision before 7th level. There are plenty of options.
Arcane Tricksters cannot get darkvision at 7th level without sacrificing that 1st level spell of any-school (ie shield). It isn't until 8th level you get a 2nd any-school spell. And, wasting it on darkvision of all things is criminal.
Expanding on point 1: Artificer level two can use an infusion for goggles. Twilight cleric with just one level can get 300ft of share-able darkvision. Druids can wildshape at level two and several options have darkvision. Rune knight can snag darkvision at level three. Way of shadow monks can cast darkvision at level three. Gloom stalker rangers at level three get darkvision. Shadow sorcerers get darkvision at level one. Warlocks get even better than darkvision at level two if they want. Wizards can cast Darkvision by level three.
Maybe I missed it, but why the goal of getting Darkvision or Blindsight for if he goes Echo Knight anyway? I don't see a connection. Echos have nothing to do with the dark.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Rogues are actually one of the few classes that don't benefit much at all from Action Surge as you can only Sneak Attack once per turn, NOT per Attack Action. So if you make your first attack, all you are getting is the ability to attack again with your normal damage.
So. You attack, get your sneak attack in. Blam. 1st sneak attack.
Then action surge. With this 2nd action you Ready your action to attack again after someone else does anything.
Ending your turn, someone goes next and idk moves 5ft. Blam, your readied action goes off, and you complete your action surged readied action as a reaction. Since this isn't your turn anymore, it also gets sneak attack. 2nd sneak of the round.
Same trick you use if hasted.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Rogues are actually one of the few classes that don't benefit much at all from Action Surge as you can only Sneak Attack once per turn, NOT per Attack Action. So if you make your first attack, all you are getting is the ability to attack again with your normal damage.
So. You attack, get your sneak attack in. Blam. 1st sneak attack.
Then action surge. With this 2nd action you Ready your action to attack again after someone else does anything.
Ending your turn, someone goes next and idk moves 5ft. Blam, your readied action goes off, and you complete your action surged readied action as a reaction. Since this isn't your turn anymore, it also gets sneak attack. 2nd sneak of the round.
Same trick you use if hasted.
Soo you action surged to ready an attack which than uses your reaction to essentially make an OA... which you could legally do in most cases anyways without needing to utilize action surge.... and any damage you get off a reaction would still proc sneak attack damage...
I don't see anything earned with that play... you would be better off just using the additional attack and than seeing if you could make an OA.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Rogues are actually one of the few classes that don't benefit much at all from Action Surge as you can only Sneak Attack once per turn, NOT per Attack Action. So if you make your first attack, all you are getting is the ability to attack again with your normal damage.
So. You attack, get your sneak attack in. Blam. 1st sneak attack.
Then action surge. With this 2nd action you Ready your action to attack again after someone else does anything.
Ending your turn, someone goes next and idk moves 5ft. Blam, your readied action goes off, and you complete your action surged readied action as a reaction. Since this isn't your turn anymore, it also gets sneak attack. 2nd sneak of the round.
Same trick you use if hasted.
Soo you action surged to ready an attack which than uses your reaction to essentially make an OA... which you could legally do in most cases anyways without needing to utilize action surge.... and any damage you get off a reaction would still proc sneak attack damage...
I don't see anything earned with that play... you would be better off just using the additional attack and than seeing if you could make an OA.
I guess if you somehow control the movement of the enemy and can make them provoke you're better off doing that. I'm not sure how you're accomplishing that. But it would be better, for sure, to control the enemies movement.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I love how everyone forgets action serge is usable once per rest.
I also love how everyone forgets the Op only asked what to get next level and yet everyone is posting abilities that only come into play after that. IE at first level a battle master only gets blind fighting which sucks except for specific circumstances.
As a rogue he will not be able to use heavy armor and he gets all the weapons he will ever need already.
If he uses a short bow or crossbow nothing on the battle field is out of his range. Move, shoot , hide every round. If you can not hide then dash out of range. If you can not move out of range then get out the shield and blade,
Jack your dex up as high as possible as fast as possible. Then think about a feet.
If he was going to stay in fighter until fighter 3rd level then I would take fighting style archery then arcane archer. Compliment his ranged attacks.
Everyone wants to melee fight a rogue. What does it get you? A few extra points in damage from your melee weapon. But it now puts you out front in range of melee attacks from the enemy and your the soft target now. If you wanted a front line fighter start out as a front line fighter.
Hey guys, Im playing a Variant Human Arcane Trickster Rogue, currently at level 3. Im definitely multi classing into fighter next level, but Im going back and forth over whether I should go with Battle Master or Echo Knight. I know I won't have to make that choice for awhile, but i think its worth discussing now because I'd take a different fighting style depending on what I was choosing.
I was thinking if I take Echo Knight, I will take blindsight, as being a human I cant see in the dark, and im guessing ill be in the shadows alot using the echo.
If I was going with battle master id take superior technique to get another manoeuvre and superiority die.
What do you guys think? Have you guys played as or played with these multiclasses before? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
I mean the best advice anyone can offer is to play the combo you think you could have the most fun with.
The reason why I give that answer is because trying to give feedback requires to know what level the dm thinks you're going to get to and other things like that to be helpful.
As a DM I've created many multiclass combinations that had to come up in my adventure for a variety of reasons and while a rogue/fighter combo isn't one I've had to use I know that rogue can benefit depending on a number of factors.
Echo Knight has a ton of utility, but it also heavily uses your bonus action each turn. This conflicts a bit with rogue, where you already have your cunning action that you're most likely going to be using at every opportunity.
Battlemaster, meanwhile, for the most part just adds on features to attacks or gives you unique reactions, etc. that don't mess with your action economy quite as much. It has less out of combat utility (although they've added a few maneuvers for social situations) but is much more easier to meld with Rogue.
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The Battle Master's lack of non-combat utility is also made up for by the fact that you're starting as a rogue, and an Arcane Trickster at that. I'd recommend Battle Master as well.
Another thing to consider, though, is that if you multiclass now and go straight through fighter to get your subclass, you won't be getting an ASI until level 7. Personally, I'd wait one more level before multiclassing, though if you rolled for stats and got good ones, you might not need the ASI until later.
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
If all your worried about is your vision just get a magic device to help that out.
Your a rogue not a front line battler work to your already established strengths instead of reaching for something new that your stats will not support the best.
Work on ranged attacks from hiding.
Blindsight is a pretty weak ability. You can not see anything unless it makes noise. And only at 10 feet or closer.
As it stands a Rogue At will gain 2nd level spells at 7th level, that includes Darkvision and that lasts for 8 hours.
you will not gain anything close faster.
I was thinking of taking the first level in fighter next so I can start using my shield and be stealthy, take superior technique and gain a maneuver and superiority dice (pretty much the martial adept feat), and get access to second wind. Then next level I'll take the ASI and bump my dex upto 18.
I was looking at the echo knight for RP and flavour but you're definitely right, I'm an Arcane Trickster Rogue so I really don't need any more flavour.
3rd option: Bladesinger wizard. It combos well with the arcane trickster, complementing their agile striker style perfectly, but without losing out on further spellcasting abilities.
Rogues can melee...
That's not how blindsight works. You're thinking of Bats, who have Echolocation, an ability similar to blindsight but which fails if they're deafened. Blindsight is simply the ability: "can perceive its surroundings without relying on sight, within a specific radius." Sound not needed.
Two things.
Expanding on point 1: Artificer level two can use an infusion for goggles. Twilight cleric with just one level can get 300ft of share-able darkvision. Druids can wildshape at level two and several options have darkvision. Rune knight can snag darkvision at level three. Way of shadow monks can cast darkvision at level three. Gloom stalker rangers at level three get darkvision. Shadow sorcerers get darkvision at level one. Warlocks get even better than darkvision at level two if they want. Wizards can cast Darkvision by level three.
Maybe I missed it, but why the goal of getting Darkvision or Blindsight for if he goes Echo Knight anyway? I don't see a connection. Echos have nothing to do with the dark.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
So. You attack, get your sneak attack in. Blam. 1st sneak attack.
Then action surge. With this 2nd action you Ready your action to attack again after someone else does anything.
Ending your turn, someone goes next and idk moves 5ft. Blam, your readied action goes off, and you complete your action surged readied action as a reaction. Since this isn't your turn anymore, it also gets sneak attack. 2nd sneak of the round.
Same trick you use if hasted.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Actually, Ready is not an action you can take with the extra action granted by haste.
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
Soo you action surged to ready an attack which than uses your reaction to essentially make an OA... which you could legally do in most cases anyways without needing to utilize action surge.... and any damage you get off a reaction would still proc sneak attack damage...
I don't see anything earned with that play... you would be better off just using the additional attack and than seeing if you could make an OA.
Your normal action is Readied. You attack with the hasted one.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I guess if you somehow control the movement of the enemy and can make them provoke you're better off doing that. I'm not sure how you're accomplishing that. But it would be better, for sure, to control the enemies movement.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I love how everyone forgets action serge is usable once per rest.
I also love how everyone forgets the Op only asked what to get next level and yet everyone is posting abilities that only come into play after that.
IE at first level a battle master only gets blind fighting which sucks except for specific circumstances.
As a rogue he will not be able to use heavy armor and he gets all the weapons he will ever need already.
If he uses a short bow or crossbow nothing on the battle field is out of his range. Move, shoot , hide every round. If you can not hide then dash out of range. If you can not move out of range then get out the shield and blade,
Jack your dex up as high as possible as fast as possible. Then think about a feet.
If he was going to stay in fighter until fighter 3rd level then I would take fighting style archery then arcane archer. Compliment his ranged attacks.
Everyone wants to melee fight a rogue. What does it get you? A few extra points in damage from your melee weapon. But it now puts you out front in range of melee attacks from the enemy and your the soft target now.
If you wanted a front line fighter start out as a front line fighter.
Yeah, I realized that just after I posted that
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.