D&D isn't and never has been a game system that's done well for PVP. I don't have a build to recommend, but from general advice I'd make a character who's good at ranged combat but not helpless up close. For the first few rounds especially you're better trying to keep away from enemies and letting them beat on each other rather than trying to go toe-to-toe. A caster of some sort who knows Shield, Absorb Elements, and Misty Step would be good. In most grand melee type events, it's the person who's still functional at the end rather than the person who does the most damage who wins.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Agree that D&D is not designed for PVP I think the best tactics are to have a character that is a difficult to hit.
One tactic would be to cast [Tooltip Not Found] on yourself and just watch the fun for a minute totally immune to anything they try to do to you (at level 8 they wont have disintegrate).Unless they cme to some sort of truce they should be in a pretty bad way after 10 rounds.
A two level dip in hexblade warlock can give you agonising blass and devil's sight. This allows you to hide in magical darkness so your attacks are at advantage but enemies are at disadvantage against you meaning they are more likely to attack someone else. There is the risk of this that they attack you with an AoE say fireball which could force you to lose concentration but given others wont want to be in the area of darkness that fireball will proabably just attack you when they could use it to hit multiple enemies.
Depending on what you think others will do having flight could be a huge advantage especially if you have more range than othert characters. An arakokra (or fairy, winges tiefling etc) warlock with Eldritch spear can cast dimension door 300 ft in the air and eldritch blast from up there incase someone has a longbow they could also take spell sniper and/or distant spell to be extra sure noone is in range. The issue with that is is someone does get to you with an ability to knock you prone your taking 20d6 fall damage probably enough to knock you out). It also is only worth considering if you know the battle will take place outside.
It very much depends how cruel you want to be. There are certain abilities & spells that are utterly broken in PVP because 5e is simply not designed for it. Here's some of them:
Stunning Strike -> This can utterly cripple every build that doesn't have proficiency in Con saves. However, at level 8 many optimized characters are going to have that proficiency in which case it will cost you a lot of ki to make it stick. If you're doing 1-v-1 matches Astral Monk - 8 with maxed out WIS is pretty hard to beat. Use Harengon for the race to maximize your chance of acting first to stun your enemy before they even get a turn.
Hold Person -> A level 2 spell because normally humanoid enemies are relatively rare, but in PVP nearly everyone will be a humanoid so you can utterly obliterate them with a combo of Hold Person + a high damage melee attack. I'd suggest a Harengon or Tabaxi Cleric on this one comboing Hold Person and Inflict Wounds with tons of maneuverability to one-hit-kill anyone who remains paralyzed. You're only weakness here is the dreaded Paladin!
Blink -> in a Battle Royal context, Blink is your star spell b/c they can't hurt you if you aren't there. Plus it isn't even concentration and lasts the whole fight, so you can combine it with all kinds of other spells including my personal favourite: Polymorph. There is little that is more terrifying that a Blinking T-rex or Giant Ape running around the map. I'd recommend using Sorcerer for this strategy since you can Stubly cast your Blink to avoid counterspells and Quicken that Polymorph and still use the animal's attack on the turn you cast it, for race Goblin can be good so you can Hide whenever you need to set up your spells.
Aura of Protection -> save-or-suck spells are such a crippling threat in PvP that getting a bonus to all your saving throws is incredibly powerful. The classic Hexblade-2, Paladin-6 is an amazing build anywhere, anytime. Plus any optimized PCs are going to have AC around 20 or higher which means SS/GWM is significantly weaker in PVP and in contrast Divine Smite is more powerful. I'd suggest going Devotion Paladin with an Eladrin or Shadar Kai so you can boost your attack rolls into the stratosphere to combat other optimized builds focused on AC, or take Conquest to get that oh so powerful Hold Person if you're in a 1-vs-1 situation.
Monk is one of the best characters for PvP, mostly because few players characters have good CON save.
I'm not sure about that. All PCs in my experiance have Con as their 2nd or 3rd best stat, usually with a +2 to start with. Paladins by level 8 can add their charisma, Fighters and Barbs Artificers and Sorcerers get proficiency in the saves and most other casters will want to boost their con saves for concentration. Those that choose warcaster might have a relatively low Con save (though +2 isn't terrible) though I tend to go with resilient probably getting con save to +6 at level 8. I would expect by level 8 at least half PCs would have a +5 or +6 in con saves at level 8 and most of the rest it would be between +1 and +3. On top of that many PCs have the ability to boost their rolls for example Artificers have flash of genius, fiend warlocks have dark one's own luck, war wizards can add a +4, divination wizards have portent, anyone can take the lucky feat, in team PVP the bard can give allies inspiration.....
A had a look at the Basic Rules CRs monsters, they range from a fire giant's +8 (abouth the same as a PC with +5 or +6 with some limited uses to boost it) down to +1for a cloaker (pretty much the minimum for a PC). In a campaign a party at level 8 might encounter a creature of higher CR than 8 but most of the time they will be fighting groups at least some of which have a CR considerably lower.
That’s why I think it’s better suited to PvPs, since many monsters have good CON saves and usually resistance or something similar to roll with advantage, even legendary resistance. Although we can say a +5 or +6 is a lot, at some point they will fail assuming you are attacking at least 3 times.
An optimized Wizard with Resilient and let’s say 16 CON would have +6, same a Fighter or Barbarian. An optimized Paladin with 14 CON and CHA 18-20 would have +6 / +7.
An optimized Astral Self Monk WIS SAD would have a 16 DC, which is roughly 50%-45% chance. I expect him to nail Stunning Strike a lot.
That’s why I think it’s better suited to PvPs, since many monsters have good CON saves and usually resistance or something similar to roll with advantage, even legendary resistance. Although we can say a +5 or +6 is a lot, at some point they will fail assuming you are attacking at least 3 times.
An optimized Wizard with Resilient and let’s say 16 CON would have +6, same a Fighter or Barbarian. An optimized Paladin with 14 CON and CHA 18-20 would have +6 / +7.
An optimized Astral Self Monk WIS SAD would have a 16 DC, which is roughly 50%-45% chance. I expect him to nail Stunning Strike a lot.
But in a battle royale PVP at least at the start the priorty is to survive as unscathed as possible. It is better let the wizarduse a resource to cast hold person on someone else and hit them while they are down rather than burn all your ki trying to stun someone. For the first few rounds either keep you ki or do a patient defence when it is down to 2 you then spam your stunning strike until it connects. The problem with monk is they only have therir wisdom score to protect agaist that hold person. (Until diamond soul)
But that wizard likely has a way to stay out of the monk's melee range. Can't stun what you can't punch.
No they don't, not unless they are using a 3rd level spell and their concentration for Fly. Anything on the ground is within melee range of a monk b/c of their massive maneuverability.
In 1-vs-1 tournament style PVP monks absolutely dominate (I've seen in on a couple of Westmarches Servers). In a Battle Royal monk is much less powerful, and instead I'd go Goblin + Arcane Caster for the combo of Blink + BA hide to keep yourself safe while everyone else picks each other off.
But that wizard likely has a way to stay out of the monk's melee range. Can't stun what you can't punch.
No they don't, not unless they are using a 3rd level spell and their concentration for Fly. Anything on the ground is within melee range of a monk b/c of their massive maneuverability.
Monks tend to have weak Constitution saves. I cast Levitate on the monk, then used ranged spells to hit him until candy comes out. Or cast it on yourself. Or cast Blindness/Deafness on him so that he's now got disadvantage on all attacks. Monks are very, very vulnerable to any effect that prevents them from being able to punch very well.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
But that wizard likely has a way to stay out of the monk's melee range. Can't stun what you can't punch.
No they don't, not unless they are using a 3rd level spell and their concentration for Fly. Anything on the ground is within melee range of a monk b/c of their massive maneuverability.
Monks tend to have weak Constitution saves. I cast Levitate on the monk, then used ranged spells to hit him until candy comes out. Or cast it on yourself. Or cast Blindness/Deafness on him so that he's now got disadvantage on all attacks. Monks are very, very vulnerable to any effect that prevents them from being able to punch very well.
That assumes you get to go first and the Monk is within spell range. Monks have high Dex so are more likely to act first than the wizard allowing them to stun-lock them before the wizard even gets a turn. They also tend to have high Stealth and again fast mobility allowing them to keep out of spell range / hidden until they can run up and stun-lock the wizard. Plus Even levitated a Monk easily swaps to a bow to knock out the wizard's concentration.
You are free to argue all you like, but I have played on 3 WM servers with a focus on PVP and monks are consistently one of the most dominant builds. The main competing rivals are: Echo Knight (they can nova-down pretty much anyone in 1 round), some Hexblade MCs, and the occasional Barbarian that uses feats for defense rather than offense (Moon druid gets a special mention for utterly dominating at some levels but not many).
However, in general PVP is determined by who gets to attack whom first.
In 1 on1 PVPs who wins initiative is huge as Agilemind pointed out for the wizard v Monk case. If I was choosing a wizard in 1v1 PVP I would go war wizard to add int to my initiative, I would probably double up on it and take alertbut that is also available to the monk. Range is less of an issue for casters than melee. If the combatents start more than 60 ft apart while the wizard can not cast levitate on the monk the monk also can't punch the wizard if they win initiative.
I lot is down to the starting rules most wizards cast mage armor at the start of the day and can cast shield to up their AC by 5 so the monk might be attacking at +8 to hit but against an AC of 20 or so most of there blows will miss.
The more I think about this the more I think 1 Artificer, 7 war wizard would be good for a 1v1 PVP. Proficient in Con Saves, AC of 19 with half plate with shield uping that to 24 take alert as a feat for about +11 to initiative. +4 to saves if I need it (though wouldn't be able ot cast a levelled spell the next turn). Race would probably be a flying race but could go custom linage so I could get alert at 1 and an ASI at 4.
If the combatents start more than 60 ft apart while the wizard can not cast levitate on the monk the monk also can't punch the wizard if they win initiative.
Wrong! Monk can use step of the wind to move 70-120 ft in a single turn without using their action depending on what level we are talking about.
In PVP, the most powerful combo is also the least fun to play against... that being Greater Invisibility and Flight, so fair warning, if you do this the other characters may all ignore each other to focus on you. An example of a build using this is below.
Standard Array: Str (8), Dex (12), Con (14), Int (15), Wis (13), Cha (10)
Race: Fairy (+2 Con, +1 Int)
Background: Wildspacer
Class: Artificer (1), Chronurgy Wizard (7)
ASI at 4th Wizard Level: +2 Int.
Your background gives you the Tough feat, so your hit points are: 8 + 7d6 + 16 (for Tough) + 24 (for Con) = avg 73 hit points (not bad for a wizard)
You're proficient in Constitution Saving Throws, giving you a Concentration saving throw modifier of +6.
Your AC is only 15 or 16 depending on if you're using your starting Studded Leather Armor and a shield, or Mage Armor with a shield, but you can buff it to 20 or 21 with the Shield spell.
Your racial fly speed (30ft) uses no resources and does not require concentration.
You have L4 spells, including Greater Invisibility.
Momentary Stasis allows you to take an enemy out of commission without using a spell slot.
Here's my suggestion for spell selection: The character has cantrips that use the target's AC, Strength, Constitution, Intelligence and Wisdom saving throws, so you should be able to successfully deal consistent damage once you know a particular character's weakness, even after running out of spell slots.
Artificer Cantrips:
(Cantrip) Firebolt: Solid to-hit 2d10 fire damage at 120ft.
(Cantrip) Lightning Lure: Strength save vs pulled 10 feet into the air because you're flying, then taking 2d8 Lighting damage, then falling for another 1d6.
Wizard Cantrips:
(Cantrip) Chill Touch: spell attack roll to deal 2d8 Necrotic damage and prevent the target from regaining hit points (such as from 2nd wind, cure wounds, etc)
(Cantrip) Mind Sliver: Intelligence Save vs 2d6 Psychic damage & -1d4 from the target's next saving throw.
(Cantrip) Mage Hand: Utility, potentially useful for picking up a dropped or thrown weapon to prevent the owner from getting it back.
(Cantrip) Minor Illusion: Good for creating illusory barriers that block line of sight.
(Cantrip) Sapping Sting: Constitution Save vs 2d4 Necrotic Damage & knocking the target prone.
(Cantrip) Toll the Dead: Wisdom Save vs 2d8 or 2d12 Necrotic damage
Artificer Spells Prepared:
(L1) Cure Wounds: Option to heal yourself if you take significant damage.
(L1) Faerie Fire: This enables you to make other characters more inviting targets by making them easier for everyone to hit, if you don't need the concentration for Greater Invisibility.
(L1) Sanctuary: non-concentration attempt to force enemies to not target you.
Wizard Spells Prepared:
(L1) Absorb Elements: For resistance to most elemental damages, extremely valuable, even if you're not using melee weapons.
(L1) Shield: Greatly improves your ability to avoid attack rolls by buffing your AC.
(L1) Silvery Barbs: best used when you're going to take a critical hit, forcing the other character to re-roll, and giving you advantage on your next roll.
(L2) Mirror Image: improves your ability to avoid getting hit, especially if you're not using Greater Invisibility.
(L2) See Invisibility: If someone else is invisible and it's become a problem, you can now see them, and you have spells that use their saves instead of attack rolls, so you're covered even if the DM's going by the ridiculous ruling that See Invisibility doesn't counter your disadvantage for attack rolls against the Invisible target.
(L2) Shatter: A bit of AoE damage on a L2 slot
(L3) Arshadalon's Stride: If not using concentration elsewhere, increased speed, not taking opportunity attacks, allowing you to deal a small amount of guaranteed damage to enemies with your movement, and because you're flying, you can always end your move out of melee reach in the air. This is great for if you're just having trouble landing any damage, because you could potentially deal the d6 fire damage to all other characters as a movement every turn, leaving your actions for other spells, or even dashing if needed to reach everyone.
(L3) Counterspell: essential if you're facing enemy spellcasters to prevent yourself from getting polymorphed or worse.
(L3) Fireball: the essential Dex vs 8d6 Fire damage AoE.
(L3) Thunder Step: Constitution Save to all creatures within 10ft vs 3d10 Thunder Damage, on top of you teleporting up to 90ft away.
(L4) Greater Invisibility: Invisibility is not ended by attacking or casting spells, but it does use your Concentration (If all forms of invisibility are disallowed, go with Polymorph instead)
In PVP, the most powerful combo is also the least fun to play against... that being Greater Invisibility and Flight, so fair warning, if you do this the other characters may all ignore each other to focus on you. An example of a build using this is below.
Standard Array: Str (8), Dex (12), Con (14), Int (15), Wis (13), Cha (10)
Race: Fairy (+2 Con, +1 Int)
Background: Wildspacer
Class: Artificer (1), Chronurgy Wizard (7)
ASI at 4th Wizard Level: +2 Int.
Your background gives you the Tough feat, so your hit points are: 8 + 7d6 + 16 (for Tough) + 24 (for Con) = avg 73 hit points (not bad for a wizard)
You're proficient in Constitution Saving Throws, giving you a Concentration saving throw modifier of +6.
Your AC is only 15 or 16 depending on if you're using your starting Studded Leather Armor and a shield, or Mage Armor with a shield, but you can buff it to 20 or 21 with the Shield spell.
Your racial fly speed (30ft) uses no resources and does not require concentration.
You have L4 spells, including Greater Invisibility.
Momentary Stasis allows you to take an enemy out of commission without using a spell slot.
Here's my suggestion for spell selection: The character has cantrips that use the target's AC, Strength, Constitution, Intelligence and Wisdom saving throws, so you should be able to successfully deal consistent damage once you know a particular character's weakness, even after running out of spell slots.
Artificer Cantrips:
(Cantrip) Firebolt: Solid to-hit 2d10 fire damage at 120ft.
(Cantrip) Lightning Lure: Strength save vs pulled 10 feet into the air because you're flying, then taking 2d8 Lighting damage, then falling for another 1d6.
Wizard Cantrips:
(Cantrip) Chill Touch: spell attack roll to deal 2d8 Necrotic damage and prevent the target from regaining hit points (such as from 2nd wind, cure wounds, etc)
(Cantrip) Mind Sliver: Intelligence Save vs 2d6 Psychic damage & -1d4 from the target's next saving throw.
(Cantrip) Mage Hand: Utility, potentially useful for picking up a dropped or thrown weapon to prevent the owner from getting it back.
(Cantrip) Minor Illusion: Good for creating illusory barriers that block line of sight.
(Cantrip) Sapping Sting: Constitution Save vs 2d4 Necrotic Damage & knocking the target prone.
(Cantrip) Toll the Dead: Wisdom Save vs 2d8 or 2d12 Necrotic damage
Artificer Spells Prepared:
(L1) Cure Wounds: Option to heal yourself if you take significant damage.
(L1) Faerie Fire: This enables you to make other characters more inviting targets by making them easier for everyone to hit, if you don't need the concentration for Greater Invisibility.
(L1) Sanctuary: non-concentration attempt to force enemies to not target you.
Wizard Spells Prepared:
(L1) Absorb Elements: For resistance to most elemental damages, extremely valuable, even if you're not using melee weapons.
(L1) Shield: Greatly improves your ability to avoid attack rolls by buffing your AC.
(L1) Silvery Barbs: best used when you're going to take a critical hit, forcing the other character to re-roll, and giving you advantage on your next roll.
(L2) Mirror Image: improves your ability to avoid getting hit, especially if you're not using Greater Invisibility.
(L2) See Invisibility: If someone else is invisible and it's become a problem, you can now see them, and you have spells that use their saves instead of attack rolls, so you're covered even if the DM's going by the ridiculous ruling that See Invisibility doesn't counter your disadvantage for attack rolls against the Invisible target.
(L2) Shatter: A bit of AoE damage on a L2 slot
(L3) Arshadalon's Stride: If not using concentration elsewhere, increased speed, not taking opportunity attacks, allowing you to deal a small amount of guaranteed damage to enemies with your movement, and because you're flying, you can always end your move out of melee reach in the air. This is great for if you're just having trouble landing any damage, because you could potentially deal the d6 fire damage to all other characters as a movement every turn, leaving your actions for other spells, or even dashing if needed to reach everyone.
(L3) Counterspell: essential if you're facing enemy spellcasters to prevent yourself from getting polymorphed or worse.
(L3) Fireball: the essential Dex vs 8d6 Fire damage AoE.
(L3) Thunder Step: Constitution Save to all creatures within 10ft vs 3d10 Thunder Damage, on top of you teleporting up to 90ft away.
(L4) Greater Invisibility: Invisibility is not ended by attacking or casting spells, but it does use your Concentration (If all forms of invisibility are disallowed, go with Polymorph instead)
Flight is only OP if there is no buildings on the map. As soon as the other PCs can get under cover then trying to snipe while flying & invisible becomes a stalemate.
If the combatents start more than 60 ft apart while the wizard can not cast levitate on the monk the monk also can't punch the wizard if they win initiative.
Wrong! Monk can use step of the wind to move 70-120 ft in a single turn without using their action depending on what level we are talking about.
Sorry you are correct, however we are talking level 8 so if racial speed is 30ft the monk can now do 90ft with step of the wind. So if they happen to start between 65 and 90 ft apart and the wizard wants to levitate the monk he has to use his movement to do so.
However the wizard can cas levitate of fly on himself or have a flying race which prevents the monk being able ot reach hime regardless of a saving throw.
If wanting to disable a monk entangle might be even better, a typical monk might have +2 Con and -1 Str so probably the same chance of failing the save. While monk can attempt to escape entangle on future turns that takes an action and being a strength check they can not add their proficiency so chances of success are slim (maybe 25%) if instead the monk tries to fire a bow it is at disadvantage and attacks against them are at advanatage.
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D&D isn't and never has been a game system that's done well for PVP. I don't have a build to recommend, but from general advice I'd make a character who's good at ranged combat but not helpless up close. For the first few rounds especially you're better trying to keep away from enemies and letting them beat on each other rather than trying to go toe-to-toe. A caster of some sort who knows Shield, Absorb Elements, and Misty Step would be good. In most grand melee type events, it's the person who's still functional at the end rather than the person who does the most damage who wins.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Agree that D&D is not designed for PVP I think the best tactics are to have a character that is a difficult to hit.
One tactic would be to cast [Tooltip Not Found] on yourself and just watch the fun for a minute totally immune to anything they try to do to you (at level 8 they wont have disintegrate).Unless they cme to some sort of truce they should be in a pretty bad way after 10 rounds.
A two level dip in hexblade warlock can give you agonising blass and devil's sight. This allows you to hide in magical darkness so your attacks are at advantage but enemies are at disadvantage against you meaning they are more likely to attack someone else. There is the risk of this that they attack you with an AoE say fireball which could force you to lose concentration but given others wont want to be in the area of darkness that fireball will proabably just attack you when they could use it to hit multiple enemies.
Depending on what you think others will do having flight could be a huge advantage especially if you have more range than othert characters. An arakokra (or fairy, winges tiefling etc) warlock with Eldritch spear can cast dimension door 300 ft in the air and eldritch blast from up there incase someone has a longbow they could also take spell sniper and/or distant spell to be extra sure noone is in range. The issue with that is is someone does get to you with an ability to knock you prone your taking 20d6 fall damage probably enough to knock you out). It also is only worth considering if you know the battle will take place outside.
It very much depends how cruel you want to be. There are certain abilities & spells that are utterly broken in PVP because 5e is simply not designed for it. Here's some of them:
Stunning Strike -> This can utterly cripple every build that doesn't have proficiency in Con saves. However, at level 8 many optimized characters are going to have that proficiency in which case it will cost you a lot of ki to make it stick. If you're doing 1-v-1 matches Astral Monk - 8 with maxed out WIS is pretty hard to beat. Use Harengon for the race to maximize your chance of acting first to stun your enemy before they even get a turn.
Hold Person -> A level 2 spell because normally humanoid enemies are relatively rare, but in PVP nearly everyone will be a humanoid so you can utterly obliterate them with a combo of Hold Person + a high damage melee attack. I'd suggest a Harengon or Tabaxi Cleric on this one comboing Hold Person and Inflict Wounds with tons of maneuverability to one-hit-kill anyone who remains paralyzed. You're only weakness here is the dreaded Paladin!
Blink -> in a Battle Royal context, Blink is your star spell b/c they can't hurt you if you aren't there. Plus it isn't even concentration and lasts the whole fight, so you can combine it with all kinds of other spells including my personal favourite: Polymorph. There is little that is more terrifying that a Blinking T-rex or Giant Ape running around the map. I'd recommend using Sorcerer for this strategy since you can Stubly cast your Blink to avoid counterspells and Quicken that Polymorph and still use the animal's attack on the turn you cast it, for race Goblin can be good so you can Hide whenever you need to set up your spells.
Aura of Protection -> save-or-suck spells are such a crippling threat in PvP that getting a bonus to all your saving throws is incredibly powerful. The classic Hexblade-2, Paladin-6 is an amazing build anywhere, anytime. Plus any optimized PCs are going to have AC around 20 or higher which means SS/GWM is significantly weaker in PVP and in contrast Divine Smite is more powerful. I'd suggest going Devotion Paladin with an Eladrin or Shadar Kai so you can boost your attack rolls into the stratosphere to combat other optimized builds focused on AC, or take Conquest to get that oh so powerful Hold Person if you're in a 1-vs-1 situation.
Monk is one of the best characters for PvP, mostly because few players characters have good CON save.
Hexadin 1Hex/7Pally (Ancient) /// 2Hex/6Pally(Anything Else)
All the Spell Slots High AC Huge Divine Smites Hexblades Curse.
One of my favourite builds
I'm not sure about that. All PCs in my experiance have Con as their 2nd or 3rd best stat, usually with a +2 to start with. Paladins by level 8 can add their charisma, Fighters and Barbs Artificers and Sorcerers get proficiency in the saves and most other casters will want to boost their con saves for concentration. Those that choose warcaster might have a relatively low Con save (though +2 isn't terrible) though I tend to go with resilient probably getting con save to +6 at level 8. I would expect by level 8 at least half PCs would have a +5 or +6 in con saves at level 8 and most of the rest it would be between +1 and +3. On top of that many PCs have the ability to boost their rolls for example Artificers have flash of genius, fiend warlocks have dark one's own luck, war wizards can add a +4, divination wizards have portent, anyone can take the lucky feat, in team PVP the bard can give allies inspiration.....
A had a look at the Basic Rules CRs monsters, they range from a fire giant's +8 (abouth the same as a PC with +5 or +6 with some limited uses to boost it) down to +1for a cloaker (pretty much the minimum for a PC). In a campaign a party at level 8 might encounter a creature of higher CR than 8 but most of the time they will be fighting groups at least some of which have a CR considerably lower.
That’s why I think it’s better suited to PvPs, since many monsters have good CON saves and usually resistance or something similar to roll with advantage, even legendary resistance. Although we can say a +5 or +6 is a lot, at some point they will fail assuming you are attacking at least 3 times.
An optimized Wizard with Resilient and let’s say 16 CON would have +6, same a Fighter or Barbarian. An optimized Paladin with 14 CON and CHA 18-20 would have +6 / +7.
An optimized Astral Self Monk WIS SAD would have a 16 DC, which is roughly 50%-45% chance. I expect him to nail Stunning Strike a lot.
But that wizard likely has a way to stay out of the monk's melee range. Can't stun what you can't punch.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
But in a battle royale PVP at least at the start the priorty is to survive as unscathed as possible. It is better let the wizarduse a resource to cast hold person on someone else and hit them while they are down rather than burn all your ki trying to stun someone. For the first few rounds either keep you ki or do a patient defence when it is down to 2 you then spam your stunning strike until it connects. The problem with monk is they only have therir wisdom score to protect agaist that hold person. (Until diamond soul)
No they don't, not unless they are using a 3rd level spell and their concentration for Fly. Anything on the ground is within melee range of a monk b/c of their massive maneuverability.
In 1-vs-1 tournament style PVP monks absolutely dominate (I've seen in on a couple of Westmarches Servers). In a Battle Royal monk is much less powerful, and instead I'd go Goblin + Arcane Caster for the combo of Blink + BA hide to keep yourself safe while everyone else picks each other off.
Monks tend to have weak Constitution saves. I cast Levitate on the monk, then used ranged spells to hit him until candy comes out. Or cast it on yourself. Or cast Blindness/Deafness on him so that he's now got disadvantage on all attacks. Monks are very, very vulnerable to any effect that prevents them from being able to punch very well.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
That assumes you get to go first and the Monk is within spell range. Monks have high Dex so are more likely to act first than the wizard allowing them to stun-lock them before the wizard even gets a turn. They also tend to have high Stealth and again fast mobility allowing them to keep out of spell range / hidden until they can run up and stun-lock the wizard. Plus Even levitated a Monk easily swaps to a bow to knock out the wizard's concentration.
You are free to argue all you like, but I have played on 3 WM servers with a focus on PVP and monks are consistently one of the most dominant builds. The main competing rivals are: Echo Knight (they can nova-down pretty much anyone in 1 round), some Hexblade MCs, and the occasional Barbarian that uses feats for defense rather than offense (Moon druid gets a special mention for utterly dominating at some levels but not many).
However, in general PVP is determined by who gets to attack whom first.
In 1 on1 PVPs who wins initiative is huge as Agilemind pointed out for the wizard v Monk case. If I was choosing a wizard in 1v1 PVP I would go war wizard to add int to my initiative, I would probably double up on it and take alertbut that is also available to the monk. Range is less of an issue for casters than melee. If the combatents start more than 60 ft apart while the wizard can not cast levitate on the monk the monk also can't punch the wizard if they win initiative.
I lot is down to the starting rules most wizards cast mage armor at the start of the day and can cast shield to up their AC by 5 so the monk might be attacking at +8 to hit but against an AC of 20 or so most of there blows will miss.
The more I think about this the more I think 1 Artificer, 7 war wizard would be good for a 1v1 PVP. Proficient in Con Saves, AC of 19 with half plate with shield uping that to 24 take alert as a feat for about +11 to initiative. +4 to saves if I need it (though wouldn't be able ot cast a levelled spell the next turn). Race would probably be a flying race but could go custom linage so I could get alert at 1 and an ASI at 4.
Wrong! Monk can use step of the wind to move 70-120 ft in a single turn without using their action depending on what level we are talking about.
In PVP, the most powerful combo is also the least fun to play against... that being Greater Invisibility and Flight, so fair warning, if you do this the other characters may all ignore each other to focus on you. An example of a build using this is below.
Standard Array: Str (8), Dex (12), Con (14), Int (15), Wis (13), Cha (10)
Race: Fairy (+2 Con, +1 Int)
Background: Wildspacer
Class: Artificer (1), Chronurgy Wizard (7)
ASI at 4th Wizard Level: +2 Int.
Your background gives you the Tough feat, so your hit points are: 8 + 7d6 + 16 (for Tough) + 24 (for Con) = avg 73 hit points (not bad for a wizard)
You're proficient in Constitution Saving Throws, giving you a Concentration saving throw modifier of +6.
Your AC is only 15 or 16 depending on if you're using your starting Studded Leather Armor and a shield, or Mage Armor with a shield, but you can buff it to 20 or 21 with the Shield spell.
Your racial fly speed (30ft) uses no resources and does not require concentration.
You have L4 spells, including Greater Invisibility.
Momentary Stasis allows you to take an enemy out of commission without using a spell slot.
Here's my suggestion for spell selection: The character has cantrips that use the target's AC, Strength, Constitution, Intelligence and Wisdom saving throws, so you should be able to successfully deal consistent damage once you know a particular character's weakness, even after running out of spell slots.
Artificer Cantrips:
(Cantrip) Firebolt: Solid to-hit 2d10 fire damage at 120ft.
(Cantrip) Lightning Lure: Strength save vs pulled 10 feet into the air because you're flying, then taking 2d8 Lighting damage, then falling for another 1d6.
Wizard Cantrips:
(Cantrip) Chill Touch: spell attack roll to deal 2d8 Necrotic damage and prevent the target from regaining hit points (such as from 2nd wind, cure wounds, etc)
(Cantrip) Mind Sliver: Intelligence Save vs 2d6 Psychic damage & -1d4 from the target's next saving throw.
(Cantrip) Mage Hand: Utility, potentially useful for picking up a dropped or thrown weapon to prevent the owner from getting it back.
(Cantrip) Minor Illusion: Good for creating illusory barriers that block line of sight.
(Cantrip) Sapping Sting: Constitution Save vs 2d4 Necrotic Damage & knocking the target prone.
(Cantrip) Toll the Dead: Wisdom Save vs 2d8 or 2d12 Necrotic damage
Artificer Spells Prepared:
(L1) Cure Wounds: Option to heal yourself if you take significant damage.
(L1) Faerie Fire: This enables you to make other characters more inviting targets by making them easier for everyone to hit, if you don't need the concentration for Greater Invisibility.
(L1) Sanctuary: non-concentration attempt to force enemies to not target you.
Wizard Spells Prepared:
(L1) Absorb Elements: For resistance to most elemental damages, extremely valuable, even if you're not using melee weapons.
(L1) Shield: Greatly improves your ability to avoid attack rolls by buffing your AC.
(L1) Silvery Barbs: best used when you're going to take a critical hit, forcing the other character to re-roll, and giving you advantage on your next roll.
(L2) Mirror Image: improves your ability to avoid getting hit, especially if you're not using Greater Invisibility.
(L2) See Invisibility: If someone else is invisible and it's become a problem, you can now see them, and you have spells that use their saves instead of attack rolls, so you're covered even if the DM's going by the ridiculous ruling that See Invisibility doesn't counter your disadvantage for attack rolls against the Invisible target.
(L2) Shatter: A bit of AoE damage on a L2 slot
(L3) Arshadalon's Stride: If not using concentration elsewhere, increased speed, not taking opportunity attacks, allowing you to deal a small amount of guaranteed damage to enemies with your movement, and because you're flying, you can always end your move out of melee reach in the air. This is great for if you're just having trouble landing any damage, because you could potentially deal the d6 fire damage to all other characters as a movement every turn, leaving your actions for other spells, or even dashing if needed to reach everyone.
(L3) Counterspell: essential if you're facing enemy spellcasters to prevent yourself from getting polymorphed or worse.
(L3) Fireball: the essential Dex vs 8d6 Fire damage AoE.
(L3) Thunder Step: Constitution Save to all creatures within 10ft vs 3d10 Thunder Damage, on top of you teleporting up to 90ft away.
(L4) Greater Invisibility: Invisibility is not ended by attacking or casting spells, but it does use your Concentration (If all forms of invisibility are disallowed, go with Polymorph instead)
Yeah no this seems broken, you win PvP now.
Flight is only OP if there is no buildings on the map. As soon as the other PCs can get under cover then trying to snipe while flying & invisible becomes a stalemate.
Sorry you are correct, however we are talking level 8 so if racial speed is 30ft the monk can now do 90ft with step of the wind. So if they happen to start between 65 and 90 ft apart and the wizard wants to levitate the monk he has to use his movement to do so.
However the wizard can cas levitate of fly on himself or have a flying race which prevents the monk being able ot reach hime regardless of a saving throw.
If wanting to disable a monk entangle might be even better, a typical monk might have +2 Con and -1 Str so probably the same chance of failing the save. While monk can attempt to escape entangle on future turns that takes an action and being a strength check they can not add their proficiency so chances of success are slim (maybe 25%) if instead the monk tries to fire a bow it is at disadvantage and attacks against them are at advanatage.