Looking at the monk's starting gold, they only get 5d4 gold pieces, potentially going as low as 5. This got me thinking about starting a game where each player starts like this from level 1, effectively starting from nothing. In exchange for having minimal equipment, the players would get an additional starting feat. Backgrounds can be finagled to show origin instead of the current situation (i.e. noble ran away from home or had some catastrophic setback).
What classes would be fine with this sort of limitation, and which would be extremely difficult? What house-rules would alleviate these issues?
I haven't done THAT low before, but I am currently running a campaign where I had everyone start with low money and I limited the options they could buy in a "starting shop". I've noticed that it hinders martial classes SIGNIFICANTLY more than casters. If the caster has enough to buy a focus, they're good for the rest of the game. however if all the STR fighter can afford is leather armor and a dagger, they're gonna be struggling.
Classes like barbarian, and ESPECIALLY monk are reeeeally good at this style since they don't have to worry about buying armor in order to be good, and in the monk's case, they don't even REALLY need weapons!
I think it's bad thing to do in D&D. In other games it can be fun to start out as a beggar, but in D&D the game is designed so that each class starts with a piece of equipment. And there are many reasons for this.
In any case, if you do that, what I would do is start them off as runaway slaves. I wouldn't give them any money, but I would give them opportunities here and there to get the equipment they need. A rogue could sneak into a gatehouse and steal some gear, or they could ambush a couple of slavers and split what they took. But I would give them opportunities, and make them feel that they have earned it. Starting with nothing, or what little they could buy with 4 coins, for the sake of screwing them over, doesn't strike me as being in the spirit of D&D.
Well, your str-based fighters and paladins would have it bad with no armor or shields. And really all martials would have it rough since they couldn't afford a weapon beyond a dagger or a handaxe or something, and again, no armor. So a str-based fighter is running around with a dagger and a 10 or 11 AC -- they will die quickly. Barbarians don't need armor, but are still just running around with a handaxe. Dex based martials would recover a bit faster, since they can get leather armor pretty cheap, but those first couple adventures would be rough. People who want to dual wield would have to use two daggers, so actually not too bad there.
No thieves tools for rogues undercuts a number of their class abilities.
Wizards, warlocks and sorcerers could use a staff as an arcane focus, and be more or less fine. Clerics could have a holy symbol, and druids could have a focus, but nothing else, both of them would hurt with no armor or weapons. Bards could afford a few instruments, so they might manage. Artificers wouldn't have the tools they need for spells.
In summary, monks would actually probably be fine, and everyone else would not be able to access their basic class abilities fully. The fix would be to rule they can have the basic stuff they need, but then you're back to the current system of just having your necessary equipment.
And an additional starting feat would be a big gift of a trade. After a session or two, they'll be able to have the gear they need -- assuming they live, and now they'll just be higher-powered. You are giving a permanent buff to counteract a temporary nerf.
@LeBattery: I agree that martials are hit hard due to most weapons and practically all armors being unavailable at first, but I find the class hardest to make work is the wizard. Not being able to afford the spellbook that's crucial to the class's core is highly detrimental, so I'm probably going to allow one to use paper and/or parchment sheets as a temporary substitute. I'd also allow creative options like writing on a bedroom wall or having tattoos on one's body work.
Easiest casters to get foci for are bards (2gp), druids (1gp) and artificers (1gp). Clerics, sorcerers, warlocks and wizards all cost 5gp for their cheapest foci, so collecting and keeping track of components will likely be necessary for them, at least for a little while.
@Drunkprince: Runaway slaves is definitely one route to take, but I'm leaning more towards adventurers' guild recruits. The zero-to-hero or rags-to-riches tropes are staples in storytelling. If the players don't want to play this sort of game, then we'll do something else. Communication is key!
Personally, I find it much more annoying to give players stuff and later take it all away; a local DM does this regularly, and I find it absolutely infuriating.
@Xalthu: While a standard human may have trouble as a strength-oriented, high-armor build, a tortle, loxodon or lizardfolk wouldn't struggle as much due to their alternative AC calculations; the extra feat can also be used for something like Magic Initiate for mage armor. As for weaponry, the greatclub and quarterstaff can do d8 damage and only cost 2sp. Two-weapon fighting characters can opt to use 1sp clubs to deadly effect. Ranged strength options go to 5cp darts and 5sp javelins. Finesse users would need to invest 2gp into a dagger or whip, but such characters can make great use of the 1sp sling (with a 5sp pouch and 4cp/20 bullets).
Looting dead bodies is also great. Bandits and goblins make excellent outlets for d6 swords and ranged weapons, and a single hobgoblin will likely make that estranged heavy-armor PC squeal!
I'm fine with strong PCs. So long as the players are having fun, I'm sure things will turn out alright.
By far the most valuable item of adventuring starting equipment is the wizard's spellbook which carries the base values of 50gp for the book and 300 gp worth of ink.
You could optionally start wizards with two prepared 1st level spells and just let them replace spell slots with rests which could work but with wizards at a significant starting disadvantage.
My latest (and greatest) DM had us start as prisoners. No gear, no money. Spellcasters had to look (in my case, beg) for components and martials had to look for targets to nick weapons off.
At level 4 we are just *just* getting up to level 1 gear.
It's been a blast.
Admittedly, we didn't have a wizard. I'd expect a smuggled spellbook would have been on offer, but I'm not sure.
Difficulty is up to the DM. I say this often: there is no objective balance. A weak party should get balanced fights. A strong party should get balanced fights. Those aren't the same fights. Unless you are running a pre-mades and slavishly following them to the letter, there is no level of difficulty that you, as the DM, do not choose. Know the players, know their characters, and know your options.
@Rexir2 oh you are so right! I went to check the PHB myself when I posted but honestly totally missed that monks don't actually get the x 10! Good reading skills there. woops.
i'm not a fan either...you're basically selling a feat for 10gp and gold just isn't that valuable. starting gold doesn't really mean all that much in the big scheme of things and by lvl 4 its pretty much irrelevant unless you're a wizard, want to buy a ship, or want to hire another wizard to cast a permanent teleportation circle in your basement.
My current GREYHAWK campaign had a modest start houserule, where each character started with one light armor and simple weapon, as well as all equipment from background and starting cash in silver pieces from it. I had exception for special class equipment such as a wizard's spellbook, rogue's thieves' tools and bard's music instrument.
They started with very little and the first few teasures were much more considered. Even a chain mail and a longsword were treasure welcome as they were making their characters better!
I did let my party scavenge monster's weapons and armors. I am not sure of the rule you are referring to but if weapons were not useless against characters, they should still be after collecting them. Their value might be less on the market though, when more crudely designed etc.
. I am not sure of the rule you are referring to but if weapons were not useless against characters, they should still be after collecting them. Their value might be less on the market though, when more crudely designed etc.
it used to be an Adventure League rule that everything found was effectively worthless - the rule has since been removed.
So I'm now 2 sessions in to my limited starting equip campaign, and what I've noticed is that it is REALLY good for a sandbox style game. The players basically make their own "intro quests" to get more equipment, attacking bandits for gear, taking jobs for money, exploring tombs for valuables etc... The first fight was reeeeeeal tough, but as Plaguescarred says, I saw my party get hyped over a chainmail and longsword dropped from a baddy and it felt WELL earned! Also, at least in the beginning, it gives Money a whole new value since before, most classes had everything they needed via starting equips. So I'm now seeing my party members (in character and out) actually using money as a motivator for quests.
Personal "fitting" choices" Druid They're all about nature and probably/shouldn't don't need the local economy to support their stuff. Monk Unarmed strikes and no armour
More 'Wacky' choice for someone wanting something new Swords Bard, Dragon Bloodline Sorcerer
In one of the campaigns I played, I was a Bard who had dipped 1 into sorcery to get "Dragon Bloodline" and all those tasty cantrips. Dragon Bloodline gives you scales which act as natural armour, so no need to buy any. It's also available at class level 1. This makes it viable for a low GP start (or even a low GP campaign) at just a total of level 2. I'll post more details below.
"Additionally, parts of your skin are covered by a thin sheen of dragon-like scales. When you aren't wearing Armor, your AC equals 13 + your Dexterity modifier."
This got me to 15 AC without buying any armour. Playing a Yuan-Ti gave me advantage against magic saves to offset me going to put a feat later towards piercer for another +1 Dex, bringing me to 16 AC. You can also add on a shield if they can scavenge one, bringing AC to 18 (Though with disadvantage on some checks). Personally made an extremely powerful support at level 6 (5 Sword Bard, 1 Dragon Bloodline Sorcerer). Dex on Rapier + Decent Charisma and good armour let me go in front too. I'll post image below of character.
Yes dragon bloodline sorceror is very good for a low GP start - possibly the best AC in the party, Nate spells, a D8 weapon ( staff) and can even act as the party “face” if need be. A well designed ranger might also be a very good start - leather workers tools, wood workers tools so they can make their own armour, staff and bows/arrows, innate spells ( if limited).
Looking at the monk's starting gold, they only get 5d4 gold pieces, potentially going as low as 5. This got me thinking about starting a game where each player starts like this from level 1, effectively starting from nothing. In exchange for having minimal equipment, the players would get an additional starting feat. Backgrounds can be finagled to show origin instead of the current situation (i.e. noble ran away from home or had some catastrophic setback).
What classes would be fine with this sort of limitation, and which would be extremely difficult? What house-rules would alleviate these issues?
EDIT: grammar
I haven't done THAT low before, but I am currently running a campaign where I had everyone start with low money and I limited the options they could buy in a "starting shop". I've noticed that it hinders martial classes SIGNIFICANTLY more than casters. If the caster has enough to buy a focus, they're good for the rest of the game. however if all the STR fighter can afford is leather armor and a dagger, they're gonna be struggling.
Classes like barbarian, and ESPECIALLY monk are reeeeally good at this style since they don't have to worry about buying armor in order to be good, and in the monk's case, they don't even REALLY need weapons!
I think it's bad thing to do in D&D. In other games it can be fun to start out as a beggar, but in D&D the game is designed so that each class starts with a piece of equipment. And there are many reasons for this.
In any case, if you do that, what I would do is start them off as runaway slaves. I wouldn't give them any money, but I would give them opportunities here and there to get the equipment they need. A rogue could sneak into a gatehouse and steal some gear, or they could ambush a couple of slavers and split what they took. But I would give them opportunities, and make them feel that they have earned it. Starting with nothing, or what little they could buy with 4 coins, for the sake of screwing them over, doesn't strike me as being in the spirit of D&D.
Well, your str-based fighters and paladins would have it bad with no armor or shields. And really all martials would have it rough since they couldn't afford a weapon beyond a dagger or a handaxe or something, and again, no armor. So a str-based fighter is running around with a dagger and a 10 or 11 AC -- they will die quickly. Barbarians don't need armor, but are still just running around with a handaxe. Dex based martials would recover a bit faster, since they can get leather armor pretty cheap, but those first couple adventures would be rough. People who want to dual wield would have to use two daggers, so actually not too bad there.
No thieves tools for rogues undercuts a number of their class abilities.
Wizards, warlocks and sorcerers could use a staff as an arcane focus, and be more or less fine. Clerics could have a holy symbol, and druids could have a focus, but nothing else, both of them would hurt with no armor or weapons. Bards could afford a few instruments, so they might manage. Artificers wouldn't have the tools they need for spells.
In summary, monks would actually probably be fine, and everyone else would not be able to access their basic class abilities fully. The fix would be to rule they can have the basic stuff they need, but then you're back to the current system of just having your necessary equipment.
And an additional starting feat would be a big gift of a trade. After a session or two, they'll be able to have the gear they need -- assuming they live, and now they'll just be higher-powered. You are giving a permanent buff to counteract a temporary nerf.
It is also worth noting that the starting gold is 5d4 x10, so your minimum for a Monk is actually 50 gp, still not much but definitely not 5.
Rogues, Sorcerers, Warlocks and Wizards get even less, with 4d4 x 10.
@LeBattery: I agree that martials are hit hard due to most weapons and practically all armors being unavailable at first, but I find the class hardest to make work is the wizard. Not being able to afford the spellbook that's crucial to the class's core is highly detrimental, so I'm probably going to allow one to use paper and/or parchment sheets as a temporary substitute. I'd also allow creative options like writing on a bedroom wall or having tattoos on one's body work.
Easiest casters to get foci for are bards (2gp), druids (1gp) and artificers (1gp). Clerics, sorcerers, warlocks and wizards all cost 5gp for their cheapest foci, so collecting and keeping track of components will likely be necessary for them, at least for a little while.
@Drunkprince: Runaway slaves is definitely one route to take, but I'm leaning more towards adventurers' guild recruits. The zero-to-hero or rags-to-riches tropes are staples in storytelling. If the players don't want to play this sort of game, then we'll do something else. Communication is key!
Personally, I find it much more annoying to give players stuff and later take it all away; a local DM does this regularly, and I find it absolutely infuriating.
@Xalthu: While a standard human may have trouble as a strength-oriented, high-armor build, a tortle, loxodon or lizardfolk wouldn't struggle as much due to their alternative AC calculations; the extra feat can also be used for something like Magic Initiate for mage armor. As for weaponry, the greatclub and quarterstaff can do d8 damage and only cost 2sp. Two-weapon fighting characters can opt to use 1sp clubs to deadly effect. Ranged strength options go to 5cp darts and 5sp javelins. Finesse users would need to invest 2gp into a dagger or whip, but such characters can make great use of the 1sp sling (with a 5sp pouch and 4cp/20 bullets).
Looting dead bodies is also great. Bandits and goblins make excellent outlets for d6 swords and ranged weapons, and a single hobgoblin will likely make that estranged heavy-armor PC squeal!
I'm fine with strong PCs. So long as the players are having fun, I'm sure things will turn out alright.
@Ariiss42: From the PHB:
Yeah, monks have it rough.
By far the most valuable item of adventuring starting equipment is the wizard's spellbook which carries the base values of 50gp for the book and 300 gp worth of ink.
You could optionally start wizards with two prepared 1st level spells and just let them replace spell slots with rests which could work but with wizards at a significant starting disadvantage.
My latest (and greatest) DM had us start as prisoners. No gear, no money. Spellcasters had to look (in my case, beg) for components and martials had to look for targets to nick weapons off.
At level 4 we are just *just* getting up to level 1 gear.
It's been a blast.
Admittedly, we didn't have a wizard. I'd expect a smuggled spellbook would have been on offer, but I'm not sure.
Difficulty is up to the DM. I say this often: there is no objective balance. A weak party should get balanced fights. A strong party should get balanced fights. Those aren't the same fights. Unless you are running a pre-mades and slavishly following them to the letter, there is no level of difficulty that you, as the DM, do not choose. Know the players, know their characters, and know your options.
@Rexir2 oh you are so right! I went to check the PHB myself when I posted but honestly totally missed that monks don't actually get the x 10! Good reading skills there. woops.
i'm not a fan either...you're basically selling a feat for 10gp and gold just isn't that valuable. starting gold doesn't really mean all that much in the big scheme of things and by lvl 4 its pretty much irrelevant unless you're a wizard, want to buy a ship, or want to hire another wizard to cast a permanent teleportation circle in your basement.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
My current GREYHAWK campaign had a modest start houserule, where each character started with one light armor and simple weapon, as well as all equipment from background and starting cash in silver pieces from it. I had exception for special class equipment such as a wizard's spellbook, rogue's thieves' tools and bard's music instrument.
They started with very little and the first few teasures were much more considered. Even a chain mail and a longsword were treasure welcome as they were making their characters better!
I did let my party scavenge monster's weapons and armors. I am not sure of the rule you are referring to but if weapons were not useless against characters, they should still be after collecting them. Their value might be less on the market though, when more crudely designed etc.
it used to be an Adventure League rule that everything found was effectively worthless - the rule has since been removed.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
So I'm now 2 sessions in to my limited starting equip campaign, and what I've noticed is that it is REALLY good for a sandbox style game. The players basically make their own "intro quests" to get more equipment, attacking bandits for gear, taking jobs for money, exploring tombs for valuables etc... The first fight was reeeeeeal tough, but as Plaguescarred says, I saw my party get hyped over a chainmail and longsword dropped from a baddy and it felt WELL earned! Also, at least in the beginning, it gives Money a whole new value since before, most classes had everything they needed via starting equips. So I'm now seeing my party members (in character and out) actually using money as a motivator for quests.
Monks dont get the x10 Monks literally start with 5d4 gold.
Personal "fitting" choices"
Druid
They're all about nature and probably/shouldn't don't need the local economy to support their stuff.
Monk
Unarmed strikes and no armour
More 'Wacky' choice for someone wanting something new
Swords Bard, Dragon Bloodline Sorcerer
In one of the campaigns I played, I was a Bard who had dipped 1 into sorcery to get "Dragon Bloodline" and all those tasty cantrips. Dragon Bloodline gives you scales which act as natural armour, so no need to buy any. It's also available at class level 1. This makes it viable for a low GP start (or even a low GP campaign) at just a total of level 2. I'll post more details below.
"Additionally, parts of your skin are covered by a thin sheen of dragon-like scales. When you aren't wearing Armor, your AC equals 13 + your Dexterity modifier."
This got me to 15 AC without buying any armour. Playing a Yuan-Ti gave me advantage against magic saves to offset me going to put a feat later towards piercer for another +1 Dex, bringing me to 16 AC. You can also add on a shield if they can scavenge one, bringing AC to 18 (
Though with disadvantage on some checks). Personally made an extremely powerful support at level 6 (5 Sword Bard, 1 Dragon Bloodline Sorcerer). Dex on Rapier + Decent Charisma and good armour let me go in front too. I'll post image below of character.I'm the Fish guy
Yes dragon bloodline sorceror is very good for a low GP start - possibly the best AC in the party, Nate spells, a D8 weapon ( staff) and can even act as the party “face” if need be. A well designed ranger might also be a very good start - leather workers tools, wood workers tools so they can make their own armour, staff and bows/arrows, innate spells ( if limited).
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Low GP starts are going to be more difficult in 5.24 as the classes don’t get subclass benefits like he draconic sorceror’s armor ntil L3 in 5.24.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Could go Tortle. Nat AC 17.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
not ok fighter paladin cleric BH.
the rest are ok