I see the appeal for True Strike on something like an Arcane Trickster where you only have one attack anyway and you can build around intellect, but why would you use it on an Eldritch Knight designed for up to four non-intellect based attacks (excluding Battle Smith multiclassing)?
For me a lot of the appeal of 2024 True Strike is just extra radiant damage. Using Intelligence instead of Strength or Dexterity is going to be a trade off on most melee builds, but getting an extra couple d6 is nothing to scoff at, especially against undead (and zombies have like 8 AC anyway, so you’re basically guaranteed to hit). And, you could still use your weapon mastery with the attack.
I see the appeal for True Strike on something like an Arcane Trickster where you only have one attack anyway and you can build around intellect, but why would you use it on an Eldritch Knight designed for up to four non-intellect based attacks (excluding Battle Smith multiclassing)?
At level 7, EKs can swap one attack for a cantrip, so at that point you aren't losing anything if you cast it. It's just that brief window at levels 5-6 where you have to decide if it's worth it to forego the second attack to get the radiant damage
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
True, but it’s still relying on multiple stats. On one hand it feels like I would want to focus on one attacking stat, but I suppose every little but of extra damage helps. I’m just not sold if Eldritch Knight is better than Battle Master because of this. Anyway, thanks!
It depends on your build. If you have a low INT and using your spells defensively and for utility then those bonus dice are wasted on a miss. If you have a high enough INT to hit at a good rate it's basically free damage.
I’ve heard of low intellect Eldritch Knights relying on non-attacking spells, but I can certainly understand not using True Strike without a high one. I guess that helps answer my question. Thanks!
True, but it’s still relying on multiple stats. On one hand it feels like I would want to focus on one attacking stat, but I suppose every little but of extra damage helps. I’m just not sold if Eldritch Knight is better than Battle Master because of this. Anyway, thanks!
If you build for moderate Int and high Strength or Dexterity (say, 14 vs 20) it's not typically worthwhile until tier 3. You can, however, do a EK that is mainly Int -- just take Magic Initiate (Druid) for shillelagh.
It doesn't even necessarily need to be a shillelagh gimmick. STR is good for high AC, particularly if you're looking at True Strike as your main attack cantrip so you can have use and shield with no real shuffle about hands and components- with a component pouch you just need to use your free item interaction to sheathe your weapon on the turn you intend to use your Action to cast something besides True Strike. Add in the d10 Hit Die and Second Wind and they give a cushion so you can let CON stay around 12 or so without dumping any stats and start with 16 for both STR and INT, and with the 6th level ASI you can bump INT to 18 and still have your STR on the baseline progression to 20. Or you can dump a stat to 8 and have 14 CON. Regardless of the fine points, it's not hard to have at least a +3 INT mod, +3-5 STR mod, and enough AC and HP to keep up in the frontline.
True, but it’s still relying on multiple stats. On one hand it feels like I would want to focus on one attacking stat, but I suppose every little but of extra damage helps. I’m just not sold if Eldritch Knight is better than Battle Master because of this. Anyway, thanks!
If you build for moderate Int and high Strength or Dexterity (say, 14 vs 20) it's not typically worthwhile until tier 3. You can, however, do a EK that is mainly Int -- just take Magic Initiate (Druid) for shillelagh.
My point was there's a viable space for it between the two points you described here.
True, but it’s still relying on multiple stats. On one hand it feels like I would want to focus on one attacking stat, but I suppose every little but of extra damage helps. I’m just not sold if Eldritch Knight is better than Battle Master because of this. Anyway, thanks!
If you build for moderate Int and high Strength or Dexterity (say, 14 vs 20) it's not typically worthwhile until tier 3. You can, however, do a EK that is mainly Int -- just take Magic Initiate (Druid) for shillelagh.
My point was there's a viable space for it between the two points you described here.
True, but it’s still relying on multiple stats. On one hand it feels like I would want to focus on one attacking stat, but I suppose every little but of extra damage helps. I’m just not sold if Eldritch Knight is better than Battle Master because of this. Anyway, thanks!
If you build for moderate Int and high Strength or Dexterity (say, 14 vs 20) it's not typically worthwhile until tier 3. You can, however, do a EK that is mainly Int -- just take Magic Initiate (Druid) for shillelagh.
My point was there's a viable space for it between the two points you described here.
But doesn’t shillelagh have the same problem of limiting your extra attacks until you unlock the ability to use a cantrip in place of one?
But doesn’t shillelagh have the same problem of limiting your extra attacks until you unlock the ability to use a cantrip in place of one?
No, shillelagh essentially just enchants the object you're holding. It's not like true strike (or BB/GFB) in that regard, which are attack cantrips themselves
A shillelaghed weapon is a melee weapon, and you can make extra attacks with it
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
But doesn’t shillelagh have the same problem of limiting your extra attacks until you unlock the ability to use a cantrip in place of one?
No, shillelagh essentially just enchants the object you're holding. It's not like true strike (or BB/GFB) in that regard, which are attack cantrips themselves
A shillelaghed weapon is a melee weapon, and you can make extra attacks with it
Wow! Ok thanks! I’ll have to try going that route.
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I see the appeal for True Strike on something like an Arcane Trickster where you only have one attack anyway and you can build around intellect, but why would you use it on an Eldritch Knight designed for up to four non-intellect based attacks (excluding Battle Smith multiclassing)?
For me a lot of the appeal of 2024 True Strike is just extra radiant damage. Using Intelligence instead of Strength or Dexterity is going to be a trade off on most melee builds, but getting an extra couple d6 is nothing to scoff at, especially against undead (and zombies have like 8 AC anyway, so you’re basically guaranteed to hit). And, you could still use your weapon mastery with the attack.
I see; so in builds like that it’s worth the sacrifice of switching sources of power. Ok, thanks.
At level 7, EKs can swap one attack for a cantrip, so at that point you aren't losing anything if you cast it. It's just that brief window at levels 5-6 where you have to decide if it's worth it to forego the second attack to get the radiant damage
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
True, but it’s still relying on multiple stats. On one hand it feels like I would want to focus on one attacking stat, but I suppose every little but of extra damage helps. I’m just not sold if Eldritch Knight is better than Battle Master because of this. Anyway, thanks!
It depends on your build. If you have a low INT and using your spells defensively and for utility then those bonus dice are wasted on a miss. If you have a high enough INT to hit at a good rate it's basically free damage.
I’ve heard of low intellect Eldritch Knights relying on non-attacking spells, but I can certainly understand not using True Strike without a high one. I guess that helps answer my question. Thanks!
If you build for moderate Int and high Strength or Dexterity (say, 14 vs 20) it's not typically worthwhile until tier 3. You can, however, do a EK that is mainly Int -- just take Magic Initiate (Druid) for shillelagh.
It doesn't even necessarily need to be a shillelagh gimmick. STR is good for high AC, particularly if you're looking at True Strike as your main attack cantrip so you can have use and shield with no real shuffle about hands and components- with a component pouch you just need to use your free item interaction to sheathe your weapon on the turn you intend to use your Action to cast something besides True Strike. Add in the d10 Hit Die and Second Wind and they give a cushion so you can let CON stay around 12 or so without dumping any stats and start with 16 for both STR and INT, and with the 6th level ASI you can bump INT to 18 and still have your STR on the baseline progression to 20. Or you can dump a stat to 8 and have 14 CON. Regardless of the fine points, it's not hard to have at least a +3 INT mod, +3-5 STR mod, and enough AC and HP to keep up in the frontline.
It does if your goal is to be Int primary; doing a dual-stat build is viable with the number of ASIs fighters get but isn't what I was talking about.
My point was there's a viable space for it between the two points you described here.
But isn’t Shillelagh
But doesn’t shillelagh have the same problem of limiting your extra attacks until you unlock the ability to use a cantrip in place of one?
No, shillelagh essentially just enchants the object you're holding. It's not like true strike (or BB/GFB) in that regard, which are attack cantrips themselves
A shillelaghed weapon is a melee weapon, and you can make extra attacks with it
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Wow! Ok thanks! I’ll have to try going that route.