So I'm looking at spells I don't normally (thanks to the Bard spell restrictions) and did some math on the Jump spell.
5e rules for jumping - It’s part of your movement and takes up an equal number of feet in speed. If you got a 10 foot running start, you jump your STR score in feet. Without the running start, it's half that. Max distance is your speed.
So a wizard with a STR of 10 could run 10 feet and Jump 10 feet, then run some more. A barbarian with a 20 STR could run 10, Jump 20, and finish with whatever speed she had left.
The Jump spell triples your jump distance. Your speed is still the max you can move. That wizard could run 10 feet, then jump 20 with the spell. Then he's all out of movement. Or do a standing jump of 15 feet and run another 15.
But the new Jumping action works different. You make a Strength test with Athletics or Acrobatics. If you don't get a running start, it's with disadvantage. The distance you move is equal to what you rolled. The max is still limited by your speed, even if it doesn't use any. So you could move 30 feet then jump with your action and roll the dice. If you get a 10 or better, you jump that number of feet. If not, you jump 5 feet.
So our STR 10 wizard could use his action to jump and would probably fail half the time, moving 5 feet. That's one sad action. The other half of the time he would jump between 10 and 20 feet (assuming no proficiency). The barbarian could move whatever her speed is, then use the jump action, and probably succeed. The +5 from STR and any proficiency almost guarantees it. She would then jump the distance rolled, probably somewhere between 10 and 30+ feet. Ten feet is guaranteed because of the DC. She will get that pretty consistently, but the total distance will vary greatly.
Now we have the Jump spell. All the same rules apply, assuming they don't change the wording later. Now our STR 10 wizard knows exactly what will happen, with only 2 possible outcomes . He can move his full 30 feet, then take the Jump action. Either he fails the roll and jumps 15 feet. Or he success and jumps 30. It doesn't matter what he rolls. If he got at least a 10, he jumps 30. If he fails, it's 15.
Cast it on the barbarian and you can almost guarantee a leap equal to her max speed every time.
The Jump spell isn't very fancy. The new rules for Jumping are... interesting... But with the two together, this humble spell sure is... consistent at least?
Standing by a 40 foot chasm with your 5th level barbarian or monk friend? Slap them on the back and tell them to go for it.
I once used Jump to clear a seventy-foot leap off a building to bodyslam down onto a rampaging demon. As a Tyrannosaurus Rex. I was, I believe, within the rules to do so, though I may have bungled action economy a bit. That combat was a bit of a wild soup.
Nevertheless. Jump is not a bad spell. It's simply quickly overshadowed by stronger mobility options later in the game. The Zee Bashew Jump Rule helps it greatly, though - namely, if you use Jump or some other jump-boosting ability to initiate a jump longer than your movement in one turn can account for, you complete the jump next turn if nothing disturbs you along the way. Effectively stretching a single leap over multiple 'Move' actions, allowing for boosted jumping to matter a lot more than it normally does without breaking movement limits - and allowing for cinematic moments where someone tries to snipe a jumper out of midair during their Mighty Phenomenal Leap. Give it a try sometime, it'll really help your monks pull off Cool Wuxia Shit on top of making the Jump spell much punchier.
I can't wait to spend a turn getting ready to jump, and then another turn to jump, before I can do whatever it was that I wanted to do on the other side of the gap.
I can't wait to spend a turn getting ready to jump, and then another turn to jump, before I can do whatever it was that I wanted to do on the other side of the gap.
Hahaha, sadly too true. At least it lasts a minute without concentration...
And I agree, Yurei, it's a decent low level spell. It is just, as you said, situational and quickly replaced. I don't understand why they limit magical jumping to your Speed. Normal jumping sure, but this is magic.
Wizards seems obsessed with characters landing on the ground at the end of their movement. I guess that's fine. It's easier bookkeeping. You don't have to put your models on a stand except in the case of true flying. But is it worth it?
Even if you have to land, just let people magic jump a full 60 feet, or whatever they roll. If you're a Rogue or Monk that looks like a cat, you can move much further in a turn. The spell isn't even great in the new rules. It just makes jumping not completely dangerous. The consistency is what it's good for. Not falling to your death because of a bad roll. I don't think I would ever try a normal jump over 5 feet now. Not without a really good skill bonus.
I once used Jump to clear a seventy-foot leap off a building to bodyslam down onto a rampaging demon. As a Tyrannosaurus Rex. I was, I believe, within the rules to do so, though I may have bungled action economy a bit. That combat was a bit of a wild soup.
Nevertheless. Jump is not a bad spell. It's simply quickly overshadowed by stronger mobility options later in the game. The Zee Bashew Jump Rule helps it greatly, though - namely, if you use Jump or some other jump-boosting ability to initiate a jump longer than your movement in one turn can account for, you complete the jump next turn if nothing disturbs you along the way. Effectively stretching a single leap over multiple 'Move' actions, allowing for boosted jumping to matter a lot more than it normally does without breaking movement limits - and allowing for cinematic moments where someone tries to snipe a jumper out of midair during their Mighty Phenomenal Leap. Give it a try sometime, it'll really help your monks pull off Cool Wuxia Shit on top of making the Jump spell much punchier.
I think those were the rules in 3e/3.5 and I preferred that style of jump. If a person through character abilities somehow manages to jump 500 feet, let them. heck i'm okay with it happening at faster than your normal movement, like say if the jump exceeds your movement the next turn you continue your movement and have a free bonus action to dash. The odds of it mattering is slim but if a monk or barbarian someone wrangles up a 90+ foot jump let them have it.
I can't wait to spend a turn getting ready to jump, and then another turn to jump, before I can do whatever it was that I wanted to do on the other side of the gap.
Just wanted to say that I insisted on using the Jump spell in my playtest. And it went exactly like this. Haha. It was hilariously stupid. But on the plus side, the 1 minute duration with no concentration did allow for some fun tricks in the combat that followed. Tricks that promptly also got the Bard killed for it.
I can't wait to spend a turn getting ready to jump, and then another turn to jump, before I can do whatever it was that I wanted to do on the other side of the gap.
Just wanted to say that I insisted on using the Jump spell in my playtest. And it went exactly like this. Haha. It was hilariously stupid. But on the plus side, the 1 minute duration with no concentration did allow for some fun tricks in the combat that followed. Tricks that promptly also got the Bard killed for it.
Ya I would say at this point jump is something I would cast on someone else more than myself. Though I also think with Jump being more similar to the dash action I would love to see the jump spell become a bonus action instead of an action.
That is an interesting take, Roscoeivan. I'm not sure if it's RAW. I could see them saying that the only thing the spell does is triple the distance and all other rules still apply. But I think your way would be a good way to play it.
I agree, Aquilontune. The Jump spell would have probably been much more popular if it worked more like Expeditious Retreat. Cast it with a Bonus Action and jump immediately as part of the casting. Then jump once each turn as a bonus action until it runs out.
I was just stating what i always thought. I didn't evaluate the rules terminology until after seeing the impractical conflict in this thread. I definitely second guessed my stance while reading.
I agree the wording is not clear but the only time "distance" is used is for the total. It becomes an order of operations thing that matches the RAI of other movement. until "cleared movement" is defined I would say my version fits within raw. I think cleared movement is what you can do unaided. the extra multiplier is the spell clearing it.(basically the spell is the exception to the distance rule but not the requirement) that makes sense to me but I could see other people defining "cleared movement" as the total.
Yeah I have no idea. * Giant shrug * I do like your interpretation though.
Movement rules are all wonky. The new ones don't help either. Fortunately I don't have players who try to game them. We're all pretty comfortable just going with what feels right. Did you fly about half your flying speed before landing? Then you have about half your walking speed left to move on the ground.
Literally no one has ever even used the Jump spell until we playtestested these new rules. But I feel like I would have just let them fly as far as the total said and not even remembered if it should take movement or not. It's not a great spell. If someone did something cool with it, awesome! I'm not about to lawyer some numbers in that moment.
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So I'm looking at spells I don't normally (thanks to the Bard spell restrictions) and did some math on the Jump spell.
5e rules for jumping - It’s part of your movement and takes up an equal number of feet in speed. If you got a 10 foot running start, you jump your STR score in feet. Without the running start, it's half that. Max distance is your speed.
So a wizard with a STR of 10 could run 10 feet and Jump 10 feet, then run some more. A barbarian with a 20 STR could run 10, Jump 20, and finish with whatever speed she had left.
The Jump spell triples your jump distance. Your speed is still the max you can move. That wizard could run 10 feet, then jump 20 with the spell. Then he's all out of movement. Or do a standing jump of 15 feet and run another 15.
But the new Jumping action works different. You make a Strength test with Athletics or Acrobatics. If you don't get a running start, it's with disadvantage. The distance you move is equal to what you rolled. The max is still limited by your speed, even if it doesn't use any. So you could move 30 feet then jump with your action and roll the dice. If you get a 10 or better, you jump that number of feet. If not, you jump 5 feet.
So our STR 10 wizard could use his action to jump and would probably fail half the time, moving 5 feet. That's one sad action. The other half of the time he would jump between 10 and 20 feet (assuming no proficiency). The barbarian could move whatever her speed is, then use the jump action, and probably succeed. The +5 from STR and any proficiency almost guarantees it. She would then jump the distance rolled, probably somewhere between 10 and 30+ feet. Ten feet is guaranteed because of the DC. She will get that pretty consistently, but the total distance will vary greatly.
Now we have the Jump spell. All the same rules apply, assuming they don't change the wording later. Now our STR 10 wizard knows exactly what will happen, with only 2 possible outcomes . He can move his full 30 feet, then take the Jump action. Either he fails the roll and jumps 15 feet. Or he success and jumps 30. It doesn't matter what he rolls. If he got at least a 10, he jumps 30. If he fails, it's 15.
Cast it on the barbarian and you can almost guarantee a leap equal to her max speed every time.
The Jump spell isn't very fancy. The new rules for Jumping are... interesting... But with the two together, this humble spell sure is... consistent at least?
Standing by a 40 foot chasm with your 5th level barbarian or monk friend? Slap them on the back and tell them to go for it.
And yet the most surprising part of jump will be when someone takes the spell instead of passing it up for almost anything else :D
I once used Jump to clear a seventy-foot leap off a building to bodyslam down onto a rampaging demon. As a Tyrannosaurus Rex. I was, I believe, within the rules to do so, though I may have bungled action economy a bit. That combat was a bit of a wild soup.
Nevertheless. Jump is not a bad spell. It's simply quickly overshadowed by stronger mobility options later in the game. The Zee Bashew Jump Rule helps it greatly, though - namely, if you use Jump or some other jump-boosting ability to initiate a jump longer than your movement in one turn can account for, you complete the jump next turn if nothing disturbs you along the way. Effectively stretching a single leap over multiple 'Move' actions, allowing for boosted jumping to matter a lot more than it normally does without breaking movement limits - and allowing for cinematic moments where someone tries to snipe a jumper out of midair during their Mighty Phenomenal Leap. Give it a try sometime, it'll really help your monks pull off Cool Wuxia Shit on top of making the Jump spell much punchier.
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I can't wait to spend a turn getting ready to jump, and then another turn to jump, before I can do whatever it was that I wanted to do on the other side of the gap.
Jump is the only way to play a FF-style Dragoon.
Hahaha, sadly too true. At least it lasts a minute without concentration...
And I agree, Yurei, it's a decent low level spell. It is just, as you said, situational and quickly replaced. I don't understand why they limit magical jumping to your Speed. Normal jumping sure, but this is magic.
Wizards seems obsessed with characters landing on the ground at the end of their movement. I guess that's fine. It's easier bookkeeping. You don't have to put your models on a stand except in the case of true flying. But is it worth it?
Even if you have to land, just let people magic jump a full 60 feet, or whatever they roll. If you're a Rogue or Monk that looks like a cat, you can move much further in a turn. The spell isn't even great in the new rules. It just makes jumping not completely dangerous. The consistency is what it's good for. Not falling to your death because of a bad roll. I don't think I would ever try a normal jump over 5 feet now. Not without a really good skill bonus.
P.s. Snowtworf, yes, I love that.
I think those were the rules in 3e/3.5 and I preferred that style of jump. If a person through character abilities somehow manages to jump 500 feet, let them. heck i'm okay with it happening at faster than your normal movement, like say if the jump exceeds your movement the next turn you continue your movement and have a free bonus action to dash. The odds of it mattering is slim but if a monk or barbarian someone wrangles up a 90+ foot jump let them have it.
Just wanted to say that I insisted on using the Jump spell in my playtest. And it went exactly like this. Haha. It was hilariously stupid. But on the plus side, the 1 minute duration with no concentration did allow for some fun tricks in the combat that followed. Tricks that promptly also got the Bard killed for it.
Ya I would say at this point jump is something I would cast on someone else more than myself. Though I also think with Jump being more similar to the dash action I would love to see the jump spell become a bonus action instead of an action.
For the original spell, I always assumed the distance was multiplied but the cost stayed the same.
That is an interesting take, Roscoeivan. I'm not sure if it's RAW. I could see them saying that the only thing the spell does is triple the distance and all other rules still apply. But I think your way would be a good way to play it.
I agree, Aquilontune. The Jump spell would have probably been much more popular if it worked more like Expeditious Retreat. Cast it with a Bonus Action and jump immediately as part of the casting. Then jump once each turn as a bonus action until it runs out.
I was just stating what i always thought. I didn't evaluate the rules terminology until after seeing the impractical conflict in this thread. I definitely second guessed my stance while reading.
I agree the wording is not clear but the only time "distance" is used is for the total. It becomes an order of operations thing that matches the RAI of other movement. until "cleared movement" is defined I would say my version fits within raw. I think cleared movement is what you can do unaided. the extra multiplier is the spell clearing it.(basically the spell is the exception to the distance rule but not the requirement) that makes sense to me but I could see other people defining "cleared movement" as the total.
Yeah I have no idea. * Giant shrug * I do like your interpretation though.
Movement rules are all wonky. The new ones don't help either. Fortunately I don't have players who try to game them. We're all pretty comfortable just going with what feels right. Did you fly about half your flying speed before landing? Then you have about half your walking speed left to move on the ground.
Literally no one has ever even used the Jump spell until we playtestested these new rules. But I feel like I would have just let them fly as far as the total said and not even remembered if it should take movement or not. It's not a great spell. If someone did something cool with it, awesome! I'm not about to lawyer some numbers in that moment.