The hidden condition says the following about verbal components: "The Condition ends on you immediately after any of the following occurrences: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an Attack Roll, you cast a Spell with a verbal component." The rule assumes the casting is complete and only then is the condition ended. I'd overall like it if the condition ends when you start casting a spell with a verbal coponent rather than when the casting finished. I'd prefer if stealth casting is something you should invest in rather than being something you have by default, requiring a feat or something. I've really enforced components in my games in realistic manners and it's honestly made the game a ton more fun.
It really makes sense, were verbal components meant to be stealthy? If so, why did sorcerer ever get silent spell... so yes. Verbal should break stealth at the start of casting not the completion, only feats or the surrounding creatures being deafened in some manor should counter that.
It really makes sense, were verbal components meant to be stealthy? If so, why did sorcerer ever get silent spell... so yes. Verbal should break stealth at the start of casting not the completion, only feats or the surrounding creatures being deafened in some manor should counter that.
Right. Once the spell starts, you're loudly and clearly chanting something while moving your arms around holding some focus object while in line of sight of a target. That's not real stealthy.
I think it depends on how long you think a spell takes to cast. It is probably like a word or two so I can see it not breaking stealth until after. It explains why the arcane trickster gets to impose disadvantage on spells. If it breaks it before they would not be hidden and then lose that. To historically give context in 1e a long sword had a speed factor of 6, you would need to be casting a 6th level spell or higher for a spell to be as slow as a long sword. Now rounds were much longer etc but I think a spell is supposed to be about as fast as shooting a bow etc so like shooting a bow you are revealed after it goes and not before.
So basically you say die goblin in some arcane tongue, by the time people hear it and have a chance to look where that came from the spell is already coming their way.
But wait. Hidden ends if you make a sound louder than a whisper. That includes starting to cast a spell with a verbal component normally.
But it doesn't break it before you whisper, it breaks it after. This is the same thing, its breaks after you spoke not before.
I disagree there. If you start to speak, you've made a sound as soon as the first syllable is out. And you really do have to make a sound louder than a whisper for a verbal component of a spell.
Maybe the wording could be cleaned up, but speaking immediately breaks hidden, and you speak to cast a V spell.
But wait. Hidden ends if you make a sound louder than a whisper. That includes starting to cast a spell with a verbal component normally.
But it doesn't break it before you whisper, it breaks it after. This is the same thing, its breaks after you spoke not before.
I disagree there. If you start to speak, you've made a sound as soon as the first syllable is out. And you really do have to make a sound louder than a whisper for a verbal component of a spell.
Maybe the wording could be cleaned up, but speaking immediately breaks hidden, and you speak to cast a V spell.
I guess that is one way to look at it. If bob is hidden and watching a scene and yells look out, you are basically saying he gets L out and then can be interrupted by people who were totally unaware of his presence. Does that make any sense to you on a logical stand point or does it make more sense that he'd be able to say look out before people get to react to his presence.
The hidden rules are massively over punishing as is. No need to make them even worse.
Well, Yeah, but how far along "Look out behind you, there's an orc with a thirty-four inch sword who is about to hit you in the right arm!" does hidden break? According to the playtest, hidden ends immediately after you've made a sound. I think that means after the first syllable. Definitely not after the entire exclamation.
Well, Yeah, but how far along "Look out behind you, there's an orc with a thirty-four inch sword who is about to hit you in the right arm!" does hidden break? According to the playtest, hidden ends immediately after you've made a sound. I think that means after the first syllable. Definitely not after the entire exclamation.
I'd assume its right after what a DM usually lets you say in a single burst so things take the same amount of time as a single action like throwing a dagger, so look out sure, a long sentence no. First syllable is just unrealistic and makes hiding which already has way way too many restrictions on it even worse. If you will let someone lean out of cover and throw a dagger before breaking hiding, you should let them say look out, or cast a spell.
Well, Yeah, but how far along "Look out behind you, there's an orc with a thirty-four inch sword who is about to hit you in the right arm!" does hidden break? According to the playtest, hidden ends immediately after you've made a sound. I think that means after the first syllable. Definitely not after the entire exclamation.
I'd assume its right after what a DM usually lets you say in a single burst so things take the same amount of time as a single action like throwing a dagger, so look out sure, a long sentence no. First syllable is just unrealistic and makes hiding which already has way way too many restrictions on it even worse. If you will let someone lean out of cover and throw a dagger before breaking hiding, you should let them say look out, or cast a spell.
The thing that breaks hiding with an attack is not the beginning of the toss of the dagger (assuming the target is not looking at that corner already), it's the dagger hitting them or flying by and clanging off of something making a noise.
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The hidden condition says the following about verbal components: "The Condition ends on you immediately after any of the following occurrences: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an Attack Roll, you cast a Spell with a verbal component."
The rule assumes the casting is complete and only then is the condition ended. I'd overall like it if the condition ends when you start casting a spell with a verbal coponent rather than when the casting finished. I'd prefer if stealth casting is something you should invest in rather than being something you have by default, requiring a feat or something. I've really enforced components in my games in realistic manners and it's honestly made the game a ton more fun.
Once again, a minor gripe not anything major...
It really makes sense, were verbal components meant to be stealthy? If so, why did sorcerer ever get silent spell... so yes. Verbal should break stealth at the start of casting not the completion, only feats or the surrounding creatures being deafened in some manor should counter that.
Right. Once the spell starts, you're loudly and clearly chanting something while moving your arms around holding some focus object while in line of sight of a target. That's not real stealthy.
But wait. Hidden ends if you make a sound louder than a whisper. That includes starting to cast a spell with a verbal component normally.
Exactly. Sorcs aside, there is no casting while remaining hidden.
I think it depends on how long you think a spell takes to cast. It is probably like a word or two so I can see it not breaking stealth until after. It explains why the arcane trickster gets to impose disadvantage on spells. If it breaks it before they would not be hidden and then lose that. To historically give context in 1e a long sword had a speed factor of 6, you would need to be casting a 6th level spell or higher for a spell to be as slow as a long sword. Now rounds were much longer etc but I think a spell is supposed to be about as fast as shooting a bow etc so like shooting a bow you are revealed after it goes and not before.
So basically you say die goblin in some arcane tongue, by the time people hear it and have a chance to look where that came from the spell is already coming their way.
But it doesn't break it before you whisper, it breaks it after. This is the same thing, its breaks after you spoke not before.
I disagree there. If you start to speak, you've made a sound as soon as the first syllable is out. And you really do have to make a sound louder than a whisper for a verbal component of a spell.
Maybe the wording could be cleaned up, but speaking immediately breaks hidden, and you speak to cast a V spell.
I guess that is one way to look at it. If bob is hidden and watching a scene and yells look out, you are basically saying he gets L out and then can be interrupted by people who were totally unaware of his presence. Does that make any sense to you on a logical stand point or does it make more sense that he'd be able to say look out before people get to react to his presence.
The hidden rules are massively over punishing as is. No need to make them even worse.
Well, Yeah, but how far along "Look out behind you, there's an orc with a thirty-four inch sword who is about to hit you in the right arm!" does hidden break? According to the playtest, hidden ends immediately after you've made a sound. I think that means after the first syllable. Definitely not after the entire exclamation.
I'd assume its right after what a DM usually lets you say in a single burst so things take the same amount of time as a single action like throwing a dagger, so look out sure, a long sentence no. First syllable is just unrealistic and makes hiding which already has way way too many restrictions on it even worse. If you will let someone lean out of cover and throw a dagger before breaking hiding, you should let them say look out, or cast a spell.
The thing that breaks hiding with an attack is not the beginning of the toss of the dagger (assuming the target is not looking at that corner already), it's the dagger hitting them or flying by and clanging off of something making a noise.